June 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Brainstorming Pharo4

by FranÃ§ois Stephany

As Kilon say, this is a personal wishlist. Any direction you mentioned is worth and will have impact. However, here's my personal top 5: - **Git in the image**, that would be awesome to be able integrate the gitflow way of developing in team. Easy branching/merging is a must. - **Slots**. I still need to check the current implementation and see what's possible (Property slots?) but as I have understood you've planned even more for pharo4? - **Text Editor with sensible keybindings**. - **ARM support** - **Athens** On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:06 PM, jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > From my point of view, I like the progrss on the ARM VM. > I hope to have an Android VM that works. > Also I hope to see Pharo3.0 and Pharo4.0 working on iOS. > > Another question is about two interesting plugins: Mpeg3Plugin and > CameraPlugin. > Is it possible to integrate them in the VM build ? > > Thank you guys for all the work done. > Jannik > > > 2014-06-04 20:53 GMT+02:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > >> Hi Esteban, >>> >>> As you mentioned a lot of new tools and protocols were introduced, >>> people (me included) does not well about those ones. >>> As an example I am slowly discovering announcement and now AFAIK the >>> image use three different protocols for this: change/update, observer >>> and Announcement! >>> >> Yes we know that the situation is not ideal. >> We started to move more to announcement. The problem is that some of the >> widgets >> requires the change/update. For the observer I do not know what you mean. >> >> >>> Personally I beg for a great Pharo 4.x series of iterative >>> cleaning+consolidations. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Hilaire >>> >>> Le 04/06/2014 17:36, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> A couple of weeks ago we started to plan Pharo4. This work became >>>> stagnated for many reasons, but mainly because I needed to travel to >>>> Argentina. >>>> Now I'm slowly resuming the work and I wanted to share with you what we >>>> have been talking/dreaming. >>>> In esence, we have two important drivers for this release: >>>> >>>> 1) Improving tools >>>> Turns out that we have introduced a lot of kernel improvements (opal >>>> compiler, layouts, slots, etc.) and tools are still not aware of them. Even >>>> worst: we have traits since a lot of time and our tools are still now aware >>>> enough to provide good interoperability. >>>> But not just that: we have introduced things that are not well used >>>> yet: keybindings (who do not want a better keybindings structure... >>>> coherent and editable?), spec should allow us to continue enhancing >>>> existing tools and to replace old ones. >>>> >>>> 2) Modularisation >>>> One of the fundamental ideas behind Pharo is to provide a modular >>>> environment. But well... since Pharo start to the moment, we prepared >>>> things to allow it, but still few direct effort has been made. >>>> In our dreams, Pharo should be built starting for a small kernel image >>>> and adding different modules to get a complete version. In this idea >>>> Pharo=Kernel+GUI(Morphic)+Tools. >>>> This has huge advantages (I do not think is necesary to explain them, >>>> isn't ;)?) >>>> >>>> We brainstomed around this and we get this list of issues (not all of >>>> them directly related to the objectives, but well... good stuff also :) ) >>>> >>>> Web site: >>>> - add catalog >>>> - add videos >>>> - enhance it in general >>>> >>>> Infrastructure: >>>> - support more vm platforms >>>> >>>> VM: >>>> - spur >>>> - 64bits >>>> - make vm embedable and UI independent (with SDL2 and OSWindow) >>>> >>>> Image: >>>> - Modularisation >>>> - Removing old compiler >>>> - Repackage Morphic (to allow better modularisation) >>>> - Athens (replace old bitblt) >>>> >>>> Tools >>>> - Replace changes with Ombu/Epicea >>>> - Replace sources with a better abstraction >>>> - Git support inside image (with libgit2 + tools) >>>> - Pass on Spec >>>> - Include Glamour? >>>> - Make Ring unloadable >>>> - Fonts with FreeType >>>> >>>> And lots of bugfixes :) >>>> >>>> We would like to exchange ideas with you. >>>> So, what do you think? >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> > > > -- > > ~~Jannik Laval~~ > Ãcole des Mines de Douai > Enseignant-chercheur > http://www.jannik-laval.eu > http://www.phratch.com > http://car.mines-douai.fr/ >

June 5, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] can not upload a slice to pharo40 inbox

by ClÃ©ment Bera

Recently there was a bug in public repositories in smalltalkhub (non registered users were not able to commit as if the repo was private). It might be that. 2014-06-04 22:57 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de>: > when uploading a slice, I always get the following error: > > a ZnResponse(500 Internal Server Error text/plain;charset=utf-8 30B) > > any ideas? > > Nicolai >

June 5, 2014

can not upload a slice to pharo40 inbox

by Nicolai Hess

when uploading a slice, I always get the following error: a ZnResponse(500 Internal Server Error text/plain;charset=utf-8 30B) any ideas? Nicolai

June 4, 2014

issue validation needed

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, can someone check this metacello issue? https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13305/ I really need it for continue with VM work. thanks, Esteban

June 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Brainstorming Pharo4

by jannik laval

Hi all, >From my point of view, I like the progrss on the ARM VM. I hope to have an Android VM that works. Also I hope to see Pharo3.0 and Pharo4.0 working on iOS. Another question is about two interesting plugins: Mpeg3Plugin and CameraPlugin. Is it possible to integrate them in the VM build ? Thank you guys for all the work done. Jannik 2014-06-04 20:53 GMT+02:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > Hi Esteban, >> >> As you mentioned a lot of new tools and protocols were introduced, >> people (me included) does not well about those ones. >> As an example I am slowly discovering announcement and now AFAIK the >> image use three different protocols for this: change/update, observer >> and Announcement! >> > Yes we know that the situation is not ideal. > We started to move more to announcement. The problem is that some of the > widgets > requires the change/update. For the observer I do not know what you mean. > > >> Personally I beg for a great Pharo 4.x series of iterative >> cleaning+consolidations. >> >> Thanks >> >> Hilaire >> >> Le 04/06/2014 17:36, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> A couple of weeks ago we started to plan Pharo4. This work became >>> stagnated for many reasons, but mainly because I needed to travel to >>> Argentina. >>> Now I'm slowly resuming the work and I wanted to share with you what we >>> have been talking/dreaming. >>> In esence, we have two important drivers for this release: >>> >>> 1) Improving tools >>> Turns out that we have introduced a lot of kernel improvements (opal >>> compiler, layouts, slots, etc.) and tools are still not aware of them. Even >>> worst: we have traits since a lot of time and our tools are still now aware >>> enough to provide good interoperability. >>> But not just that: we have introduced things that are not well used yet: >>> keybindings (who do not want a better keybindings structure... coherent and >>> editable?), spec should allow us to continue enhancing existing tools and >>> to replace old ones. >>> >>> 2) Modularisation >>> One of the fundamental ideas behind Pharo is to provide a modular >>> environment. But well... since Pharo start to the moment, we prepared >>> things to allow it, but still few direct effort has been made. >>> In our dreams, Pharo should be built starting for a small kernel image >>> and adding different modules to get a complete version. In this idea >>> Pharo=Kernel+GUI(Morphic)+Tools. >>> This has huge advantages (I do not think is necesary to explain them, >>> isn't ;)?) >>> >>> We brainstomed around this and we get this list of issues (not all of >>> them directly related to the objectives, but well... good stuff also :) ) >>> >>> Web site: >>> - add catalog >>> - add videos >>> - enhance it in general >>> >>> Infrastructure: >>> - support more vm platforms >>> >>> VM: >>> - spur >>> - 64bits >>> - make vm embedable and UI independent (with SDL2 and OSWindow) >>> >>> Image: >>> - Modularisation >>> - Removing old compiler >>> - Repackage Morphic (to allow better modularisation) >>> - Athens (replace old bitblt) >>> >>> Tools >>> - Replace changes with Ombu/Epicea >>> - Replace sources with a better abstraction >>> - Git support inside image (with libgit2 + tools) >>> - Pass on Spec >>> - Include Glamour? >>> - Make Ring unloadable >>> - Fonts with FreeType >>> >>> And lots of bugfixes :) >>> >>> We would like to exchange ideas with you. >>> So, what do you think? >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> >>> >>> > > -- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/

June 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Brainstorming Pharo4

by stepharo

> Hi Esteban, > > As you mentioned a lot of new tools and protocols were introduced, > people (me included) does not well about those ones. > As an example I am slowly discovering announcement and now AFAIK the > image use three different protocols for this: change/update, observer > and Announcement! Yes we know that the situation is not ideal. We started to move more to announcement. The problem is that some of the widgets requires the change/update. For the observer I do not know what you mean. > > Personally I beg for a great Pharo 4.x series of iterative > cleaning+consolidations. > > Thanks > > Hilaire > > Le 04/06/2014 17:36, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> Hi, >> >> A couple of weeks ago we started to plan Pharo4. This work became stagnated for many reasons, but mainly because I needed to travel to Argentina. >> Now I'm slowly resuming the work and I wanted to share with you what we have been talking/dreaming. >> In esence, we have two important drivers for this release: >> >> 1) Improving tools >> Turns out that we have introduced a lot of kernel improvements (opal compiler, layouts, slots, etc.) and tools are still not aware of them. Even worst: we have traits since a lot of time and our tools are still now aware enough to provide good interoperability. >> But not just that: we have introduced things that are not well used yet: keybindings (who do not want a better keybindings structure... coherent and editable?), spec should allow us to continue enhancing existing tools and to replace old ones. >> >> 2) Modularisation >> One of the fundamental ideas behind Pharo is to provide a modular environment. But well... since Pharo start to the moment, we prepared things to allow it, but still few direct effort has been made. >> In our dreams, Pharo should be built starting for a small kernel image and adding different modules to get a complete version. In this idea Pharo=Kernel+GUI(Morphic)+Tools. >> This has huge advantages (I do not think is necesary to explain them, isn't ;)?) >> >> We brainstomed around this and we get this list of issues (not all of them directly related to the objectives, but well... good stuff also :) ) >> >> Web site: >> - add catalog >> - add videos >> - enhance it in general >> >> Infrastructure: >> - support more vm platforms >> >> VM: >> - spur >> - 64bits >> - make vm embedable and UI independent (with SDL2 and OSWindow) >> >> Image: >> - Modularisation >> - Removing old compiler >> - Repackage Morphic (to allow better modularisation) >> - Athens (replace old bitblt) >> >> Tools >> - Replace changes with Ombu/Epicea >> - Replace sources with a better abstraction >> - Git support inside image (with libgit2 + tools) >> - Pass on Spec >> - Include Glamour? >> - Make Ring unloadable >> - Fonts with FreeType >> >> And lots of bugfixes :) >> >> We would like to exchange ideas with you. >> So, what do you think? >> >> Esteban >> >> >>

June 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] TextMorph on Athens

by stepharo

Igor nearly finished the new text morph (tabs are not handled correctly and probably some other features are missing). He integrated (or started to integrate it with Spec). But he started to work on virtualCPU with Max and since they make a lot of progress igor got distracted from the textEditor. Stef > Hi, > > DrGeo needs to know what is the status of TextMorph on Athens. > I have been through most of the broken parts of DrGeo@Pharo3 (really a > lot!), and this one is the last one AFAIK. > Depending on, I may write a temporary hack to bypass textmorph, but may > be it is not necessary and DrGeo can wait a bit, but I need to know. > > Thanks > > > Hilaire >

June 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Brainstorming Pharo4

by Alexandre Bergel

Hi Esteban, The list you provide looks great. The main problem I am facing is about fonts. This is not completely solved. Alexandre > Le 04-06-2014 Ã 17:36, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > Hi, > > A couple of weeks ago we started to plan Pharo4. This work became stagnated for many reasons, but mainly because I needed to travel to Argentina. > Now I'm slowly resuming the work and I wanted to share with you what we have been talking/dreaming. > In esence, we have two important drivers for this release: > > 1) Improving tools > Turns out that we have introduced a lot of kernel improvements (opal compiler, layouts, slots, etc.) and tools are still not aware of them. Even worst: we have traits since a lot of time and our tools are still now aware enough to provide good interoperability. > But not just that: we have introduced things that are not well used yet: keybindings (who do not want a better keybindings structure... coherent and editable?), spec should allow us to continue enhancing existing tools and to replace old ones. > > 2) Modularisation > One of the fundamental ideas behind Pharo is to provide a modular environment. But well... since Pharo start to the moment, we prepared things to allow it, but still few direct effort has been made. > In our dreams, Pharo should be built starting for a small kernel image and adding different modules to get a complete version. In this idea Pharo=Kernel+GUI(Morphic)+Tools. > This has huge advantages (I do not think is necesary to explain them, isn't ;)?) > > We brainstomed around this and we get this list of issues (not all of them directly related to the objectives, but well... good stuff also :) ) > > Web site: > - add catalog > - add videos > - enhance it in general > > Infrastructure: > - support more vm platforms > > VM: > - spur > - 64bits > - make vm embedable and UI independent (with SDL2 and OSWindow) > > Image: > - Modularisation > - Removing old compiler > - Repackage Morphic (to allow better modularisation) > - Athens (replace old bitblt) > > Tools > - Replace changes with Ombu/Epicea > - Replace sources with a better abstraction > - Git support inside image (with libgit2 + tools) > - Pass on Spec > - Include Glamour? > - Make Ring unloadable > - Fonts with FreeType > > And lots of bugfixes :) > > We would like to exchange ideas with you. > So, what do you think? > > Esteban > >

June 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Brainstorming Pharo4

by kilon alios

Disclaimer : The following ideas are general ideas of my own that I am not even sure if I want to pursue them, in no way should be considered recommendations for Pharo 4 and are nothing more than random thoughts that make me curious. 1) Ok this one is a kinda crazy one but here we go. I was thinking of a component based software synthesis system. "Component based" means that every pharo tool and every pharo library is divided in a set of components. So far in Pharo we have objects, the problem however with objects is that offer complete freedom. A component on the other hand can be a single object or a small selection of objects that however has severe limitations in its design, meaning it follows a specific set of rules. These would be there to make components compatible with each other which in turn leads to the next part , "software synthesis". By software synthesis I mean the ability to use components together with ease (maybe drag n drop ? ) to create new libraries and new pharo tools. So in sort brake down Pharo into small legos, legos however have a very rigid way how they can be connected together. The benefit of this system is to allow users to create their own set of tools very quickly or to customise existing ones without the need of understanding methods or classes. Ideally these components will be self documented, meaning will come with its own component comments separate from calls and method comments. 2) Unification of Documentation. Both Pillar and git integration have been quite successful, continuing on this model make this a standard way of documenting and provide users a way to view pillar documentation from inside pharo and ideally offer a pillar editor too for easily expanding the documentation always with full integration with git and github repos. 3) Morphic Cleanup. I know Spec is the new kid in the block , together with Athens and Roassal. But the general design of Morphic is by far my favourite. Instead of moving away from Morphic I would prefer to see Morphic getting a clean up , make it smaller, easier and better documented (I can help there). If possible kick out of the image morphic libraries that are not necessary and have them only as optional third libraries. I also love the idea of improving shortcuts they are a big deal for people coming from emacs and vim. On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:02 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > btwâ¦ a small clarification. > What I sent is just a brainstorm session. > That means: is something we would like, but > > a) is open to discussion, and > b) not necessarily we will have the time to implement everything we want. > For that, we also rely on the communityâ¦ :) > > cheers, > Esteban > > On 04 Jun 2014, at 14:46, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > > > If we can integrate libtorrent as well, we should be able to use our > dvcs as it is supposed to be used: peer-to-peer. Github is a fine place to > store backups :) > > > > I assume the embeddable vm work includes resurrecting coral? > > > > We can create a ConfigurationOfGlamour that avoids loading the whole of > Moose ;) > > > > Stephan > > >

June 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Brainstorming Pharo4

by Esteban Lorenzano

btwâ¦ a small clarification. What I sent is just a brainstorm session. That means: is something we would like, but a) is open to discussion, and b) not necessarily we will have the time to implement everything we want. For that, we also rely on the communityâ¦ :) cheers, Esteban On 04 Jun 2014, at 14:46, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > If we can integrate libtorrent as well, we should be able to use our dvcs as it is supposed to be used: peer-to-peer. Github is a fine place to store backups :) > > I assume the embeddable vm work includes resurrecting coral? > > We can create a ConfigurationOfGlamour that avoids loading the whole of Moose ;) > > Stephan

June 4, 2014