May 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3 and Sound

by jannik laval

Ok, it works on the latest. A 2 cents question : I am using the one-click to provide a release of Phratch, I hope to have sound working on it. Do you plan to promote latest to stable soon ? or should I modify my ci jobs to take vmLatest ? I know all the work you have and I imagine that this is not urgent. I just want to know if I have to modify my jobs. Thank you, Jannik 2014-05-04 19:17 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > try downloading the latest > > get.pharo.org/vmLatest > > I did not have time to promote latest vm to stable, but sound should be > working there (and not in current stable), for windows. > > Esteban > > On 04 May 2014, at 18:20, jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > This is the one embedded in a one-click > > Virtual Machine > --------------- > /Users/janniklaval/Desktop/Pharo3.0.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo > NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: > acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Dec 26 2013 > NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: > acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Dec 26 2013 > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: > e698e14f38003258fa49506b14307d83863a5ac1 Date: 2013-12-16 06:32:59 -0800 > By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14780 > > > 2014-05-04 11:06 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > >> did you tried the latest vm? or the regular? >> >> Esteban >> >> On 01 May 2014, at 08:18, jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I remember that the VM+ plugin were fixed. >> But these changes seems not present in Pharo3-win (installer zip). >> >> After loading PharoSound from ConfigurationBrowser, I execute this line: >> >> SoundPlayer boinkScale >> >> On MacOS it works, not on Windows >> >> Cheers >> >> -- >> >> ~~Jannik Laval~~ >> Ãcole des Mines de Douai >> Enseignant-chercheur >> http://www.jannik-laval.eu >> http://www.phratch.com >> http://car.mines-douai.fr/ >> >> >> > > > -- > > ~~Jannik Laval~~ > Ãcole des Mines de Douai > Enseignant-chercheur > http://www.jannik-laval.eu > http://www.phratch.com > http://car.mines-douai.fr/ > > > -- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/

May 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Sound input does not work

by jannik laval

My fault, it works on MacOS. 2014-05-01 15:29 GMT+02:00 jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com>: > Hello Pharoers, > > I am trying to play with sound in Pharo v3.0, and the sound input does not > work. > > I tried: > SpectrumAnalyzerMorph new openInWorld > > Cheers, > -- > > ~~Jannik Laval~~ > Ãcole des Mines de Douai > Enseignant-chercheur > http://www.jannik-laval.eu > http://www.phratch.com > http://car.mines-douai.fr/ > -- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/

May 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

by Hilaire Fernandes

May be the adjective "agile" could be plugged somewhere in this abstract, as it is "Ã la mode" and perfectly describes an intrinsic quality of Pharo. Hilaire Le 30/04/2014 19:19, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > ok, I have put the first suggestion. I can try the other one tooâ¦ as you prefer :) -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

May 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Immutability in the VM - is it hard?

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Just as a reference. Dolphin Smalltalk supports immutability. It is really handy for marking dirty objects during persistence.

May 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3 and Sound

by Esteban Lorenzano

try downloading the latest get.pharo.org/vmLatest I did not have time to promote latest vm to stable, but sound should be working there (and not in current stable), for windows. Esteban On 04 May 2014, at 18:20, jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: > This is the one embedded in a one-click > > Virtual Machine > --------------- > /Users/janniklaval/Desktop/Pharo3.0.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo > NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Dec 26 2013 > NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Dec 26 2013 > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: e698e14f38003258fa49506b14307d83863a5ac1 Date: 2013-12-16 06:32:59 -0800 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14780 > > > 2014-05-04 11:06 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > did you tried the latest vm? or the regular? > > Esteban > > On 01 May 2014, at 08:18, jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I remember that the VM+ plugin were fixed. >> But these changes seems not present in Pharo3-win (installer zip). >> >> After loading PharoSound from ConfigurationBrowser, I execute this line: >> >> SoundPlayer boinkScale >> >> On MacOS it works, not on Windows >> >> Cheers >> >> -- >> ~~Jannik Laval~~ >> Ãcole des Mines de Douai >> Enseignant-chercheur >> http://www.jannik-laval.eu >> http://www.phratch.com >> http://car.mines-douai.fr/ >> > > > > > -- > ~~Jannik Laval~~ > Ãcole des Mines de Douai > Enseignant-chercheur > http://www.jannik-laval.eu > http://www.phratch.com > http://car.mines-douai.fr/ >

May 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3 and Sound

by jannik laval

This is the one embedded in a one-click Virtual Machine --------------- /Users/janniklaval/Desktop/Pharo3.0.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Dec 26 2013 NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Dec 26 2013 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: e698e14f38003258fa49506b14307d83863a5ac1 Date: 2013-12-16 06:32:59 -0800 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14780 2014-05-04 11:06 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > did you tried the latest vm? or the regular? > > Esteban > > On 01 May 2014, at 08:18, jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I remember that the VM+ plugin were fixed. > But these changes seems not present in Pharo3-win (installer zip). > > After loading PharoSound from ConfigurationBrowser, I execute this line: > > SoundPlayer boinkScale > > On MacOS it works, not on Windows > > Cheers > > -- > > ~~Jannik Laval~~ > Ãcole des Mines de Douai > Enseignant-chercheur > http://www.jannik-laval.eu > http://www.phratch.com > http://car.mines-douai.fr/ > > > -- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/

May 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Immutability in the VM - is it hard?

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Aaron, On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Aaron Rosenzweig <aaron(a)chatnbike.com>wrote: > Hello, > > Why is the concept of âimmutabilityâ special to VisualWorks? Is it > something hard to add to other Smalltalk dialects such as Pharo or are > there other reasons for not having it? > First, the concept isn't special to VisualWorks. The VisualAge VM had it before VW (AFAIA VA had it first) and I implemented it for VisualWorks in the early 2000's to allow the GemStone implementation on VisualWorks to be as simple as it is on VisualAge. Second, I implemented immutability for the Newspeak Interpreter VM, a modified Squeak interpreter VM, in 2007 and you'll find that code in the VMMaker.oscog package in the NewspeakInterpreter class. So no, it's not hard to add. It's simply hard to find the time to port the code from the NewspeakInterpreter VM to the Cog VM. Volunteers are encouraged to have a go and I'm very happy to give advice. Right now my priority is getting the 32-bit Spur port deployed (and having implemented a functional compaction algorithm this last week I can now do so). > When I read the docs for the GOODS database client it says the following: > > âThe GOODS client uses this immutability support for change detection.â > > It goes on to say that this is only for VisualWorks. For Pharo it says > that it is generally slow to commit changes because the client to the OODB > has to spent extra time detecting change detection. I guess for VisualWorks > it is basically âfreeâ to detect a change in an object. > It's pretty cheap, but not quite free. It's quite simple. When immutability is implemented, the system uses a bit in the object header as a per-object immutability flag, and checks the bit before every assignment. An attempt to assign an inst var in an immutable object causes a send-back of attemptToAssign: theValue withIndex: instVarIndex to the immutable object being assigned. An attempt to assign an immutable object in a primitive causes that primitive to fail with a PrimErrNoModification primitive failure code. IIRC the VW VM slowed by about 6% when immutability was implemented. I hope that on modern machines the slowdown would be even less, but the extra read of the object header during inst var assignment is a significant cost. The cost for primitives is much less because bounds checking implies a read of the object header to determine an object's size anyway. HTH and pardon me for asking that in future you cc vm-dev for VM-related discussions. Thanks. > Thank you,*Aaron Rosenzweig* / Chat 'n Bike <http://www.chatnbike.com> > *e:* aaron(a)chatnbike.com *t:* (301) 956-2319 [image: Chat 'n Bike] [image: > Chat 'n Bike] > -- best, Eliot

May 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Immutability in the VM - is it hard?

by ClÃ©ment Bera

Hello, Immutability needs to be implemented in the VM. It is quite some work on the current memory manager. Few people have enough skills to do this kind of changes nicely and efficiently, and none of them had enough time to do it. However, things are now moving quicker and quicker and some work and immutability has started. Right now part of the VM work is focusing the new memory manager Spur that will be released for Pharo 4. This new memory manager will feature immutability (1 bit in the object header is now reserved for this purpose). However, although immutability is required by some projects and people, it is quite far away on the To Do list right now (firstly, the new memory manager needs to work efficiently, be stable, be in production, ...). Therefore, you may have to wait for Pharo 5 (2 years from now) to have immutability in production. Best, Clement 2014-05-04 8:40 GMT-07:00 Aaron Rosenzweig <aaron(a)chatnbike.com>: > Hello, > > Why is the concept of âimmutabilityâ special to VisualWorks? Is it > something hard to add to other Smalltalk dialects such as Pharo or are > there other reasons for not having it? > > When I read the docs for the GOODS database client it says the following: > > âThe GOODS client uses this immutability support for change detection.â > > It goes on to say that this is only for VisualWorks. For Pharo it says > that it is generally slow to commit changes because the client to the OODB > has to spent extra time detecting change detection. I guess for VisualWorks > it is basically âfreeâ to detect a change in an object. > > Thank you,*Aaron Rosenzweig* / Chat 'n Bike <http://www.chatnbike.com> > *e:* aaron(a)chatnbike.com *t:* (301) 956-2319 [image: Chat 'n Bike] [image: > Chat 'n Bike] > >

May 4, 2014

Immutability in the VM - is it hard?

by Aaron Rosenzweig

Hello, Why is the concept of âimmutabilityâ special to VisualWorks? Is it something hard to add to other Smalltalk dialects such as Pharo or are there other reasons for not having it? When I read the docs for the GOODS database client it says the following: âThe GOODS client uses this immutability support for change detection.â It goes on to say that this is only for VisualWorks. For Pharo it says that it is generally slow to commit changes because the client to the OODB has to spent extra time detecting change detection. I guess for VisualWorks it is basically âfreeâ to detect a change in an object. Thank you, AARON ROSENZWEIG / Chat 'n Bike e: aaron(a)chatnbike.com t: (301) 956-2319

May 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

by Hilaire Fernandes

It will be helpful indeed, the Forum really looks modern and handy compared to the traditionnal mailing list archive. I always use the former one, I guess the same for others. Hilaire Le 04/05/2014 10:49, Geert Claes a Ã©crit : > How about either adding a link to the online forums using > "pharo.forum.world.st" or even embed the online forums using the Nabble > embedding options in the Get Help section? > > Nabble forum embedding options: > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-Website-online-tp4757241p4757808.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

May 4, 2014