May 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

by David Astels

I agree whole heartedly. Ditch âagileâ a tool/language canât be agile anywayâ¦ agile is a characteristic of a team, their process, and their dynamic. And itâs generally meaningless now. Also, Pharo IS a Smalltalk. Thatâs the biggest thing that makes it interesting. Saying Pharo isnât Smalltalk is like saying Clojure isnât Lisp. In Clojureâs case, itâs further from classic Lisp than Pharo is from Smalltalk-80. Dave On May 15, 2014, at 1:02 PM, kmo <voxkmp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Looking at the new pharo website (itâs great, by the way), I found I was more > upset than I thought I would be by the total absence of the s-word. > > Perhaps lots of people think smalltalk is a dead language but thatâs not the > only view of smalltalk that people have out there. > > I came to pharo looking for a new, better way of developing applications. I > knew from reading about the history of computing that smalltalk was the > purest object oriented language. I knew that it had pioneered many advanced > ideas in program development. I knew that it was so far ahead of its time > that other languages were still hobbling along behind it trying to catch up. > I knew that java and C# were constantly trying to be more smalltalk-like. So > I looked for a smalltalk â ideally an open source smalltalk that I could use > on Linux. And so I came to pharo. If someone had told me that pharo was not > smalltalk, I would not have been interested, I would have though pharo was > just a niche product (like Rebol, say) - something that might simply fade > away with no history behind it. And Iâm sure there are other people like me > out there who also have heard of the smalltalk mystique. This heritage is > something to be proud of. > > So why hide what pharo is? > > Itâs not smalltalkâs reputation as /dead/ that I think is likely to put > people off. Itâs more smalltalksâs reputation as an academicâs language, > used to investigate abstruse computer science problems, but unsuitable for > mundane day-to-day development. The sort of language that cannot produce a > stand-alone executable (a myth - but pharo could do with a deployment wizard > of some kind). The sort of language that can produce incredible data > visualisations (Roassal) but is unable to put up a decent data entry screen > (Spec). (Sorry, that's unfair but I could not resist it! ) > > Rather than hide the smalltalk origins of pharo, I think they should be > shouted from the rooftops. I would add something like this to the web page. > > */Pharo is an alive-and-kicking, developer-focused, version of smalltalk â > the most beautiful idea in the history of computing./* > > Just my two cents. > > By the way, I really don't like the idea of using /agile /as a description > of pharo. Agile means almost nothing now - it's just a management buzzword > for nothing in particular. > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/a-Pharo-talk-from-a-ruby-conference-tp4756805p4759204… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

May 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

by kmo

Looking at the new pharo website (itâs great, by the way), I found I was more upset than I thought I would be by the total absence of the s-word. Perhaps lots of people think smalltalk is a dead language but thatâs not the only view of smalltalk that people have out there. I came to pharo looking for a new, better way of developing applications. I knew from reading about the history of computing that smalltalk was the purest object oriented language. I knew that it had pioneered many advanced ideas in program development. I knew that it was so far ahead of its time that other languages were still hobbling along behind it trying to catch up. I knew that java and C# were constantly trying to be more smalltalk-like. So I looked for a smalltalk â ideally an open source smalltalk that I could use on Linux. And so I came to pharo. If someone had told me that pharo was not smalltalk, I would not have been interested, I would have though pharo was just a niche product (like Rebol, say) - something that might simply fade away with no history behind it. And Iâm sure there are other people like me out there who also have heard of the smalltalk mystique. This heritage is something to be proud of. So why hide what pharo is? Itâs not smalltalkâs reputation as /dead/ that I think is likely to put people off. Itâs more smalltalksâs reputation as an academicâs language, used to investigate abstruse computer science problems, but unsuitable for mundane day-to-day development. The sort of language that cannot produce a stand-alone executable (a myth - but pharo could do with a deployment wizard of some kind). The sort of language that can produce incredible data visualisations (Roassal) but is unable to put up a decent data entry screen (Spec). (Sorry, that's unfair but I could not resist it! ) Rather than hide the smalltalk origins of pharo, I think they should be shouted from the rooftops. I would add something like this to the web page. */Pharo is an alive-and-kicking, developer-focused, version of smalltalk â the most beautiful idea in the history of computing./* Just my two cents. By the way, I really don't like the idea of using /agile /as a description of pharo. Agile means almost nothing now - it's just a management buzzword for nothing in particular. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/a-Pharo-talk-from-a-ruby-conference-tp4756805p4759204… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

May 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ConfigurationOfIDE and issue 12601

by Norbert Hartl

+ 1 Norbert Am 15.05.2014 um 18:36 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > form my POV, this THE goal of pharo 4. > Being able to build pharo from kernel and with nice configurations for all submodules. > > Weâll see :P > > Esteban > > On 15 May 2014, at 18:34, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> This would make for a beautiful goal. >> >> Doru >> >> >> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:27 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >> Pavel >> >> for Pharo 40 we would really like to start from your image and load configurations. :) >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> On 15/5/14 13:00, Pavel Krivanek wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I finally found some time to investigate why the job PharoKernel3.0-FromTopShrink-Reload that tries to load ConfigurationOfIDE to a shrinked image does not work. The raised errors are misleading. The main problem is that during atomic load of the packages in the configuration nothing is really done. No error is raised, the process writes "Finished atomic load" but no package is loaded. >> So I was looking for an update that has broken it. It was the update 30781 that integrates the issue https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12601. Still not sure why. >> >> Cheers, >> -- Pavel >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >

May 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] 32 bits and 64 bits VM

by phil＠highoctane.be

Le 15 mai 2014 18:49, "Hilaire Fernandes" <hilaire.fernandes(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > Great. > > As we are discussing about build, is it possible to compile CogVM on 64 > bits architecture as it is already the case for the interpreted SqueakVM > (https://packages.debian.org/sid/squeak-vm)? > We may want to have a statically linked version... > Hilaire > > Le 15/05/2014 18:24, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > > so yesâ¦ I integrated the fix, created a pull request, waited until validationâ¦ and then I forget to merge :S > > it should be in process to build now. > > -- > Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu > >

May 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] I made a pass on the new website

by Marcus Denker

On 15 May 2014, at 19:11, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I think Luc's version is better, but doesn't fit with the new flat look of Pharo. > Also, both icons have a MacOS Aqua look, outdated by today's fashion. > > The advantage of using PayPal's standard icon (albeit outdated), is that it is easily identifiable and associated with a donation. It's not just a button, but also an icon. > > So I'd keep PayPal's version, unless replaced by an embedded donate form. :) > > Regards, > > ps: Do people ever donate? > Not yet.. Marcus

May 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] I made a pass on the new website

by kilon alios

You may not care, but I do care . Your button is clearly better :) On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hi, > > Currently, the default Paypal button is really strange on the beautiful > Pharo website : > [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 2] > and my version is way better (to me) : > [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 3] > > but I do not care that we use my buttons or not, I just wanted to report > that we should change the default paypal button. > > #Luc > > > 2014-05-15 18:37 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > >> >> >> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: >> >>> >>> On 11 May 2014, at 17:34, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> 2014-05-11 13:21 GMT+02:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >>> >>>> >>>> On 11 May 2014, at 10:11, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Hi, >>>> > >>>> > I made a pass on the new website. >>>> > I improved a bit documentation: >>>> > - added âimmediate linksâ :P >>>> > - added pharodocs reference link >>>> > >>>> > We still need to do a lot of work, but we are making improvements. >>>> > >>>> > Ah, I also promoted Laurentâs video to first page :) >>>> > >>>> > Esteban >>>> >>>> More changes: >>>> >>>> - Donation button on >>>> http://pharo.org/get-involved >>> >>> >>> nicer buttons for donation : >>> >>> <overviewDonationButtons.png> >>> >>> >>> >>> Do they fit with the new design of the website? >>> >>> >>> Marcus >>> >>> >> No, they do not :) >> >> Doru >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > >

May 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] I made a pass on the new website

by Esteban A. Maringolo

I think Luc's version is better, but doesn't fit with the new flat look of Pharo. Also, both icons have a MacOS Aqua look, outdated by today's fashion. The advantage of using PayPal's standard icon (albeit outdated), is that it is easily identifiable and associated with a donation. It's not just a button, but also an icon. So I'd keep PayPal's version, unless replaced by an embedded donate form. :) Regards, ps: Do people ever donate? Esteban A. Maringolo 2014-05-15 13:47 GMT-03:00 Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > > Currently, the default Paypal button is really strange on the beautiful > Pharo website : > [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 2] > and my version is way better (to me) : > [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 3] > > but I do not care that we use my buttons or not, I just wanted to report > that we should change the default paypal button. > > #Luc > > > 2014-05-15 18:37 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > >> >> >> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: >> >>> >>> On 11 May 2014, at 17:34, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> 2014-05-11 13:21 GMT+02:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >>> >>>> >>>> On 11 May 2014, at 10:11, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Hi, >>>> > >>>> > I made a pass on the new website. >>>> > I improved a bit documentation: >>>> > - added âimmediate linksâ :P >>>> > - added pharodocs reference link >>>> > >>>> > We still need to do a lot of work, but we are making improvements. >>>> > >>>> > Ah, I also promoted Laurentâs video to first page :) >>>> > >>>> > Esteban >>>> >>>> More changes: >>>> >>>> - Donation button on >>>> http://pharo.org/get-involved >>> >>> >>> nicer buttons for donation : >>> >>> <overviewDonationButtons.png> >>> >>> >>> >>> Do they fit with the new design of the website? >>> >>> >>> Marcus >>> >>> >> No, they do not :) >> >> Doru >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > >

May 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ConfigurationOfIDE and issue 12601

by Luc Fabresse

+1 #Luc 2014-05-15 18:43 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Sold. We make this goal number 1. > > Doru > > > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:36 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>wrote: > >> form my POV, this THE goal of pharo 4. >> Being able to build pharo from kernel and with nice configurations for >> all submodules. >> >> Weâll see :P >> >> Esteban >> >> >> On 15 May 2014, at 18:34, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> This would make for a beautiful goal. >> >> Doru >> >> >> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:27 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >>> Pavel >>> >>> for Pharo 40 we would really like to start from your image and load >>> configurations. :) >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>> On 15/5/14 13:00, Pavel Krivanek wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I finally found some time to investigate why the job >>>> PharoKernel3.0-FromTopShrink-Reload that tries to load >>>> ConfigurationOfIDE to a shrinked image does not work. The raised errors are >>>> misleading. The main problem is that during atomic load of the packages in >>>> the configuration nothing is really done. No error is raised, the process >>>> writes "Finished atomic load" but no package is loaded. >>>> So I was looking for an update that has broken it. It was the update >>>> 30781 that integrates the issue https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12601. >>>> Still not sure why. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> -- Pavel >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

May 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] I made a pass on the new website

by Luc Fabresse

Hi, Currently, the default Paypal button is really strange on the beautiful Pharo website : [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 2] and my version is way better (to me) : [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 3] but I do not care that we use my buttons or not, I just wanted to report that we should change the default paypal button. #Luc 2014-05-15 18:37 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > > > On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > >> >> On 11 May 2014, at 17:34, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> 2014-05-11 13:21 GMT+02:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >> >>> >>> On 11 May 2014, at 10:11, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > I made a pass on the new website. >>> > I improved a bit documentation: >>> > - added âimmediate linksâ :P >>> > - added pharodocs reference link >>> > >>> > We still need to do a lot of work, but we are making improvements. >>> > >>> > Ah, I also promoted Laurentâs video to first page :) >>> > >>> > Esteban >>> >>> More changes: >>> >>> - Donation button on >>> http://pharo.org/get-involved >> >> >> nicer buttons for donation : >> >> <overviewDonationButtons.png> >> >> >> >> Do they fit with the new design of the website? >> >> >> Marcus >> >> > No, they do not :) > > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

May 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] 32 bits and 64 bits VM

by Hilaire Fernandes

Great. As we are discussing about build, is it possible to compile CogVM on 64 bits architecture as it is already the case for the interpreted SqueakVM (https://packages.debian.org/sid/squeak-vm)? Hilaire Le 15/05/2014 18:24, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > so yesâ¦ I integrated the fix, created a pull request, waited until validationâ¦ and then I forget to merge :S > it should be in process to build now. -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

May 15, 2014