May 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Intervals behaviour for negative numbers, normal or bug ?

by Eliot Miranda

On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Nicolas Cellier < nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2014-05-18 19:19 GMT+02:00 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > > >> >> >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: >> >>> >>> On 18 May 2014, at 18:50, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > On May 18, 2014, at 7:59 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >> yes I know, I was just wondering if that was normal behaviour because >>> it looks quite confusing to me. >>> > >>> > Personally I find it a natural way of expressing an empty interval. >>> to: is syntactic sugar for to:by:, and so the default of 1 for the step >>> (the by: arg) is expected. >>> > >>> > I'm dissatisfied however that I can't write $A to: $Z, or 1 to: >>> Infinity positive (or 1 to: Float inf, ugh). >>> >>> > It should be coupled to some lazy protocol (like Xtreams) otherwise any > selector is going to loop infinitely. > Of course it should. But there are other things. For examp,le, Smalltalk-80 had an InfiniteForm and it always bugged me that InfiniteForm>>extent answered SmallInteger maxVal@SmallInteger maxVal. If one changed that to answer Infinity positive@Infinity positive it was Interval code that broke. So (at least in my image) I fixed the Interval code. Intervals are really useful for modelling things, not just iterating. > >> Since there is Character>>#to: you can actually write $A to: $Z >>> although it returns an Array instead of a String, but that can be solved >>> with >>> >>> ($a to: $z) as: String >>> >>> or >>> >>> String withAll: ($a to: $z) >>> >> >> > Not that it answers a String in Squeak, because this seemed a more natural > recipient than OrderedCollection to me (OrderedCollection it previously > was). > > >> Ugh, that's really bad. So if I want to construct an interval over the >> Unicode characters this hack instantiates a large string. The whole point >> about an Interval is to compute a set of values, not construct a >> collection. If I want to construct a collection I can. >> >> I would add a subclass of Interval, say NonArithmeticInterval, that sent >> successor: step or predecessor: step so that e.g. >> Character>>successor: n >> ^Character value: self asInteger + n >> >> >> > Oh yes, that's coming directly from ASCII era when it did not matter. > ... but then also to:do: and inlined variants will have to be hacked. > Wouldn't the cost be a bit prohibitive? > The inlined versions need only to work with integers. to:by:do: is a different animal to to:by:. Once we have a good adaptive optimizer the answer can be different, but for now... > > Eliot (phone) >>> >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Eliot Miranda < >>> eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> Hi Kilon, >>> >> >>> >> On May 18, 2014, at 6:32 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> > while I was recording my Interval video tutorial I observed that >>> Interval does not behave as I would expect . Even though (1 to: 100) works >>> as I expect, (1 to: -100) does not. In case of ( 1 to: -100) it created the >>> interval object but it does not populate it with the numbers. >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> You have to say >>> >> 1 to: -100 by: -1 >>> >> >>> >> > I would expect it to populate the interval with the numbers or at >>> least fail with an error. This does not look to me like normal behaviour. >>> >> > >>> >> > (-100 to: 1) on the other hand work as expected. >>> >> > >>> >> > Any thoughts on this issue ? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> best, >> Eliot >> > > -- best, Eliot

May 18, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Intervals behaviour for negative numbers, normal or bug ?

by Nicolas Cellier

2014-05-18 19:19 GMT+02:00 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > > > > On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: > >> >> On 18 May 2014, at 18:50, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > On May 18, 2014, at 7:59 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> yes I know, I was just wondering if that was normal behaviour because >> it looks quite confusing to me. >> > >> > Personally I find it a natural way of expressing an empty interval. >> to: is syntactic sugar for to:by:, and so the default of 1 for the step >> (the by: arg) is expected. >> > >> > I'm dissatisfied however that I can't write $A to: $Z, or 1 to: >> Infinity positive (or 1 to: Float inf, ugh). >> >> It should be coupled to some lazy protocol (like Xtreams) otherwise any selector is going to loop infinitely. > Since there is Character>>#to: you can actually write $A to: $Z although >> it returns an Array instead of a String, but that can be solved with >> >> ($a to: $z) as: String >> >> or >> >> String withAll: ($a to: $z) >> > > Not that it answers a String in Squeak, because this seemed a more natural recipient than OrderedCollection to me (OrderedCollection it previously was). > Ugh, that's really bad. So if I want to construct an interval over the > Unicode characters this hack instantiates a large string. The whole point > about an Interval is to compute a set of values, not construct a > collection. If I want to construct a collection I can. > > I would add a subclass of Interval, say NonArithmeticInterval, that sent > successor: step or predecessor: step so that e.g. > Character>>successor: n > ^Character value: self asInteger + n > > > Oh yes, that's coming directly from ASCII era when it did not matter. ... but then also to:do: and inlined variants will have to be hacked. Wouldn't the cost be a bit prohibitive? > > >> > Eliot (phone) >> >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Eliot Miranda < >> eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Kilon, >> >> >> >> On May 18, 2014, at 6:32 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > while I was recording my Interval video tutorial I observed that >> Interval does not behave as I would expect . Even though (1 to: 100) works >> as I expect, (1 to: -100) does not. In case of ( 1 to: -100) it created the >> interval object but it does not populate it with the numbers. >> >> > >> >> >> >> You have to say >> >> 1 to: -100 by: -1 >> >> >> >> > I would expect it to populate the interval with the numbers or at >> least fail with an error. This does not look to me like normal behaviour. >> >> > >> >> > (-100 to: 1) on the other hand work as expected. >> >> > >> >> > Any thoughts on this issue ? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > best, > Eliot >

May 18, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Intervals behaviour for negative numbers, normal or bug ?

by Eliot Miranda

On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: > > On 18 May 2014, at 18:50, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On May 18, 2014, at 7:59 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> yes I know, I was just wondering if that was normal behaviour because > it looks quite confusing to me. > > > > Personally I find it a natural way of expressing an empty interval. to: > is syntactic sugar for to:by:, and so the default of 1 for the step (the > by: arg) is expected. > > > > I'm dissatisfied however that I can't write $A to: $Z, or 1 to: Infinity > positive (or 1 to: Float inf, ugh). > > Since there is Character>>#to: you can actually write $A to: $Z although > it returns an Array instead of a String, but that can be solved with > > ($a to: $z) as: String > > or > > String withAll: ($a to: $z) > Ugh, that's really bad. So if I want to construct an interval over the Unicode characters this hack instantiates a large string. The whole point about an Interval is to compute a set of values, not construct a collection. If I want to construct a collection I can. I would add a subclass of Interval, say NonArithmeticInterval, that sent successor: step or predecessor: step so that e.g. Character>>successor: n ^Character value: self asInteger + n > > Eliot (phone) > >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi Kilon, > >> > >> On May 18, 2014, at 6:32 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > while I was recording my Interval video tutorial I observed that > Interval does not behave as I would expect . Even though (1 to: 100) works > as I expect, (1 to: -100) does not. In case of ( 1 to: -100) it created the > interval object but it does not populate it with the numbers. > >> > > >> > >> You have to say > >> 1 to: -100 by: -1 > >> > >> > I would expect it to populate the interval with the numbers or at > least fail with an error. This does not look to me like normal behaviour. > >> > > >> > (-100 to: 1) on the other hand work as expected. > >> > > >> > Any thoughts on this issue ? > >> > >> > > > -- best, Eliot

May 18, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Intervals behaviour for negative numbers, normal or bug ?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 18 May 2014, at 18:50, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On May 18, 2014, at 7:59 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> yes I know, I was just wondering if that was normal behaviour because it looks quite confusing to me. > > Personally I find it a natural way of expressing an empty interval. to: is syntactic sugar for to:by:, and so the default of 1 for the step (the by: arg) is expected. > > I'm dissatisfied however that I can't write $A to: $Z, or 1 to: Infinity positive (or 1 to: Float inf, ugh). Since there is Character>>#to: you can actually write $A to: $Z although it returns an Array instead of a String, but that can be solved with ($a to: $z) as: String or String withAll: ($a to: $z) > Eliot (phone) >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Kilon, >> >> On May 18, 2014, at 6:32 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > while I was recording my Interval video tutorial I observed that Interval does not behave as I would expect . Even though (1 to: 100) works as I expect, (1 to: -100) does not. In case of ( 1 to: -100) it created the interval object but it does not populate it with the numbers. >> > >> >> You have to say >> 1 to: -100 by: -1 >> >> > I would expect it to populate the interval with the numbers or at least fail with an error. This does not look to me like normal behaviour. >> > >> > (-100 to: 1) on the other hand work as expected. >> > >> > Any thoughts on this issue ? >> >>

May 18, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Intervals behaviour for negative numbers, normal or bug ?

by Eliot Miranda

On May 18, 2014, at 7:59 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > yes I know, I was just wondering if that was normal behaviour because it looks quite confusing to me. Personally I find it a natural way of expressing an empty interval. to: is syntactic sugar for to:by:, and so the default of 1 for the step (the by: arg) is expected. I'm dissatisfied however that I can't write $A to: $Z, or 1 to: Infinity positive (or 1 to: Float inf, ugh). Eliot (phone) > On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Kilon, >> >> On May 18, 2014, at 6:32 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > while I was recording my Interval video tutorial I observed that Interval does not behave as I would expect . Even though (1 to: 100) works as I expect, (1 to: -100) does not. In case of ( 1 to: -100) it created the interval object but it does not populate it with the numbers. >> > >> >> You have to say >> 1 to: -100 by: -1 >> >> > I would expect it to populate the interval with the numbers or at least fail with an error. This does not look to me like normal behaviour. >> > >> > (-100 to: 1) on the other hand work as expected. >> > >> > Any thoughts on this issue ? >

May 18, 2014

Smalltalkhub project modification error

by Attila Magyar

Hi, When I try to modify my project information on Smalltakhub, I receive the following error: Oops! <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN"> <html><head> <title>502 Proxy Error</title> </head><body> Proxy Error The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server. The proxy server could not handle the request PUT /hub/projects/zeroflag/TDD-Kata </hub/projects/zeroflag/TDD-Kata> . Reason: Error reading from remote server </body></html> -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalkhub-project-modification-error-tp4759423.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

May 18, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Intervals behaviour for negative numbers, normal or bug ?

by kilon alios

yes I know, I was just wondering if that was normal behaviour because it looks quite confusing to me. On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hi Kilon, > > On May 18, 2014, at 6:32 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > while I was recording my Interval video tutorial I observed that > Interval does not behave as I would expect . Even though (1 to: 100) works > as I expect, (1 to: -100) does not. In case of ( 1 to: -100) it created the > interval object but it does not populate it with the numbers. > > > > You have to say > 1 to: -100 by: -1 > > > I would expect it to populate the interval with the numbers or at least > fail with an error. This does not look to me like normal behaviour. > > > > (-100 to: 1) on the other hand work as expected. > > > > Any thoughts on this issue ? > >

May 18, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Intervals behaviour for negative numbers, normal or bug ?

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Kilon, On May 18, 2014, at 6:32 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > while I was recording my Interval video tutorial I observed that Interval does not behave as I would expect . Even though (1 to: 100) works as I expect, (1 to: -100) does not. In case of ( 1 to: -100) it created the interval object but it does not populate it with the numbers. > You have to say 1 to: -100 by: -1 > I would expect it to populate the interval with the numbers or at least fail with an error. This does not look to me like normal behaviour. > > (-100 to: 1) on the other hand work as expected. > > Any thoughts on this issue ?

May 18, 2014

Intervals behaviour for negative numbers, normal or bug ?

by kilon alios

while I was recording my Interval video tutorial I observed that Interval does not behave as I would expect . Even though (1 to: 100) works as I expect, (1 to: -100) does not. In case of ( 1 to: -100) it created the interval object but it does not populate it with the numbers. I would expect it to populate the interval with the numbers or at least fail with an error. This does not look to me like normal behaviour. (-100 to: 1) on the other hand work as expected. Any thoughts on this issue ?

May 18, 2014

blog post explaining the codecity visualization of pharo changes

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I was asked several times for how the visualization from the Pharo 3.0 announcement was created. I now put together a blog post to explain it: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/communicating-changes-in-pharo-3-0 Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

May 18, 2014