May 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Screencast] request for review

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi Laurent, Very well done - this coding in the debugger is certainly a strong point of Pharo. It is even quite instructive for advanced users. And yes this has to be included in the website. Thanks ! Sven On 01 May 2014, at 23:21, Laurent Laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I've recorded a screencast for Pharo 3.0. Could some of you review the english subtitles ? > > Project is here: https://github.com/lolgzs/pharo-picasa-screencast , subtitles in picasa_pharo3.en.srt. It's a simple text format, but you can use tools like KDE subtitle composer or Jubler to edit it. You can either send me fix by mail or make merge requests on github (easier for me :). > > > Next the idea is to have subtitles translated into several languages, help appreciated. > > And if you have courage and time :), it would be nice to have voice recorded (my spoken english sounds, well, ... ). > > The screencast may be published on new Pharo website for people to get started. > > Cheers, > > Laurent >

May 1, 2014

[Screencast] request for review

by Laurent Laffont

Hi, I've recorded a screencast for Pharo 3.0. Could some of you review the english subtitles ? Project is here: https://github.com/lolgzs/pharo-picasa-screencast , subtitles in picasa_pharo3.en.srt. It's a simple text format, but you can use tools like KDE subtitle composer or Jubler to edit it. You can either send me fix by mail or make merge requests on github (easier for me :). Next the idea is to have subtitles translated into several languages, help appreciated. And if you have courage and time :), it would be nice to have voice recorded (my spoken english sounds, well, ... ). The screencast may be published on new Pharo website for people to get started. Cheers, Laurent

May 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo3 Dark Theme is available

by Facundo Vozzi

Well done! I really like it. Thanks On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>wrote: > mmmâ¦ no, span the list :) > I will fix it. > > Esteban > > On 01 May 2014, at 22:35, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > The critic browser shows a white on white pane. > > So, where can I report issues linked to this unofficial UI without > spamming the list ? > > Phil > > > > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:28 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>wrote: > >> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Dark Theme for Pharo 3 >>> ================== >>> >>> So, I finally took some time and hacked a Dark Theme for Pharo 3: >>> >>> <Screen Shot 2014-05-01 at 13.11.57.png> >>> >>> How you install it? You need to execute this script: >>> >>> â1. You need this because otherwise Gofer merge becomes dumb :P" >>> MCRepositoryGroup default >>> addRepository: (MCSmalltalkhubRepository >>> owner: 'estebanlm' >>> project: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'). >>> â2. Now we can actually MERGE the project" >>> Gofer it >>> smalltalkhubUser: 'estebanlm' project: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'; >>> package: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'; >>> merge. >>> â3. And then install it" >>> Pharo3DarkTheme installFullTheme. >>> >>> >>> *WARNING 1:* You need to do a merge (notice the script) >>> *WARNING 2:* Yes, this is a HACK (also: an ugly hack). See below for >>> details. >>> *WARNING 3:* This changes something in the Pharo3Theme too... so you >>> can go back after installing, but not completely :) >>> >>> Considerations >>> -------------- >>> >>> It can look like an easy task, to make a theme over a non native GUI >>> like Pharo, but let me tell you: It is not. There are a lot of glitches and >>> errors of design you have to overcome to get a working version of a theme. >>> This is a pitty because we claim that our system is clean (or should be >>> clean) and easy to understand. >>> >>> But all the Morphic implementation is a hack over a hack, with >>> preconcepts and hardcodes everywhere, up to a point that to make the >>> smallest change is an incredibly annoying task. >>> >>> Then... I added ""yet another hack"" to this infinite list. I made it >>> because we need something like this, even if not a good solution. And I >>> also made it to start a debate into our community. I truly believe that >>> Morphic was a great idea, but I also believe that current implementation is >>> doomed. I would like to discuss a new implementation, with a good design >>> (for example I believe it should be a clear separation between a morph and >>> it's skin, making easy the actual-hard task of changing a colorset). >>> I also believe there will be a clear separation between what is a Morph >>> (a graphical unit) and a Widget (who at the time should use morphs, but >>> that's another story). >>> Etc., etc., etc. >>> >>> So, will we start the longtime postponed effort of effectively replace >>> current Morphic? >>> >>> In the mean time, enjoy the theme. Is so cool that I'm considering >>> making it my default theme :P >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> >> I installed in on Windows and it works nicely. One needs to reopen >> existing windows as there is a kind of lighter border on them. >> I tried to go to the Pharo3 theme and back, well, yeah, don't try that :-) >> >> Now, I need a dark TWM (the menus are dark already but not the bar itself >> or the menu borders). >> >> Phil >> > > >

May 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo3 Dark Theme is available

by Esteban Lorenzano

mmmâ¦ no, span the list :) I will fix it. Esteban On 01 May 2014, at 22:35, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > The critic browser shows a white on white pane. > > So, where can I report issues linked to this unofficial UI without spamming the list ? > > Phil > > > > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:28 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Dark Theme for Pharo 3 > ================== > > So, I finally took some time and hacked a Dark Theme for Pharo 3: > > <Screen Shot 2014-05-01 at 13.11.57.png> > > How you install it? You need to execute this script: > > â1. You need this because otherwise Gofer merge becomes dumb :P" > MCRepositoryGroup default > addRepository: (MCSmalltalkhubRepository > owner: 'estebanlm' > project: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'). > â2. Now we can actually MERGE the project" > Gofer it > smalltalkhubUser: 'estebanlm' project: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'; > package: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'; > merge. > â3. And then install it" > Pharo3DarkTheme installFullTheme. > > WARNING 1: You need to do a merge (notice the script) > WARNING 2: Yes, this is a HACK (also: an ugly hack). See below for details. > WARNING 3: This changes something in the Pharo3Theme too... so you can go back after installing, but not completely :) > > Considerations > -------------- > > It can look like an easy task, to make a theme over a non native GUI like Pharo, but let me tell you: It is not. There are a lot of glitches and errors of design you have to overcome to get a working version of a theme. This is a pitty because we claim that our system is clean (or should be clean) and easy to understand. > > But all the Morphic implementation is a hack over a hack, with preconcepts and hardcodes everywhere, up to a point that to make the smallest change is an incredibly annoying task. > > Then... I added ""yet another hack"" to this infinite list. I made it because we need something like this, even if not a good solution. And I also made it to start a debate into our community. I truly believe that Morphic was a great idea, but I also believe that current implementation is doomed. I would like to discuss a new implementation, with a good design (for example I believe it should be a clear separation between a morph and it's skin, making easy the actual-hard task of changing a colorset). > I also believe there will be a clear separation between what is a Morph (a graphical unit) and a Widget (who at the time should use morphs, but that's another story). > Etc., etc., etc. > > So, will we start the longtime postponed effort of effectively replace current Morphic? > > In the mean time, enjoy the theme. Is so cool that I'm considering making it my default theme :P > > Esteban > > > I installed in on Windows and it works nicely. One needs to reopen existing windows as there is a kind of lighter border on them. > I tried to go to the Pharo3 theme and back, well, yeah, don't try that :-) > > Now, I need a dark TWM (the menus are dark already but not the bar itself or the menu borders). > > Phil >

May 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo3 Dark Theme is available

by Esteban Lorenzano

On 01 May 2014, at 21:32, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > > De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de Esteban Lorenzano [estebanlm(a)gmail.com] > > > >> By the way, I have added a PharoExtras UIThemes project to Smalltalkhub, right in time it seems ;) > > yeah, the problem is that currently there are a lot of changes happening to make the dark theme possible (I removed hardcoded colors everywhere, re-direct default colors to theme everywhere, modified without any contemplation packages like Morphic*, Spec* and Nautilus*â¦ along with Polymorph* packages, of course. > > Yes, I had a look in the Pharo3DarkTheme package :) wellâ¦ I said it was a hack :P > > This is the only thing which dissuades me from using it right now :( The time for the merge to happen on my netbook is just too long... And I have to do screenshots for PharoForTheEnterprise :) > > Soâ¦ I need to work a lot more in polishing, ensure all continues working, make appropriate SLICES, etc. > I see this as part of the âtool orientedâ direction of Pharo 4. > I shared because I think the result is good enough and people can take benefit of having it (also, then people can help on making the work, he). > But in any case, is not close at all of being integrable to core image, or to a standard theme project :( > But it will be, it has to :) > You've given us something to dream about, and to start to use to boot :) > > >> >> About a morphic redesign, I just had a look at Cuis to see how was their Morphic. > > yeah, not sure that I want to follow that path, but we need to start discussing it :) > I know Alain Plaintec started to work on a new morphic, and I suppose best scenario is all community joining efforts to achieve the goal, but for that we first need to discuss/agree on a design. > I've seen Alain's effort the last time I went to Brest, but I never took the time to try it. I think it's probably a good base; as it is use-driven, it is important to exercise it with the most complex Morphic / Spec GUIs we can build, which means community support. > > What happens now is that every morph is a HUGE ball of mud, with mixed responsibilities and many dependencies to other âlayersâ: is very famous the dependency of HandMorph with the event dispatcher (now cleaned), but that was just an example. Now it is mixed with Polymorph in a very dirty way, etc. etc. > As it's easy for me to see that, it's also frightening to see how many protocols in Morphic are extensions for packages which do not exist anymore. And the complexity of all the PluggableXXX is frightening, and it introduces serious performance problems. > > In a ver corse grained way, I imagine a future morphic well split in his different concerns: graphic âatomsâ, skins and widgets. > And with a more understandable layout API, and with simpler widgets to connect to models, and with working caching so that we don't busy lock Pharo when exploring long collections, and that Moose doesn't have to use that ugly paging tree/list morph, and ... > > While still keeping what made Morphic so great in the first place :) > > Thierry > > cheers, > Esteban > >> >> Thierry

May 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo3 Dark Theme is available

by phil＠highoctane.be

The critic browser shows a white on white pane. So, where can I report issues linked to this unofficial UI without spamming the list ? Phil On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:28 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>wrote: > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>wrote: > >> Dark Theme for Pharo 3 >> ================== >> >> So, I finally took some time and hacked a Dark Theme for Pharo 3: >> >> >> How you install it? You need to execute this script: >> >> â1. You need this because otherwise Gofer merge becomes dumb :P" >> MCRepositoryGroup default >> addRepository: (MCSmalltalkhubRepository >> owner: 'estebanlm' >> project: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'). >> â2. Now we can actually MERGE the project" >> Gofer it >> smalltalkhubUser: 'estebanlm' project: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'; >> package: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'; >> merge. >> â3. And then install it" >> Pharo3DarkTheme installFullTheme. >> >> >> *WARNING 1:* You need to do a merge (notice the script) >> *WARNING 2:* Yes, this is a HACK (also: an ugly hack). See below for >> details. >> *WARNING 3:* This changes something in the Pharo3Theme too... so you can >> go back after installing, but not completely :) >> >> Considerations >> -------------- >> >> It can look like an easy task, to make a theme over a non native GUI like >> Pharo, but let me tell you: It is not. There are a lot of glitches and >> errors of design you have to overcome to get a working version of a theme. >> This is a pitty because we claim that our system is clean (or should be >> clean) and easy to understand. >> >> But all the Morphic implementation is a hack over a hack, with >> preconcepts and hardcodes everywhere, up to a point that to make the >> smallest change is an incredibly annoying task. >> >> Then... I added ""yet another hack"" to this infinite list. I made it >> because we need something like this, even if not a good solution. And I >> also made it to start a debate into our community. I truly believe that >> Morphic was a great idea, but I also believe that current implementation is >> doomed. I would like to discuss a new implementation, with a good design >> (for example I believe it should be a clear separation between a morph and >> it's skin, making easy the actual-hard task of changing a colorset). >> I also believe there will be a clear separation between what is a Morph >> (a graphical unit) and a Widget (who at the time should use morphs, but >> that's another story). >> Etc., etc., etc. >> >> So, will we start the longtime postponed effort of effectively replace >> current Morphic? >> >> In the mean time, enjoy the theme. Is so cool that I'm considering making >> it my default theme :P >> >> Esteban >> >> > I installed in on Windows and it works nicely. One needs to reopen > existing windows as there is a kind of lighter border on them. > I tried to go to the Pharo3 theme and back, well, yeah, don't try that :-) > > Now, I need a dark TWM (the menus are dark already but not the bar itself > or the menu borders). > > Phil >

May 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo3 Dark Theme is available

by Esteban Lorenzano

On 01 May 2014, at 22:28, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Dark Theme for Pharo 3 > ================== > > So, I finally took some time and hacked a Dark Theme for Pharo 3: > > <Screen Shot 2014-05-01 at 13.11.57.png> > > How you install it? You need to execute this script: > > â1. You need this because otherwise Gofer merge becomes dumb :P" > MCRepositoryGroup default > addRepository: (MCSmalltalkhubRepository > owner: 'estebanlm' > project: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'). > â2. Now we can actually MERGE the project" > Gofer it > smalltalkhubUser: 'estebanlm' project: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'; > package: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'; > merge. > â3. And then install it" > Pharo3DarkTheme installFullTheme. > > WARNING 1: You need to do a merge (notice the script) > WARNING 2: Yes, this is a HACK (also: an ugly hack). See below for details. > WARNING 3: This changes something in the Pharo3Theme too... so you can go back after installing, but not completely :) > > Considerations > -------------- > > It can look like an easy task, to make a theme over a non native GUI like Pharo, but let me tell you: It is not. There are a lot of glitches and errors of design you have to overcome to get a working version of a theme. This is a pitty because we claim that our system is clean (or should be clean) and easy to understand. > > But all the Morphic implementation is a hack over a hack, with preconcepts and hardcodes everywhere, up to a point that to make the smallest change is an incredibly annoying task. > > Then... I added ""yet another hack"" to this infinite list. I made it because we need something like this, even if not a good solution. And I also made it to start a debate into our community. I truly believe that Morphic was a great idea, but I also believe that current implementation is doomed. I would like to discuss a new implementation, with a good design (for example I believe it should be a clear separation between a morph and it's skin, making easy the actual-hard task of changing a colorset). > I also believe there will be a clear separation between what is a Morph (a graphical unit) and a Widget (who at the time should use morphs, but that's another story). > Etc., etc., etc. > > So, will we start the longtime postponed effort of effectively replace current Morphic? > > In the mean time, enjoy the theme. Is so cool that I'm considering making it my default theme :P > > Esteban > > > I installed in on Windows and it works nicely. One needs to reopen existing windows as there is a kind of lighter border on them. > I tried to go to the Pharo3 theme and back, well, yeah, don't try that :-) going back should be doable. But you need to close and open all windows. > > Now, I need a dark TWM (the menus are dark already but not the bar itself or the menu borders). thatâs a work for TWM maintainers, Iâm already dealing with Glamour (quite easy, TBH) ;) > > Phil

May 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo3 Dark Theme is available

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Dark Theme for Pharo 3 > ================== > > So, I finally took some time and hacked a Dark Theme for Pharo 3: > > > How you install it? You need to execute this script: > > â1. You need this because otherwise Gofer merge becomes dumb :P" > MCRepositoryGroup default > addRepository: (MCSmalltalkhubRepository > owner: 'estebanlm' > project: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'). > â2. Now we can actually MERGE the project" > Gofer it > smalltalkhubUser: 'estebanlm' project: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'; > package: 'Pharo3DarkTheme'; > merge. > â3. And then install it" > Pharo3DarkTheme installFullTheme. > > > *WARNING 1:* You need to do a merge (notice the script) > *WARNING 2:* Yes, this is a HACK (also: an ugly hack). See below for > details. > *WARNING 3:* This changes something in the Pharo3Theme too... so you can > go back after installing, but not completely :) > > Considerations > -------------- > > It can look like an easy task, to make a theme over a non native GUI like > Pharo, but let me tell you: It is not. There are a lot of glitches and > errors of design you have to overcome to get a working version of a theme. > This is a pitty because we claim that our system is clean (or should be > clean) and easy to understand. > > But all the Morphic implementation is a hack over a hack, with preconcepts > and hardcodes everywhere, up to a point that to make the smallest change is > an incredibly annoying task. > > Then... I added ""yet another hack"" to this infinite list. I made it > because we need something like this, even if not a good solution. And I > also made it to start a debate into our community. I truly believe that > Morphic was a great idea, but I also believe that current implementation is > doomed. I would like to discuss a new implementation, with a good design > (for example I believe it should be a clear separation between a morph and > it's skin, making easy the actual-hard task of changing a colorset). > I also believe there will be a clear separation between what is a Morph (a > graphical unit) and a Widget (who at the time should use morphs, but that's > another story). > Etc., etc., etc. > > So, will we start the longtime postponed effort of effectively replace > current Morphic? > > In the mean time, enjoy the theme. Is so cool that I'm considering making > it my default theme :P > > Esteban > > I installed in on Windows and it works nicely. One needs to reopen existing windows as there is a kind of lighter border on them. I tried to go to the Pharo3 theme and back, well, yeah, don't try that :-) Now, I need a dark TWM (the menus are dark already but not the bar itself or the menu borders). Phil

May 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

by Sebastian Sastre

On May 1, 2014, at 3:37 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > kilon alios wrote >> "Smalltalk inspired" is reinforcing "Sorry for dead Smalltalk > > The more I think about it, the more I dislike Smalltalk-inspired. I think > the best plan would be to: > 1. Hold off for a brief moment mentioning Smalltalk at all - e.g. give a > sound bite, introduce the environment and libraries, and then when we're > ready to mention the language and legacy > 2. Something like "Smalltalk Unleashed" or "Smalltalk Reborn" Smalltalk reborn is the kind of bold statement that we should aim to say but I donât feel we are quite ready to tell that just yet. If we force things and we do weâll devaluate our speech because the expectations are very high out there. But.. if we raise the bar on innovation and become able to do things like Meteor, thatâs a whole different story. If something of that caliber happens and we have things to battle test them and we do good, then things would get really excitingâ¦ super heroic kind of excitingâ¦ continuation of the legend kind of exiting... tl;dr: Many prolific and prosperous things could come from a Pharo Amber relationship In fact, hush hush, but at flowing we just approved doing a feature in airflowing that is not doable without Amber and Pharo. Wonder how our audience will respond to that... sebastian o/

May 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo3 Dark Theme is available

by GOUBIER Thierry

________________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de Sean P. DeNigris [sean(a)clipperadams.com] EnvoyÃ© : jeudi 1 mai 2014 20:31 Ã : pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo3 Dark Theme is available EstebanLM wrote >> About a morphic redesign... > I suppose best scenario is all community joining efforts to achieve the > goal, but for that we first need to discuss/agree on a design. Yes!!! IMHO our Morphic implementation's ocmplexity is the biggest thing holding back our creative spirit. It seems that many other things have been cleared out of our way and now is the time to make this happen. I think you hit the nail right on the head: 1) all interested parties join forces - there have been too many experimental cleanups and re-implementations that are interesting but ultimately unused/unusable, and 2) start with a solid design. Morphic's power is incredible and it would be great to have that available when you need it, with all the more-business-friendly UI objects built on top. Some good places I've found ideas and insights are ARK, Self, Lively Kernel, KScript, and Cuis. Note on the design: I wouldn't hesitate to have some of the business-friendly objects slightly on the side of the overall design: we don't need the full complexity and power of Morphic for many business objects... Doru's work with Glamour may be a good benchmark of how simple business looking code may be. However, I would dream of merging Roassal(2) and Morphic. Use Roassal DSLs and infrastructure to make Morphic simpler, and build fully integrated GUIs (code exploration tools, or even a system browser) where some of the widgets are Roassal(s). This was my dream when I started my browser: have a full screen representation of the code inside my image, as an interactive background to my Pharo, and editors floating there and there to edit the code, run it, explore it, debug it, etc... I settled for less :) Thierry

May 1, 2014