April 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

IMPORTANT: Looking for names of contributors for Pharo 3

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi guys, Iâm collecting the names of those who contributed code for Pharo 3. I made my own list, but is almost made by memory, so Iâm sure Iâm forgetting MANY names. So, pleaseâ¦ look yourself in the list and if you are not there, reply adding it. (btwâ¦ Kilon, I know you contributed, is just that I donât know your real name :P) Jean Baptiste Arnaud Philippe Back ClÃ©ment Bera Alexandre Bergel Camillo Bruni Sven Van Caekenberghe Damien Cassou Nicolas Cellier Ben Coman Gisela Decuzzi Christophe Demarey Sean DeNigris Marcus Denker Martin Dias Stephane Ducasse Stephan Eggermont Luc Fabresse Hilaire Fernandes Tudor Girba Thierry Goubier Norbert Harlt Nicolai Hess Andre Hora Pavel Krivanek Jannik Laval Max Leske David Lewis Esteban Lorenzano Stefan Marr Mariano Martinez Peck Eliot Miranda Nicolas Petton Alain Plantec Guillermo Polito Damien Pollet Camille Teruel Benjamin Van Ryseghem Frank Shearar Igor Stasenko Sebastian Tleye Yuriy Tymchuk Thanks, Esteban

April 16, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] 13102

by GOUBIER Thierry

Ok, my position: 1) local shortcut should not override global shortcuts, but see 2) 2) global shortcuts should be as restricted as they are in a normal desktop (see your OS HIG documentation for that) - Suggestion: create a namespace with a prefix for application triggering global shortcuts, where each app can add his (x ctrl + w for opening a Workspace, x ctrl + etc...) 4) Warn of overlapping when adding shortcuts. 3) Remove that set :) Thierry ________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de Guillermo Polito [guillermopolito(a)gmail.com] EnvoyÃ© : mercredi 16 avril 2014 11:46 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] 13102 Bump :) On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com<mailto:guillermopolito@gmail.com>> wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com<mailto:guillermopolito@gmail.com>> wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com<mailto:guillermopolito@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi! Sorry for the late response... I'm covered with stuff to do lately. To my understanding we are mixing these different issues: 1) whether the global shortcuts should have or not priority over local shortcuts. To my understanding that's what operating systems do. You cannot override alt+tab and if you intend, it will just not work. If any application can override alt+tab, the system will feel inconsistent for the users. So global shortcuts have priority with this intend: Not let the tools mess with what Pharo has decided the global shortcuts should be. So, any points against or in favor to this? 2) which are the actions that should be available globally though a shortcut. This deserves for sure a different discussion than 1). Should we put all tools in there? The more we put, the more difficult is to put shortcuts locally in tools. In any case I think this is orthogonal to 1). 3) are the shortcuts we chose for the tools the right ones? I think the "prefixed" shortcuts chosen for the tools were thought as a kind of namespace for the shortcuts. Again, I find this orthogonal to 1). Do we open a new thread to discuss this? I think it's important to discuss what is available globally through a shortcut and what's not, and what such shortcuts should be. The only thing I need is: - Spotlight - Finder? - Workspace? - The main menu? The browser I don't really need it because I use spotlight. The finder can cover almost all stuff I search normally trough a workspace :). Even if this is not for Pharo3, it's important for Pharo4.

April 16, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] 13102

by Guillermo Polito

Bump :) On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com > wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Guillermo Polito < > guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Guillermo Polito < >> guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi! >>> >>> Sorry for the late response... I'm covered with stuff to do lately. >>> >>> To my understanding we are mixing these different issues: >>> >>> 1) whether the global shortcuts should have or not priority over local >>> shortcuts. To my understanding that's what operating systems do. You cannot >>> override alt+tab and if you intend, it will just not work. If any >>> application can override alt+tab, the system will feel inconsistent for the >>> users. So global shortcuts have priority with this intend: Not let the >>> tools mess with what Pharo has decided the global shortcuts should be. >>> >> So, any points against or in favor to this? > >>> 2) which are the actions that should be available globally though a >>> shortcut. This deserves for sure a different discussion than 1). Should we >>> put all tools in there? The more we put, the more difficult is to put >>> shortcuts locally in tools. In any case I think this is orthogonal to 1). >>> >>> 3) are the shortcuts we chose for the tools the right ones? I think the >>> "prefixed" shortcuts chosen for the tools were thought as a kind of >>> namespace for the shortcuts. Again, I find this orthogonal to 1). >>> >> Do we open a new thread to discuss this? I think it's important to discuss what is available globally through a shortcut and what's not, and what such shortcuts should be. The only thing I need is: - Spotlight - Finder? - Workspace? - The main menu? The browser I don't really need it because I use spotlight. The finder can cover almost all stuff I search normally trough a workspace :). Even if this is not for Pharo3, it's important for Pharo4. > >>> 4) About the collision issue. First, it is an issue that appeared when >>> people started to use keymappings :). The original intent was to let the >>> user manage the collisions, because I find there is not a perfect solution. >>> - if we make first single, then complex matching only local to a >>> morph, then a complex match from a child would override a single match from >>> a parent. >>> - if we make first single, then complex matching *all over the >>> hierarchy*, we may find a single match from a parent overriding a complex >>> shortcut of a child. >>> >> >> Just to complete my thoughts and provide my position about this issue. I >> would rather go for the first solution: favor local over global resolution >> because we will find less bugs. >> > > And here I meant by global resolution = *all over the hierarchy*, silly > me, I'm hungry. > >> >> >>> >>> A second issue, partially related to the resolution strategy, is the Set >>> that should not be there because it provides a random ingredient. However, >>> at the same time it makes you think about not creating collisions in the >>> same morph :). Actually, if you remove the randomness and configure a morph >>> with: >>> >>> cmd+a => do something >>> cmd+a, cmd+b => do other something >>> >>> Either the first or the second will never be executed depending on the >>> strategy you choose (first single then complex, or the opposite). So I find >>> this a buggy configuration, randomness or not randomness. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Guille >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I agree that the behavior is not ideal, but it only occurs when you >>>> have collisions. And of course it would be great to have everything working >>>> perfectly, but at this point it is more important to release. That is why, >>>> in my book, it is more important to reduce the impact (fast) than it is to >>>> solve it properly (slow). >>>> >>>> The problem was noticed in few cases. I for one only noticed it after >>>> the global shortcuts were introduced in the image. Hence, it is very likely >>>> to achieve a good enough state with little effort by removing the shortcuts. >>>> >>>> Of course, if someone else does have a better solution, he can propose >>>> it, but it has to be concrete and doubled by the effort that comes with >>>> developing and testing it :) >>>> >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 3:22 PM, GOUBIER Thierry < >>>> thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Tudor, >>>>> >>>>> an implementation which randomly determines which shortcut will match >>>>> is a bug to me, and one worthy of being solved before release. >>>>> >>>>> Why wouldn't Moose alone desactivate the global shortcuts if that >>>>> seems the solution? >>>>> >>>>> Thierry >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *De :* Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de >>>>> Tudor Girba [tudor(a)tudorgirba.com] >>>>> *EnvoyÃ© :* lundi 14 avril 2014 15:15 >>>>> >>>>> *Ã :* Pharo Development List >>>>> *Objet :* Re: [Pharo-dev] 13102 >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Sorry for not replying before but I was offline. This issue is not >>>>> to fix Keymapping at this point. The current solution was designed with >>>>> intent to work in the current way. We can certainly discuss about fixing >>>>> it, but the solution is not for Pharo 3. >>>>> >>>>> The current discussion is about disabling the global shortcuts for >>>>> opening the Workspace and other tools. In the Moose image, we disable those >>>>> shortcuts because with the current implementation of Keymapping having >>>>> complicated global keybindings simply leads to problems (for example, we >>>>> cannot use Cmd+o for anything). Do not get me wrong: Keymapping is an >>>>> excellent contribution that simplified a lot an important area. My >>>>> suggestion is to remove the global mappings for Pharo 3.0, and then >>>>> continue to work on getting Keymappings to an even better state. >>>>> >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:49 PM, GOUBIER Thierry < >>>>> thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Esteban, Marcus, >>>>>> >>>>>> in that particular case, I would propose the following simple fix >>>>>> which could solve the first impression. >>>>>> - Document global shortcuts, ensure that they are single key. >>>>>> - Document an overload (or not) effect when your app redefines a >>>>>> global shortcut. >>>>>> - Change a bit Keymapping so that single key shortcuts match first. >>>>>> >>>>>> This would solve the immediate problem and let us time to consider a >>>>>> more complex solution for Pharo 4. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thierry >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de >>>>>> Esteban Lorenzano [estebanlm(a)gmail.com] >>>>>> EnvoyÃ© : lundi 14 avril 2014 14:39 >>>>>> Ã : Pharo Development List >>>>>> Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] 13102 >>>>>> >>>>>> On 14 Apr 2014, at 14:28, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On 13 Apr 2014, at 11:26, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Hi Marcus, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I think 13102 is a showstopper. Canât explain this to new users. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> sorry, but I have to disagreeâ¦ this is an important problem, I agree. >>>>>> But fix that will need (AFAIK) a lot of work and probably a revamp of >>>>>> the keybindings in system. >>>>>> Alsoâ¦ this problem was (again, AFAIK) present since pharo2 and we >>>>>> have been able to continue working even with that annoyance. >>>>>> >>>>>> We will always have problems to fix. And we still have many *really >>>>>> important* problem to fix. But if we do not release even with some bugs, we >>>>>> will never release. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Show stopperâ IMO, is a bug that prevents the system to continue >>>>>> working. Explain to students an annoyance in the system is bad, but not >>>>>> show stopper. >>>>>> >>>>>> soâ¦ Iâm with Marcus. We can delay this fix. But I also believe this >>>>>> kind of problems are a âshoot in the footâ, not good for attract newcomers. >>>>>> Thatâs why we are suggesting that Pharo4 should centred on the >>>>>> tooling: we have the feeling that out tools are one (or several) step(s) >>>>>> behind the power that pharo has. >>>>>> >>>>>> Esteban >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The question is do we hold up the release for it? >>>>>> > That is: is not releasing better than releasing with this? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > How long do we stop releasing, considering that we will not find >>>>>> > anyone to fix it? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Marcus >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>> >>> >>> >> >

April 16, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] We need *you* for the upcoming Pharo's website

by Esteban Lorenzano

please do not answer all at once! (subtle irony) anyway, I have to add that screencast has to be Pharo3 based. cheers, Esteban On 15 Apr 2014, at 13:03, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > we are working on a new website for Pharo! We need your help. If you > have some time, please create and send us one of the following items: > > - An up-to-date screenshot of Pharo 3.0 that shows some cool features. > It should be 800px wide ; > - A screencast ; > - A paragraph (around 40 words) that presents a nice topic about Pharo > and a corresponding screenshot. > > We will select 1 large screenshot, 3 screencasts and 4 topic paragraphs. > > This could be a very nice way for you to contribute to Pharo! > > Best, > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without > losing enthusiasm." > Winston Churchill >

April 16, 2014

[Pharo3] Issue tracker status

by Marcus Denker

Open issues: âmust fixâ or higher: 6 https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/filters/64/3-0-TODO out of those: 1 to include, 1 to review, 1 VM related change that needs to be integrated. Others that need actions: 13195 testAllSetsAreHealthy fails on ci server for mac only https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13195 13192 Document Linux 32 bit library workaround https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13192 âall issuesâ tagged Pharo3: 15 https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/filters/99/3-0-All it would be nice if people would check the issuesâ¦ especially if you have been involved with them in the past. (keep in mind that issues that are open with no action since months are likely not showstoppers for releasingâ¦) Marcus

April 16, 2014

InfiniteForm

by pharo4Stef＠free.fr

There a plenty of isKindOf: InfiniteForm in the system and I was trying to understand how we could get rid of them. How other systems handle pattern based color filling shape? Stef

April 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] how to completely ignore mouse wheel events?

by Yuriy Tymchuk

Can we disable side-scroll events? Iâm using trackpad andâ¦ you know what happens. Uko On 15 Apr 2014, at 16:50, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > Ah, > > I wanted to write such a mail for a long time. With my apple bluetooth mouse I always have the effect that just being close to the mouse produces hundreds of events and pharo is willing to interpret em all. Thus giving me rotating browsers and flipping windows. > > Norbert > > Am 15.04.2014 um 15:36 schrieb Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>: > >> Hi! >> >> Mouse wheel events are so poorly handled in Pharo, that they are not useful. >> With Ronie we are seeing how we can better handle events with a window generated with SDL. But this is for the future. >> >> Is there a way to easily unable them? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> > >

April 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalkhub down

by Damien Cassou

works fine for me even though downforeveryoneorjustme says it is still down On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 6:34 PM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://smalltalkhub.com/ > > Any admin? ;-) > > #Luc -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

April 15, 2014

Jenkins build is still unstable: Pharo-2.0 #363

by no-reply＠ci.inria.fr

See <https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-2.0/363/>

April 15, 2014

Smalltalkhub down

by Luc Fabresse

Hi, http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://smalltalkhub.com/ Any admin? ;-) #Luc

April 15, 2014