April 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

by ClÃ©ment Bera

2014-04-30 11:32 GMT-07:00 Ronie Salgado <roniesalg(a)gmail.com>: > Hi ClÃ©ment, > > There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the > bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. > Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available > in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d : > > Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: > 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) > loadDevelopment > > For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an > interesting idea. > What do you mean there is no support for fractals ? Can you draw a 3D shape based on an Array of Point3D ? Fractals are nice because they impress people on demos and they are fun to implement, however I don't know if they represent a common use case for business applications. Regards Clement > > Greetings, > Ronie > > > 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D >> stuff. >> >> I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off >> Rossal with the 3.0 release.... >> >> On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Hello, >> > >> > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people >> (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I >> cannot show them a compiler). >> > >> > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on >> Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'. >> > >> > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got: >> > >> > <Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png> >> > >> > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ? >> > >> > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals). >> > >> > Thanks ! >> >> >> >

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Usage of should: in tests

by Nicolas Cellier

Some not so different opinion: http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com/2011/09/15/sunit-and-shouldshouldnt-vs-a… 2014-05-01 0:52 GMT+02:00 Nicolas Cellier < nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > I see many usage of #should: in SciSmalltalk tests that could simply be > turned into #assert: or eventually #assert:equals: > Why wanting to use a block? > Other than #should:raise: and #shouldnt:raise:, I don't really see the > point of #should: alone anyway... > IMO should: should be deprecated, less is more. > I'm possibly the author of several of these #should: sends, so don't take > it personnally ;) > > P.S. or is it easier to restart the block in the Debugger? > I cross post to pharo-dev because it's a generic question, and there are a > few #should: sends in Pharo-3.0 too. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "SciSmalltalk" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to scismalltalk+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >

April 30, 2014

Usage of should: in tests

by Nicolas Cellier

Hi, I see many usage of #should: in SciSmalltalk tests that could simply be turned into #assert: or eventually #assert:equals: Why wanting to use a block? Other than #should:raise: and #shouldnt:raise:, I don't really see the point of #should: alone anyway... IMO should: should be deprecated, less is more. I'm possibly the author of several of these #should: sends, so don't take it personnally ;) P.S. or is it easier to restart the block in the Debugger? I cross post to pharo-dev because it's a generic question, and there are a few #should: sends in Pharo-3.0 too.

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 / Roassal2 / Ubuntu

by Nicolai Hess

2014-04-30 20:03 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > I just tried on Mac OS X and that worked fine, you have to make sure that > you use the latest VM I guess. I believe the required libraries come with > the VM. But I am an inexperienced user on this area. > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 19:53, volkert(a)nivoba.de wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > i just downloaded Pharo 3.0 and installed Roassal2 via Configuration > Manager (Stable Version). > > When trying the "Roassal examples" (from Tool-Menu) i got an red screen. > > > > Platform Ubuntu 14.04LTS > > Pharo3.0 Latest update: #30846 > > > > Need some help :-) > > > > BW, > > Volkert > > > > > Same error on windows 7 StrikeFont(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #glyphRendererOn: LogicalFont>>glyphRendererOn: AthensCairoCanvas>>setFont: TRLabelShape>>drawOn: in Block: [ ... BlockClosure>>ensure: AthensCairoMatrix>>restoreAfter: TRLabelShape>>drawOn: TRMorph>>drawOn: in Block: [ :trachelShape | trachelShape drawOn: cs ] Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: TRMorph>>drawOn: in Block: [ :cs | ... AthensCairoSurface>>drawDuring: in Block: [ ... BlockClosure>>ensure: AthensCairoSurface>>drawDuring: TRMorph>>drawOn: FormCanvas(Canvas)>>draw: FormCanvas(Canvas)>>drawMorph: TRMorph(Morph)>>fullDrawOn: in Block: [ ... FormCanvas>>roundCornersOf:in:during: FormCanvas(Canvas)>>roundCornersOf:during: TRMorph(Morph)>>fullDrawOn: in Block: [ ... BlockClosure>>on:do: TRMorph(Morph)>>fullDrawOn: FormCanvas(Canvas)>>fullDraw: FormCanvas(Canvas)>>fullDrawMorph: SystemWindow(Morph)>>drawSubmorphsOn: in Block: [ :m | canvas fullDrawMorph: m ] Array(SequenceableCollection)>>reverseDo: SystemWindow(Morph)>>drawSubmorphsOn: in Block: [ :canvas | submorphs reverseDo: [ :m | canvas ful...etc... FormCanvas>>clipBy:during: SystemWindow(Morph)>>drawSubmorphsOn: SystemWindow(Morph)>>fullDrawOn: in Block: [ ... ----- P:\Pharo3.0\Pharo-30846.image Pharo3.0 Latest update: #30846 Unnamed P:\Pharo3.0\Pharo.exe NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Apr 30 2014 NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Apr 30 2014 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: f4003fe7538a6da16466eebf6b57ec3e2143087b Date: 2014-04-30 18:42:09 +0200 By: Damien Pollet <> Jenkins build #14822 (I've the feeling, Roassal(2 and 3D) stuff only works on mac os X.)

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

by kilon alios

yeap definitely sounds a like a good idea to me :) On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > We have that list too: > > Page 3 of > http://www.pharo-project.org/download/pictures/be/j32hajf3kjdbsebqo0a9zc5tk… > > Or this version: > > > http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org/2012-May/00405… > > Now that I see this list again, I feel that it should be part of the image. > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 23:33, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Personally I am very interested to see how developers see Pharo, because > the way they see it is also the future of Pharo the directions it is going. > So while some may find these type of discussion derailing its very > important for the direction of Pharo. > > > > Even though its very important to add code to Pharo and enhance and bug > fix, its also very important to have a clear vision that the community > agrees on. > > > > The discussion also has raised some important issues of how Pharo is > promoted, obviously Promotion of Pharo is a rather huge deal for Pharo > future. I see these Emails as the start of a very long process in the > future of Pharo where the community tries to feel in the dark its path and > the values it represents. Its also important to get the message (Pharo is > all about messages afterall) loud and clear to newcomers or people > considering giving Pharo a try. > > > > Sean I am definitely interested in the discussion and your opinion, I > have very little to contribute to it, but its great to hear the opinion of > people that have very large experience of Smalltalk. > > > > Some say "opinions are like assholes everyone has one" (no intention to > be rude) but my belief is opinions however wrong they may be, do matter > because they reveal personal needs , desires and dreams. Pharo like every > other product out there is made to please people and accommodate for these > things. > > > > Also these discussions are far from exclusive to Pharo. I am coming from > Python there there is the Zen of Pharo. > > > > " > > â¢ Beautiful is better than ugly. > > â¢ Explicit is better than implicit. > > â¢ Simple is better than complex. > > â¢ Complex is better than complicated. > > â¢ Flat is better than nested. > > â¢ Sparse is better than dense. > > â¢ Readability counts. > > â¢ Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules. > > â¢ Although practicality beats purity. > > â¢ Errors should never pass silently. > > â¢ Unless explicitly silenced. > > â¢ In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess. > > â¢ There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to > do it. > > â¢ Although that way may not be obvious at first unless > you're Dutch. > > â¢ Now is better than never. > > â¢ Although never is often better than right now. > > â¢ If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea. > > â¢ If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea. > > â¢ NameSpaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those! > > > > â¢ " > > This started as a joke from a single guy. Then it was included as a > module in python standard library , the moment you import the module it > executes a method that prints this text. The joke became something very > serious, it is something that many python library authors take as a guide > for designing their libraries. This piece of joke has become so serious > that currently python libraries uses this set of principles and libraries > that don't are labeled by python coders as "unpythonic" which is considered > a bad thing. > > > > For me this indicates that a community has chosen a path and most > importantly a path they have chosen to walk together as one unit. I don't > think there is anything stronger than that. > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris < > sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > onierstrasz wrote > > > 117 emails since I checked a few hours ago? > > > > 110 of those were mine, sorry :-P > > Signing off for today... > > > > > > > > ----- > > Cheers, > > Sean > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-renamed-to-MuchTalk-tp4757347p4757349.html > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > > > >

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 30 Apr 2014, at 23:48, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Sven, > > About the configuration browser, I don't know why Roassal 3D it is there, because currently is highly unstable and it is going to keep being for a while. We are still missing lot of features and we need to fix lot of bugs. I suspected as much, it probably was copied in a bit too early. > As for the black boxes, that is a shader issue which I could reproduce in my machine using an Intel graphics card but I haven't have time to track where it is. OK. > As for something like the Roassal examples, that is definitely something that we need. > > If there is too much urgency on using Roassal 3D, please, let me know so I can focus on getting a stable release soon. No need to do anything special for me, just keep on doing things at your own schedule, and be sure to let us know when we mortals can start using it. > Greetings, > Ronie > > > 2014-04-30 15:25 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > Ronnie, > > The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations, if those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should no be there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it super easy for users to load something with just one click. > > I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works. If I try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes. > > Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one is cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-) > > But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing ! > > Sven > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi ClÃ©ment, > > > > There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d : > > > > Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) loadDevelopment > > > > For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an interesting idea. > > > > Greetings, > > Ronie > > > > > > 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D stuff. > > > > I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off Rossal with the 3.0 release.... > > > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler). > > > > > > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'. > > > > > > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got: > > > > > > <Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png> > > > > > > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ? > > > > > > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals). > > > > > > Thanks ! > > > > > > > > >

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

We have that list too: Page 3 of http://www.pharo-project.org/download/pictures/be/j32hajf3kjdbsebqo0a9zc5tk… Or this version: http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org/2012-May/00405… Now that I see this list again, I feel that it should be part of the image. On 30 Apr 2014, at 23:33, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Personally I am very interested to see how developers see Pharo, because the way they see it is also the future of Pharo the directions it is going. So while some may find these type of discussion derailing its very important for the direction of Pharo. > > Even though its very important to add code to Pharo and enhance and bug fix, its also very important to have a clear vision that the community agrees on. > > The discussion also has raised some important issues of how Pharo is promoted, obviously Promotion of Pharo is a rather huge deal for Pharo future. I see these Emails as the start of a very long process in the future of Pharo where the community tries to feel in the dark its path and the values it represents. Its also important to get the message (Pharo is all about messages afterall) loud and clear to newcomers or people considering giving Pharo a try. > > Sean I am definitely interested in the discussion and your opinion, I have very little to contribute to it, but its great to hear the opinion of people that have very large experience of Smalltalk. > > Some say "opinions are like assholes everyone has one" (no intention to be rude) but my belief is opinions however wrong they may be, do matter because they reveal personal needs , desires and dreams. Pharo like every other product out there is made to please people and accommodate for these things. > > Also these discussions are far from exclusive to Pharo. I am coming from Python there there is the Zen of Pharo. > > " > â¢ Beautiful is better than ugly. > â¢ Explicit is better than implicit. > â¢ Simple is better than complex. > â¢ Complex is better than complicated. > â¢ Flat is better than nested. > â¢ Sparse is better than dense. > â¢ Readability counts. > â¢ Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules. > â¢ Although practicality beats purity. > â¢ Errors should never pass silently. > â¢ Unless explicitly silenced. > â¢ In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess. > â¢ There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it. > â¢ Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch. > â¢ Now is better than never. > â¢ Although never is often better than right now. > â¢ If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea. > â¢ If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea. > â¢ NameSpaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those! > > â¢ " > This started as a joke from a single guy. Then it was included as a module in python standard library , the moment you import the module it executes a method that prints this text. The joke became something very serious, it is something that many python library authors take as a guide for designing their libraries. This piece of joke has become so serious that currently python libraries uses this set of principles and libraries that don't are labeled by python coders as "unpythonic" which is considered a bad thing. > > For me this indicates that a community has chosen a path and most importantly a path they have chosen to walk together as one unit. I don't think there is anything stronger than that. > > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > onierstrasz wrote > > 117 emails since I checked a few hours ago? > > 110 of those were mine, sorry :-P > Signing off for today... > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-renamed-to-MuchTalk-tp4757347p4757349.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

by Ronie Salgado

Hi Sven, About the configuration browser, I don't know why Roassal 3D it is there, because currently is highly unstable and it is going to keep being for a while. We are still missing lot of features and we need to fix lot of bugs. As for the black boxes, that is a shader issue which I could reproduce in my machine using an Intel graphics card but I haven't have time to track where it is. As for something like the Roassal examples, that is definitely something that we need. If there is too much urgency on using Roassal 3D, please, let me know so I can focus on getting a stable release soon. Greetings, Ronie 2014-04-30 15:25 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > Ronnie, > > The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations, > if those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should > no be there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it > super easy for users to load something with just one click. > > I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works. > If I try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes. > > Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one > is cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-) > > But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing ! > > Sven > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi ClÃ©ment, > > > > There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the > bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. > Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available > in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d : > > > > Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: > 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) > loadDevelopment > > > > For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an > interesting idea. > > > > Greetings, > > Ronie > > > > > > 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D > stuff. > > > > I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off > Rossal with the 3.0 release.... > > > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people > (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I > cannot show them a compiler). > > > > > > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on > Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'. > > > > > > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got: > > > > > > <Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png> > > > > > > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ? > > > > > > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals). > > > > > > Thanks ! > > > > > > > > >

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo RPi and FileSystem error

by Jean Baptiste Arnaud

On rasp there a re no native boost and no OSProcess for now but OSProcess seems work well on my own Jenkins job. After few test I will send a pull request. Here is a OSProcess added version of the rasp VM https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/ARM-Experimentation/job/Raspber… On 30 Apr 2014, at 19:43, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > I thought that we did that already: > > OSEnvironment class>>#isAvailable > NativeBoost class>>#isAvailable > PlatformIndependentEnvironment > > No ? > > Are you using the latest 3.0 ? > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:49, Jean Baptiste Arnaud <jbaptiste.arnaud(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> That the point I want to checks it, run test and if work integrated for raspbian. >> It is completely generated it shouldn't have any problem. But ... >> >> A really nice guy can just do the image side hack to avoid FileSystem error. >> >> On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:24, Douglas McPherson <djm1329(a)san.rr.com> wrote: >> >>> As a data point, OSProcess works "out-of-the-box" with the Squeak interpreter VM shipped with Raspbian. So should be ok in Pharo, but I haven't tried it. >>> >>> Doug >>> >>> On Apr 30, 2014, at 09:03 , David T. Lewis wrote: >>> >>>>> >>>>> There are no NativeBoost on Rpi, FFI or OSProcess. >>>>> Basically the fileSystem work, but some data are fetch via env variable >>>>> and then NativeBoost. >>>>> The solution is to bypass all the request of env variable. >>>>> You should use another way until, we finish to integrate a way to request >>>>> correctly the env variable (NB on arm). >>>>> >>>>> I will studies the possibility to reintegrate fast the OSProcess plugin to >>>>> offer "better" solution. >>>> >>>> >>>> I would expect OSProcess to work without problems on Rpi, although I do >>>> not have a way to test it. The plugin should be fine. Maybe some changes >>>> will be needed on the image side for detecting the platform, I'm not sure. >>>> >>>> Let me know if I can help, I will be glad to add any necessary patches to >>>> OSProcess. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Best Regards >> Jean Baptiste Arnaud >> jbaptiste.arnaud(a)gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Best Regards Jean Baptiste Arnaud jbaptiste.arnaud(a)gmail.com

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

by kilon alios

Personally I am very interested to see how developers see Pharo, because the way they see it is also the future of Pharo the directions it is going. So while some may find these type of discussion derailing its very important for the direction of Pharo. Even though its very important to add code to Pharo and enhance and bug fix, its also very important to have a clear vision that the community agrees on. The discussion also has raised some important issues of how Pharo is promoted, obviously Promotion of Pharo is a rather huge deal for Pharo future. I see these Emails as the start of a very long process in the future of Pharo where the community tries to feel in the dark its path and the values it represents. Its also important to get the message (Pharo is all about messages afterall) loud and clear to newcomers or people considering giving Pharo a try. Sean I am definitely interested in the discussion and your opinion, I have very little to contribute to it, but its great to hear the opinion of people that have very large experience of Smalltalk. Some say "opinions are like assholes everyone has one" (no intention to be rude) but my belief is opinions however wrong they may be, do matter because they reveal personal needs , desires and dreams. Pharo like every other product out there is made to please people and accommodate for these things. Also these discussions are far from exclusive to Pharo. I am coming from Python there there is the Zen of Pharo. " 1. Beautiful is better than ugly. 2. Explicit is better than implicit. 3. Simple is better than complex. 4. Complex is better than complicated. 5. Flat is better than nested. 6. Sparse is better than dense. 7. Readability counts. 8. Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules. 1. Although practicality beats purity. 9. Errors should never pass silently. 1. Unless explicitly silenced. 10. In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess. 11. There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it. 1. Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch. 12. Now is better than never. 1. Although never is often better than *right* now. 13. If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea. 14. If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea. 15. NameSpace <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?NameSpace>s are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those! 16. " This started as a joke from a single guy. Then it was included as a module in python standard library , the moment you import the module it executes a method that prints this text. The joke became something very serious, it is something that many python library authors take as a guide for designing their libraries. This piece of joke has become so serious that currently python libraries uses this set of principles and libraries that don't are labeled by python coders as "unpythonic" which is considered a bad thing. For me this indicates that a community has chosen a path and most importantly a path they have chosen to walk together as one unit. I don't think there is anything stronger than that. On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>wrote: > onierstrasz wrote > > 117 emails since I checked a few hours ago? > > 110 of those were mine, sorry :-P > Signing off for today... > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-renamed-to-MuchTalk-tp4757347p4757349.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

April 30, 2014