February 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Stefan Marr

On 10 Feb 2014, at 21:34, jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu wrote: > I sincerely think your mail closes the issue. Guys, let it rest. Enough harm done. Best regards Stefan

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by jdelgado＠lsi.upc.edu

After all what I have been reading,Â I assumed you Janko had a good case against Stef (I could not imagine what, but, you know, I am biased). But you came up with this. I am with Camille. My first reaction is "really?!?!" (well, it was not that, it was much more... let's say, graphic). So, 2010?!? Now you resurrect something almost four years old?!? What is the problem with you? (BTW I also agree with Igor). I sincerely think your mail closes the issue. No more explanations needed. You could change the subject of the thread and call it "My Name is Janko Mivsek... and this is... Jackass!!!". Sad. Bests Jordi > Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the > community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. > > For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project > selection process. > > Here is the story: > > On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export > Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], > StÃÂ©phane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the > list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to > such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. > Of course I rejected such an order immediately. > > Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade > study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like > between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase > uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve > his goal. > > What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not > quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such > removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that > right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for > stipendiums. > > In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on > GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. > > Best regards > Janko > > [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool > [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas > > > > > Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piÃÂ¡e StÃÂ©phane Ducasse: >> I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko >> but now this makes me sick. >> I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the >> future. >> >> Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you >> don't. >> I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you >> cannot have just words against me. >> I will check with the inria lawyer first. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >>> I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is >>> apparently alone to think that way. >>> It is impressive to see how fragile the community is. >>> Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult >>> situation! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I support it, too. >>>> >>>> The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo >>>> was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! >>>> :) >>>> >>>> So, I suggest this: >>>> - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at >>>> the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem >>>> is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more >>>> structured, and not via mail). >>>> - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that >>>> action happens now. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano >>>> <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> I support this, along with a general require that you keep this >>>> discussion in private. >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin >>>>> and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring >>>>> organisation. >>>>> >>>>> Stephan Eggermont >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > Janko MivÃÂ¡ek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team >

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Trying to change the color of the window

by Esteban Lorenzano

On 10 Feb 2014, at 21:11, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > "Esteban has started a dark theme based on Darcula. > > I am eager to see/get some code based on that as a dark theme is really interesting for me due to eye problems. > > I tried with 2.0 but frankly, it is a massive mess to get things to diplay properly. > > One thing I did to see where things where happening is that I made Color white to respond something like a nuclear green instead of white and see where it was showing. > > Then you can pick the morphs and browse them. That's where you start crying. > > 3.0 should be in a better shape." > > yes its really a huge pile of mess this Morphic and close to no documentation does not make it any easier. It looks like I will not be avoiding creating my own GUI API on top of Athens which has some minimum documentation. Which will make my project tons of work or I will have to port probably back to python and using something like PyQT. I love Pharo and enjoy coding in it, but libraries are seriously hard to use because they are very messy and with very little to none documentation. > > I remember Esteban's dark theme, but I think it was more like an experiment than an ongoing project. oh wellâ¦ is ongoing but with my timesâ¦ I donât know when I will be able to continue it :( Esteban > > "Looks like colors have got a significant change... > > So, try: > > Color registerColor: (Color r: 0.0 g:1.0 b:0.0) named: #white. > > and things will be very green." > > it would not be making much difference because I am not using color names but RGB values. Also I tried your approach, and though I can change white to another color and see the effect on window the color of the window remains unchangeable and I tried all types of Greys. By the way the veryVeryDarkGrey message had me laughing a lot. I propose the additions of the veryVeryVeryVeryVeryDarkGray and superDuperUberMaxGrey to be on the safe side :D > > "Hi. > The default settings are remembered in a class instance variable so that they can be changed according to (user) preference. > > If you make a change to #newDefaultSettings you should send #resetDefaultSettings to your theme class > so that they get reinitialized when next required (when an instance of your theme is next created). > > Hope that helps. > > Regards, Gary" > > Two problem with your proposition > > a) None of the theme classes use this message in the initialisation > > b) MNU > > maybe a Pharo 2 message that went MIA ? > > In any case I continue to study Morphic and see what will come out of this, not so pleasant , experience. Thank you all for your help.

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Trying to change the color of the window

by kilon alios

*"Esteban has started a dark theme based on Darcula.* *I am eager to see/get some code based on that as a dark theme is really interesting for me due to eye problems.* *I tried with 2.0 but frankly, it is a massive mess to get things to diplay properly.* *One thing I did to see where things where happening is that I made Color white to respond something like a nuclear green instead of white and see where it was showing.* *Then you can pick the morphs and browse them. That's where you start crying.* *3.0 should be in a better shape."* yes its really a huge pile of mess this Morphic and close to no documentation does not make it any easier. It looks like I will not be avoiding creating my own GUI API on top of Athens which has some minimum documentation. Which will make my project tons of work or I will have to port probably back to python and using something like PyQT. I love Pharo and enjoy coding in it, but libraries are seriously hard to use because they are very messy and with very little to none documentation. I remember Esteban's dark theme, but I think it was more like an experiment than an ongoing project. *"Looks like colors have got a significant change...* *So, try:* *Color registerColor: (Color r: 0.0 g:1.0 b:0.0) named: #white.* *and things will be very green."* it would not be making much difference because I am not using color names but RGB values. Also I tried your approach, and though I can change white to another color and see the effect on window the color of the window remains unchangeable and I tried all types of Greys. By the way the veryVeryDarkGrey message had me laughing a lot. I propose the additions of the veryVeryVeryVeryVeryDarkGray and superDuperUberMaxGrey to be on the safe side :D *"Hi.* *The default settings are remembered in a class instance variable so that they can be changed according to (user) preference.* *If you make a change to #newDefaultSettings you should send #resetDefaultSettings to your theme class* *so that they get reinitialized when next required (when an instance of your theme is next created).* *Hope that helps.* *Regards, Gary"* Two problem with your proposition a) None of the theme classes use this message in the initialisation b) MNU maybe a Pharo 2 message that went MIA ? In any case I continue to study Morphic and see what will come out of this, not so pleasant , experience. Thank you all for your help.

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Esug-list] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Hi fellow Small-speak-new-talkers! Cross-posting continues... On 02/10/2014 06:47 PM, Gilad Bracha wrote: > I should know better than to get involved in this sad affair. Muaahaa! Fail! :) (yes, I am actually injecting some humor here) > I will note that when the Smalltalk GSoc effort started, I was > *explicitly asked to participate*. I myself noted that Newspeak is > sufficiently different from Smalltalk that it should be regarded as a > different language, but was assured that this effort was designed to be > inclusive of anything in the Smalltalk family. Just to give you +1 on the Smalltalk family part. I mean, hell, we even share the VM! And I am not sure people understand how important this has been for us Squeak/Pharooners, AFAIK a LOT of the work from Eliot has been done through Newspeakish money, right? [SNIP] > I have no interest in starting a flame war here - I have watched the > recent goings on on this list with a feeling of great sadness. I have > done what I can to help Smalltalk, and individuals in that community > (you know who you are) and will continue to do so. Cool! The Smalltalk community is full of passion. Sometimes we end up flaming all out - although very seldom I think compared to many other communities (or so I hear). I have always been proud of that in our community. This time it was sad that it went so far that I fear the main combatants have a hard time getting through and shaking hands in the end?! It also shows how two non-native english writers - both with fast fingers - can really... make a mess :) 3 timesRepeat: [ If you do though - *that* would be the true mark of leaders] regards, GÃ¶ran PS. I decided a looooong time ago after a bad clash with Andreas (rest his soul) that... what the hell, life is too short for political crap! Move on, have fun, write code. So, spent 10 minutes on this post - now back to hacking protobuf support for Squeak and Pharo! Yiha!

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Trying to change the color of the window

by Gary Chambers

Hi. The default settings are remembered in a class instance variable so that they can be changed according to (user) preference. If you make a change to #newDefaultSettings you should send #resetDefaultSettings to your theme class so that they get reinitialized when next required (when an instance of your theme is next created). Hope that helps. Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: kilon alios To: Pharo Development List Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 3:51 PM Subject: [Pharo-dev] Trying to change the color of the window I am trying to make a dark theme for pharo. So I was studying the subclasses of UITheme class. As a first step I want to darken the color of the windows , so I used newDefaultSettings class method to change the color, and I saw no effect. I also even tried to use the right arrow drop down menu that has an entry with window color and still I see no effect. Is this a bug ? I think I remember this used to work in Pharo 3. I am on Pharo 3 and using image 30753 which I fetched today with PharoLauncher. I would like to also ask if there is any documentation of themes and morphic around to help me customize the look its something really crucial for my project Ephestos and I would hate having to recreate Morphic from scratch to do this. Because as it is I find it very hard to understand the methods of UITheme.

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Re: [Esug-list] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Ron Teitelbaum

Hi Janko, So you overrode Stefâs decision, left the project in, and what happened. Did we get a Newspeak / Smalltalk translator? Iâm not sure I agree with Igor here. If someone wanted to do a translator to some other language, that might be cool. Having more ways to integrate with other languages may not be a bad idea. I donât think it would be a project for a student or something that could be properly accomplished during a summer. But I guess that doesnât matter, a summer could get you 80% of the way there. This seems to me to be a difference of opinion and not an ethical lapse or an abuse of power. Stef was right in asking for the suggestion to be removed. You were right to disagree. In both cases it was a judgment call. It seems to me that since the project stayed on the site, that Stef was also quite reasonable. He listened to your objection, he heard your opinion, (he probably disagreed with you), and he let the idea stay on the site. The only thing that may have made this better would have been Stef requesting the removal publically. This transparency would have come at the risk of alienating the Newspeak community which in my mind is still part of the Smalltalk community, and one of the better contributors of code for all of us (considering their current work on Cog and Spur). In that light, I understand the desire to do it privately. In this case, in my opinion, everyone acted ethically. There is no blame to be found. All the best, Ron Teitelbaum Head Of Engineering 3d Immersive Collaboration Consulting ron(a)3dicc.com Follow Me On Twitter: @RonTeitelbaum <https://twitter.com/RonTeitelbaum> www.3dicc.com <http://www.3dicc.com/> https://www.google.com/+3dicc From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 12:15 PM To: Janko MivÅ¡ek Cc: ESUG Mailing list; Pharo Development List; Squeak Subject: [squeak-dev] Re: [Esug-list] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude) On 10 February 2014 17:38, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project selection process. Here is the story: On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], StÃ©phane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. Of course I rejected such an order immediately. Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve his goal. What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for stipendiums. In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. Best regards Janko [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas Lol. Now please think how much curses will be there if this would be allowed. Else why just Newspeak? Why not Ruby, Self, C, C#, Lisp etc.. (i bet there are many mentors/students who would want to paid for doing project in the language of their choice). Except that it is not smalltalk.. and has nothing to do with ESUG mission. And therefore Stef was absolutely correct. Case closed. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Camille Teruel

2010? Really? If there were a problem with GSoC 2010, you should have spoke that through *in 2010*. Bringing back such story as public ad hominem accusations four years later is just useless and harmful, as this flamewar demonstrates. Smalltalk community is too small to afford this kind of tensions. On 10 fÃ©vr. 2014, at 17:38, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the > community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. > > For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project > selection process. > > Here is the story: > > On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export > Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], > StÃ©phane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the > list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to > such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. > Of course I rejected such an order immediately. > > Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade > study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like > between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase > uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve > his goal. > > What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not > quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such > removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that > right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for > stipendiums. > > In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on > GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. > > Best regards > Janko > > [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool > [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas > > > > > Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piÅ¡e StÃ©phane Ducasse: >> I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko but now this makes me sick. >> I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the future. >> >> Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you don't. >> I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you cannot have just words against me. >> I will check with the inria lawyer first. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >>> I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is apparently alone to think that way. >>> It is impressive to see how fragile the community is. >>> Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult situation! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I support it, too. >>>> >>>> The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :) >>>> >>>> So, I suggest this: >>>> - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail). >>>> - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private. >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin >>>>> and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation. >>>>> >>>>> Stephan Eggermont >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team >

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Pharo4Stef

Hi happy (or sad like me today) Smalltalkers and friends for most of you. Thank for the support of some of you. I think that this story is an amazing press for Smalltalk. Iâm still shocked that people do not realise how it can be bad for all of us. Now I have my part of responsibility and I should not have replied to such aggression. But I have one rule in life is to never let people lie about me and my projects. Since I feel that I cannot do much beside being systematically insulted without the right to say anything I will quit the GSOC mentor mailing-list, I will not propose any topics this year and I will set up a rule to any mails with Janko or GSOC to be trashed. Iâm immensely sad for the students that work with me and all the people that trust me and judge me on my acts since all these years. Fools and idiots won. I lost no problem. I prefer to focus on creating good energy. No need to reply because my filter is on and delete everything automatically. Stef In these moments, I wonder why I did not went in ruby. On 10 Feb 2014, at 17:38, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the > community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. > > For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project > selection process. > > Here is the story: > > On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export > Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], > StÃ©phane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the > list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to > such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. > Of course I rejected such an order immediately. > > Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade > study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like > between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase > uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve > his goal. > > What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not > quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such > removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that > right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for > stipendiums. > > In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on > GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. > > Best regards > Janko > > [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool > [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas > > > > > Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piÅ¡e StÃ©phane Ducasse: >> I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko but now this makes me sick. >> I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the future. >> >> Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you don't. >> I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you cannot have just words against me. >> I will check with the inria lawyer first. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >>> I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is apparently alone to think that way. >>> It is impressive to see how fragile the community is. >>> Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult situation! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I support it, too. >>>> >>>> The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :) >>>> >>>> So, I suggest this: >>>> - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail). >>>> - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private. >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin >>>>> and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation. >>>>> >>>>> Stephan Eggermont >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > On 10 Feb 2014, at 17:38, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the > community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. > > For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project > selection process. > > Here is the story: > > On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export > Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], > StÃ©phane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the > list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to > such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. > Of course I rejected such an order immediately. > > Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade > study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like > between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase > uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve > his goal. > > What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not > quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such > removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that > right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for > stipendiums. > > In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on > GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. > > Best regards > Janko > > [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool > [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas > > > > > Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piÅ¡e StÃ©phane Ducasse: >> I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko but now this makes me sick. >> I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the future. >> >> Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you don't. >> I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you cannot have just words against me. >> I will check with the inria lawyer first. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >>> I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is apparently alone to think that way. >>> It is impressive to see how fragile the community is. >>> Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult situation! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I support it, too. >>>> >>>> The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :) >>>> >>>> So, I suggest this: >>>> - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail). >>>> - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private. >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin >>>>> and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation. >>>>> >>>>> Stephan Eggermont >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Esug-list mailing list >>>> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >>>> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team >

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Esug-list] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)

by Igor Stasenko

On 10 February 2014 17:38, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the > community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. > > For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project > selection process. > > Here is the story: > > On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export > Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], > StÃ©phane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the > list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to > such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. > Of course I rejected such an order immediately. > > Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade > study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like > between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase > uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve > his goal. > > What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not > quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such > removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that > right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for > stipendiums. > > In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on > GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. > > Best regards > Janko > > [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool > [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas > > > Lol. Now please think how much curses will be there if this would be allowed. Else why just Newspeak? Why not Ruby, Self, C, C#, Lisp etc.. (i bet there are many mentors/students who would want to paid for doing project in the language of their choice). Except that it is not smalltalk.. and has nothing to do with ESUG mission. And therefore Stef was absolutely correct. Case closed. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 10, 2014