February 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] CMS status

by Norbert Hartl

Am 17.02.2014 um 11:17 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > Phil, > > On 17 Feb 2014, at 10:13, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > >> 2- Process vs on-request >> >> PHP-based solutions mostly have the request->apache->mod_php->scripts->db and back roundtrip. When there is no client, there is no CPU, no nothing used. This allows to pile on users in a shared hosting as there is usually not that much traffic. >> >> With the current Pharo+Seaside combo for example, we do have an always running pharo process taking away CPU cycles. That's not too good for shared hosting and platforms like EC2 where we pay based on that. >> >> >> As my thinking goes, I find interesting to have a FastCGI interface for pure Pharo (until we possibly have a mod_pharo) so that pharo becomes a first class scripting option for simple web applications. With the new command line and environment access, that's not that hard to do. > > FastCGI is a long running process as well, right ? > > It would not be unthinkable to boot a new image when needed and shut it down when it is idle for some time. It takes less then half a second: > > root@stfx:~# time ./pharo Pharo.image printVersion > [version] 3.0 #30203 > > real 0m0.379s > user 0m0.148s > sys 0m0.028s > > Lots of intelligent things could be done, I am just not sure we should compete in this space as I doubt there is any money to be made. > There can always be done a lot. But letâs face it. Amazon is offering different sizes of machines that are charged differently. The smallest one is quite a pain when it comes to latency. Sometimes you will experience half a second or more as latency for a running image. And starting an image on those machines will take a lot longer. What we are talking about are really small projects. If you do the cost calculation then you might see that amazon is not a good fit for these types of applications. The business of amazon works this way because the cloud buzz makes you believe it is cheap but in most situations it is not. S3 being one of the exceptions. Small projects only consume memory and machine/cpu time but not much cycles. So how clever can your approach be if try to make it fit into a business that calculates its cost based on time and memory? :) Norbert

Feb. 17, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Connection closed while waiting for data in bootstrapped image

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 17 Feb 2014, at 11:18, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > ExternalSemaphores table may be not well initialized? I can help having a look this afternoon :) Spoken like someone who has seen a fair bit of the low level parts ! Yes, indeed, that could be it: data comes in on the socket but semaphore is not signalled and/or the image never knows about it and hence thinks no data came in. Good luck. > On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Hi Pavel, > > I just tried on a machine of mine. > > I changed testNetwork.st to > > Transcript show: (ZnClient new logToTranscript; get: 'http://zn.stfx.eu/zn/numbers.txt'); cr. > > That way you get a bit more progress info. As I suspected the request is written and the failure is while reading the response. I tried connecting to a local Zinc server which confirmed this as well: the request comes in on the server and it writes the response. > > This is the output now: > > root@stfx:~# ./pharo PharoKernel.image testNetwork.st > > 2014-02-17 10:00:59 463573 I Wrote a ZnRequest(GET /random) > 2014-02-17 10:00:59 463573 D Sent headers > > User-Agent: Zinc HTTP Components 1.0 > > Accept: */* > > Host: localhost:1701 > > > =============================================================================== > Notice: Errors in script loaded from /root/testNetwork.st > =============================================================================== > Errors in script loaded from /root/testNetwork.st > ==== Startup Error: ConnectionClosed: Connection closed while waiting for data. > Socket>>waitForDataFor: in Block: [ ConnectionClosed signal: 'Connection closed whil...etc... > Socket>>waitForDataFor:ifClosed:ifTimedOut: > Socket>>waitForDataFor: > Socket>>receiveDataSignallingTimeout:into:startingAt: > SocketStream>>receiveData > SocketStream>>next > ZnLineReader>>processNext > ZnLineReader>>nextLine > ZnStatusLine>>readFrom: > ZnStatusLine class>>readFrom: > ZnResponse>>readHeaderFrom: > ZnResponse(ZnMessage)>>readFrom: > ZnResponse class(ZnMessage class)>>readFrom: > ZnClient>>executeRequestResponse > ZnClient>>getConnectionAndExecute in Block: [ self executeRequestResponse ] > BlockClosure>>ensure: > ZnClient>>getConnectionAndExecute > ZnClient>>executeWithRedirectsRemaining: > ZnClient>>executeWithRetriesRemaining: in Block: [ self executeWithRedirectsRemaining: self maxNumb...etc... > BlockClosure>>on:do: > ZnClient>>executeWithRetriesRemaining: > ZnClient>>executeWithTimeout in Block: [ self executeWithRetriesRemaining: self numberOfR...etc... > BlockClosure>>on:do: > ZnClient>>executeWithTimeout in Block: [ ... > ZnClient>>withTimeoutDo: in Block: [ ^ block value ] > ZnConnectionTimeout(DynamicVariable)>>value:during: in Block: > > You are using regular socket streams, which is good. For now I can't think of a reasons why the reading would fail, if I think of something, I will let you know. > > It is pretty hard to debug this way ;-) > > Sven > > On 17 Feb 2014, at 10:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > (NetNameResolver addressForName: 'www.esug.org') returns good value... > > > > -- Pavel > > > > > > 2014-02-17 9:32 GMT+01:00 Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com>: > > Hi, > > > > thank you for the tip. It seems that it is not directly Zinc related. But if you want something to play with, do: > > > > - load the bootstrapped image: > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Pharo-Kernel-3.0/job/PharoKerne… > > > > ./pharo PharoKernel.image fix.st > > ./pharo PharoKernel.image loadNetwork.st > > ./pharo PharoKernel.image testNetwork.st > > > > The CI slaves revolt now so I cannot make it more comfortable :-) > > > > Cheers, > > -- Pavel > > > > > > > > > > 2014-02-16 22:58 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > > > Hi Pavel, > > > > On 16 Feb 2014, at 22:23, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi Sven, > > > > > > we can successfully load network packages to the bootstrapped image but when we try to test it using: > > > > > > ZnClient new get: 'http://zn.stfx.eu/zn/numbers.txt'. > > > > > > we get "ConnectionClosed: Connection closed while waiting for data" error after few seconds. Do you have some idea, what may be wrong? Probably something is not initialized well but I have no clue what. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > -- Pavel > > > > Hard to say. I would guess that you are already on the point of waiting for a server response, so you already successfully initialised networking, resolved DNS, opened a TCP socket and wrote the request over it. On the other hand, one of those steps might not have been done right, since you get no response. > > > > Any chance of a stack trace ? Or an image ? But that would be a headless one I guess ;-) > > > > Sven > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Feb. 17, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Connection closed while waiting for data in bootstrapped image

by Guillermo Polito

ExternalSemaphores table may be not well initialized? I can help having a look this afternoon :) On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: > Hi Pavel, > > I just tried on a machine of mine. > > I changed testNetwork.st to > > Transcript show: (ZnClient new logToTranscript; get: ' > http://zn.stfx.eu/zn/numbers.txt'); cr. > > That way you get a bit more progress info. As I suspected the request is > written and the failure is while reading the response. I tried connecting > to a local Zinc server which confirmed this as well: the request comes in > on the server and it writes the response. > > This is the output now: > > root@stfx:~# ./pharo PharoKernel.image testNetwork.st > > 2014-02-17 10:00:59 463573 I Wrote a ZnRequest(GET /random) > 2014-02-17 10:00:59 463573 D Sent headers > > User-Agent: Zinc HTTP Components 1.0 > > Accept: */* > > Host: localhost:1701 > > > > =============================================================================== > Notice: Errors in script loaded from /root/testNetwork.st > > =============================================================================== > Errors in script loaded from /root/testNetwork.st > ==== Startup Error: ConnectionClosed: Connection closed while waiting for > data. > Socket>>waitForDataFor: in Block: [ ConnectionClosed signal: 'Connection > closed whil...etc... > Socket>>waitForDataFor:ifClosed:ifTimedOut: > Socket>>waitForDataFor: > Socket>>receiveDataSignallingTimeout:into:startingAt: > SocketStream>>receiveData > SocketStream>>next > ZnLineReader>>processNext > ZnLineReader>>nextLine > ZnStatusLine>>readFrom: > ZnStatusLine class>>readFrom: > ZnResponse>>readHeaderFrom: > ZnResponse(ZnMessage)>>readFrom: > ZnResponse class(ZnMessage class)>>readFrom: > ZnClient>>executeRequestResponse > ZnClient>>getConnectionAndExecute in Block: [ self executeRequestResponse ] > BlockClosure>>ensure: > ZnClient>>getConnectionAndExecute > ZnClient>>executeWithRedirectsRemaining: > ZnClient>>executeWithRetriesRemaining: in Block: [ self > executeWithRedirectsRemaining: self maxNumb...etc... > BlockClosure>>on:do: > ZnClient>>executeWithRetriesRemaining: > ZnClient>>executeWithTimeout in Block: [ self executeWithRetriesRemaining: > self numberOfR...etc... > BlockClosure>>on:do: > ZnClient>>executeWithTimeout in Block: [ ... > ZnClient>>withTimeoutDo: in Block: [ ^ block value ] > ZnConnectionTimeout(DynamicVariable)>>value:during: in Block: > > You are using regular socket streams, which is good. For now I can't think > of a reasons why the reading would fail, if I think of something, I will > let you know. > > It is pretty hard to debug this way ;-) > > Sven > > On 17 Feb 2014, at 10:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > (NetNameResolver addressForName: 'www.esug.org') returns good value... > > > > -- Pavel > > > > > > 2014-02-17 9:32 GMT+01:00 Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com>: > > Hi, > > > > thank you for the tip. It seems that it is not directly Zinc related. > But if you want something to play with, do: > > > > - load the bootstrapped image: > > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Pharo-Kernel-3.0/job/PharoKerne… > > > > ./pharo PharoKernel.image fix.st > > ./pharo PharoKernel.image loadNetwork.st > > ./pharo PharoKernel.image testNetwork.st > > > > The CI slaves revolt now so I cannot make it more comfortable :-) > > > > Cheers, > > -- Pavel > > > > > > > > > > 2014-02-16 22:58 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > > > Hi Pavel, > > > > On 16 Feb 2014, at 22:23, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Hi Sven, > > > > > > we can successfully load network packages to the bootstrapped image > but when we try to test it using: > > > > > > ZnClient new get: 'http://zn.stfx.eu/zn/numbers.txt'. > > > > > > we get "ConnectionClosed: Connection closed while waiting for data" > error after few seconds. Do you have some idea, what may be wrong? Probably > something is not initialized well but I have no clue what. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > -- Pavel > > > > Hard to say. I would guess that you are already on the point of waiting > for a server response, so you already successfully initialised networking, > resolved DNS, opened a TCP socket and wrote the request over it. On the > other hand, one of those steps might not have been done right, since you > get no response. > > > > Any chance of a stack trace ? Or an image ? But that would be a headless > one I guess ;-) > > > > Sven > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Feb. 17, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] CMS status

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Phil, On 17 Feb 2014, at 10:13, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > 2- Process vs on-request > > PHP-based solutions mostly have the request->apache->mod_php->scripts->db and back roundtrip. When there is no client, there is no CPU, no nothing used. This allows to pile on users in a shared hosting as there is usually not that much traffic. > > With the current Pharo+Seaside combo for example, we do have an always running pharo process taking away CPU cycles. That's not too good for shared hosting and platforms like EC2 where we pay based on that. > > > As my thinking goes, I find interesting to have a FastCGI interface for pure Pharo (until we possibly have a mod_pharo) so that pharo becomes a first class scripting option for simple web applications. With the new command line and environment access, that's not that hard to do. FastCGI is a long running process as well, right ? It would not be unthinkable to boot a new image when needed and shut it down when it is idle for some time. It takes less then half a second: root@stfx:~# time ./pharo Pharo.image printVersion [version] 3.0 #30203 real 0m0.379s user 0m0.148s sys 0m0.028s Lots of intelligent things could be done, I am just not sure we should compete in this space as I doubt there is any money to be made. Sven

Feb. 17, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Connection closed while waiting for data in bootstrapped image

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi Pavel, I just tried on a machine of mine. I changed testNetwork.st to Transcript show: (ZnClient new logToTranscript; get: 'http://zn.stfx.eu/zn/numbers.txt'); cr. That way you get a bit more progress info. As I suspected the request is written and the failure is while reading the response. I tried connecting to a local Zinc server which confirmed this as well: the request comes in on the server and it writes the response. This is the output now: root@stfx:~# ./pharo PharoKernel.image testNetwork.st 2014-02-17 10:00:59 463573 I Wrote a ZnRequest(GET /random) 2014-02-17 10:00:59 463573 D Sent headers User-Agent: Zinc HTTP Components 1.0 Accept: */* Host: localhost:1701 =============================================================================== Notice: Errors in script loaded from /root/testNetwork.st =============================================================================== Errors in script loaded from /root/testNetwork.st ==== Startup Error: ConnectionClosed: Connection closed while waiting for data. Socket>>waitForDataFor: in Block: [ ConnectionClosed signal: 'Connection closed whil...etc... Socket>>waitForDataFor:ifClosed:ifTimedOut: Socket>>waitForDataFor: Socket>>receiveDataSignallingTimeout:into:startingAt: SocketStream>>receiveData SocketStream>>next ZnLineReader>>processNext ZnLineReader>>nextLine ZnStatusLine>>readFrom: ZnStatusLine class>>readFrom: ZnResponse>>readHeaderFrom: ZnResponse(ZnMessage)>>readFrom: ZnResponse class(ZnMessage class)>>readFrom: ZnClient>>executeRequestResponse ZnClient>>getConnectionAndExecute in Block: [ self executeRequestResponse ] BlockClosure>>ensure: ZnClient>>getConnectionAndExecute ZnClient>>executeWithRedirectsRemaining: ZnClient>>executeWithRetriesRemaining: in Block: [ self executeWithRedirectsRemaining: self maxNumb...etc... BlockClosure>>on:do: ZnClient>>executeWithRetriesRemaining: ZnClient>>executeWithTimeout in Block: [ self executeWithRetriesRemaining: self numberOfR...etc... BlockClosure>>on:do: ZnClient>>executeWithTimeout in Block: [ ... ZnClient>>withTimeoutDo: in Block: [ ^ block value ] ZnConnectionTimeout(DynamicVariable)>>value:during: in Block: You are using regular socket streams, which is good. For now I can't think of a reasons why the reading would fail, if I think of something, I will let you know. It is pretty hard to debug this way ;-) Sven On 17 Feb 2014, at 10:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > (NetNameResolver addressForName: 'www.esug.org') returns good value... > > -- Pavel > > > 2014-02-17 9:32 GMT+01:00 Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > > thank you for the tip. It seems that it is not directly Zinc related. But if you want something to play with, do: > > - load the bootstrapped image: > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Pharo-Kernel-3.0/job/PharoKerne… > > ./pharo PharoKernel.image fix.st > ./pharo PharoKernel.image loadNetwork.st > ./pharo PharoKernel.image testNetwork.st > > The CI slaves revolt now so I cannot make it more comfortable :-) > > Cheers, > -- Pavel > > > > > 2014-02-16 22:58 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > Hi Pavel, > > On 16 Feb 2014, at 22:23, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Sven, > > > > we can successfully load network packages to the bootstrapped image but when we try to test it using: > > > > ZnClient new get: 'http://zn.stfx.eu/zn/numbers.txt'. > > > > we get "ConnectionClosed: Connection closed while waiting for data" error after few seconds. Do you have some idea, what may be wrong? Probably something is not initialized well but I have no clue what. > > > > Cheers, > > -- Pavel > > Hard to say. I would guess that you are already on the point of waiting for a server response, so you already successfully initialised networking, resolved DNS, opened a TCP socket and wrote the request over it. On the other hand, one of those steps might not have been done right, since you get no response. > > Any chance of a stack trace ? Or an image ? But that would be a headless one I guess ;-) > > Sven > > > > >

Feb. 17, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] CMS status

by Norbert Hartl

Am 17.02.2014 um 10:13 schrieb phil(a)highoctane.be: > With the current Pharo+Seaside combo for example, we do have an always running pharo process taking away CPU cycles. That's not too good for shared hosting and platforms like EC2 where we pay based on that. > Amazons ec2 is paid based on running machine hours not on cpu cycles. Norbert

Feb. 17, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] VM SVN -> Git import somewhere?

by Esteban Lorenzano

On 17 Feb 2014, at 11:04, Tobias Pape <Das.Linux(a)gmx.de> wrote: > On 17.02.2014, at 11:00, Stefan Marr <smalltalk(a)stefan-marr.de> wrote: > >> Hi: >> >> Is there somewhere a cronjob running that imports the latest changes of the VMâs SVN tree into git? >> Or could someone give me a hint, how I should set up a proper git-svn remote so that I can easily merge changes from Eliotâs Cog branch into the git repository? >> Donât want to lose the history, and convenience of the git tools, but I need some changes to the Bochs plugin that are not in the git repository yet. > > > Can you just give a short hint _which_ git repo you are referring to? > TMK there are more than oneâ¦ there is only one: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm the other are or forks or old stuff. Esteban > > Best > -Tobias

Feb. 17, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] VM SVN -> Git import somewhere?

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi Stefan, Camillo is your guy :) Esteban On 17 Feb 2014, at 11:00, Stefan Marr <smalltalk(a)stefan-marr.de> wrote: > > Hi: > > Is there somewhere a cronjob running that imports the latest changes of the VMâs SVN tree into git? > Or could someone give me a hint, how I should set up a proper git-svn remote so that I can easily merge changes from Eliotâs Cog branch into the git repository? > Donât want to lose the history, and convenience of the git tools, but I need some changes to the Bochs plugin that are not in the git repository yet. > > Thanks > Stefan > > -- > Stefan Marr > INRIA Lille - Nord Europe > http://stefan-marr.de/research/ > > >

Feb. 17, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] VM SVN -> Git import somewhere?

by Tobias Pape

On 17.02.2014, at 11:00, Stefan Marr <smalltalk(a)stefan-marr.de> wrote: > Hi: > > Is there somewhere a cronjob running that imports the latest changes of the VMâs SVN tree into git? > Or could someone give me a hint, how I should set up a proper git-svn remote so that I can easily merge changes from Eliotâs Cog branch into the git repository? > Donât want to lose the history, and convenience of the git tools, but I need some changes to the Bochs plugin that are not in the git repository yet. Can you just give a short hint _which_ git repo you are referring to? TMK there are more than oneâ¦ Best -Tobias

Feb. 17, 2014

VM SVN -> Git import somewhere?

by Stefan Marr

Hi: Is there somewhere a cronjob running that imports the latest changes of the VMâs SVN tree into git? Or could someone give me a hint, how I should set up a proper git-svn remote so that I can easily merge changes from Eliotâs Cog branch into the git repository? Donât want to lose the history, and convenience of the git tools, but I need some changes to the Bochs plugin that are not in the git repository yet. Thanks Stefan -- Stefan Marr INRIA Lille - Nord Europe http://stefan-marr.de/research/

Feb. 17, 2014