February 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[ANN] Objective Smalltalk

by Sebastian Sastre

It seems there is an Objective-C with Smalltalk syntax: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7161566 Vote up! sebastian o/

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Sebastian Sastre

On Feb 1, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > Yes, something like this would be great. If it's a consolation: this kind of problem is present throughout the programming language research community. There's a great paper by Hanenberg on that. It's called "Faith, hope, and love: an essay on software science's neglect of human factors". (OOPSLA 2010) Well worth the read! thanks for the reference Johan. Introducing mature slots in a clean easy to understand UI is great. My problem is with introducing innovation poorly It can be traits, new API, you name it

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Comparing dates

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Sebastian, In my 3.0 image | today | today := Date today. (today translateTo: 2 hours) = today. => false But what are you trying to accomplish ? Dates are a bit ambiguous: my Feb 1st and your Feb 1st, in one sense they are the same, refer to the same date, but in another sense, yours started at a different point in time, right ? So are they equal ? Sven On 01 Feb 2014, at 14:01, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > Can somebody please clarify if this is a bug or feature? > > thanks > > > > > On Jan 31, 2014, at 9:03 PM, Sebastian Sastre <SEBASTIAN(a)FLOWINGCONCEPT.COM> wrote: > >> self assert: Date today = Date today. >> >> today := Date today translateTo: 2 hours. >> self assert: today = Date today >> >> Is this right? >> >> >> >> > >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ZTimestamp>>monthName spelling error

by Sabine KnÃ¶fel

Hi Sven, thank you for the quick fix. It works fine now. I do not call this directly but from DateAndTime date: self endDate time: self endTime Your example: I am no english native speaker but I assume, that 'saterday' should be spelled as 'saturday'. If yes, there are several occurences of saterday. I saw this when trying your example: (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saterday, 3 February, 2001') german; format: Date today. ==>>'Samstag, 1 Februar, 2014' (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saturday, 3 February, 2001') german; format: Date today. ==>>'Samurday, 1 Februar, 2014' Also, 'Samurday' is no german word. 'Saturday' means 'Samstag' in German. Regards Sabine On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Sabine, > > On 01 Feb 2014, at 12:52, Sabine KnÃ¶fel <sabine.knoefel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Sven, > > > > could you change Februari into February please? > > Ah, terrible typo, it was all over the place. > > === > Name: ZTimestamp-SvenVanCaekenberghe.32 > Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe > Time: 1 February 2014, 1:27:02.50151 pm > UUID: 70fd3b88-e15e-4139-922c-9c602e3fc532 > Ancestors: ZTimestamp-SvenVanCaekenberghe.31 > > The English spelling of the 2nd month name was consistently wrong: > Februari instead of the correct February (thx Sabine KnÃ¶fel); > Now use #monthIndex instead of the less consistent #month > === > > Btw, did you know you can do: > > (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saterday, 3 February, 2001') > german; > format: Date today. > > => 'Samstag, 1 Februar, 2014' > > Regards, > > Sven > > > (I use http://mc.stfx.eu/Neo, this is the right place?) > > > > Regards > > Sabine > > > > ZTimestamp>>monthName > > "Return the English name of the month of the receiver, according > to the > > Gregorian calendar, a Symbol" > > > > ^ #(January Februari March April May June July August September > October > > November December) at: self monthIndex > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/ZTimestamp-monthName-spelling-error-tp4740821.html > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

On Feb 1, 2014, at 10:58 AM, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > > On Feb 1, 2014, at 11:37 AM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > >> For what it's worth: this was asked on the users list (some months ago). There were about 5 replies and they were positive. I do not recall having any negative replies. >> >> I think that asking much more than that is hard, given the nature of mailing lists and the comity being busy with many other things. > > Yeah we are totally exposed to the problem of having ~null usability tests so our UI are non-designers attempts to get it incrementally right > > Thatâs a hard one. > > We really need help from design universities students Yes, something like this would be great. If it's a consolation: this kind of problem is present throughout the programming language research community. There's a great paper by Hanenberg on that. It's called "Faith, hope, and love: an essay on software science's neglect of human factors". (OOPSLA 2010) Well worth the read! ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

On Feb 1, 2014, at 9:32 AM, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: >> I donât give any lectures to students but I often try to âteachâ Smalltalk to some of my colleagues and friends. And with that I have hard times. >> Typically âexperiencedâ software developers think about themselves as being experts in object orientation and programming languages, >> even if they have only experiences with C, C# and C++. âTeachingâ them about Smalltalkâs idea of object orientation is VERY hard, almost >> impossible because they already know everything (read: they are ignorant) and lazy. I guess there are some similarities to students. > > +1 on this There are some kinds of students who are going to find Smalltalk difficult, yes. I do not see how removing pooldictionaries from the class creation template will affect them. If they ask about them, you can say that they are there and point them to the new class creation message. And take advantage of that to say that class creation is just a message send while you are at it :-) >> Newcomers donât use a lot of things but that should not be a reason to hide them. In my experience newcomers need guidance and rules but >> âoldtimersâ need freedom. This is one of the reasons I really enjoy dynamic typing and Smalltalk. I donât like to obey to artificial rules that only >> put permanent burden to me in order to protect me from something I might do wrong sometimes. You still have the freedom to use pool dictionaries. They are still there. >> At the moment I am considering pool dictionaries for a solution of a problem at hand: I need to collect some information (warnings, errors, and reports) over lots of related and unrelated classes. For the moment I have parameters, but that is getting inconvenient with a growing number of things to collectâ¦ >> So, if you need something it should be there and not necessarily obscured and hidden! >> > > If you donât see features you donât know what the machine can do for you. > > Obscuring things is sometimes a good design strategy, but here there is a well known artefact breaking tradition here, that isnât something light. And the proposed alternative design is far to be better (read: have been proven itself worth of its added burden of breaking that tradition) So if we cannot break tradition then Traits should never have been introduced? > Students shouldnât be underestimated they can handle ignoring what they donât need, no problem If I would have infinite time, and they as well, sure! Be we don't and we need to focus. >> Yes, but itâs not there yet but this change already took away some power without giving me back something in exchange! >> I am able to ignore some parts of class creation message easily (I also donât use class variables that often) and I donât see why students >> shouldnât be able, too. Quite contrary I think if you hide these things from students they wonât see it, wonât get curious and in the end will only >> learn the boring parts of Smalltalkâ¦ >> > Yeah, youâre not the only one with that perception. > > This move sucks. It allegedly solved a problem that allegedly happens to some by creating a problem for almost everybody. I have an issue with your "problem for almost everybody" statement. Pooldictionaries are rarely used. Look at the classes in the image. Can you argument why this then is a problem for almost everybody ? I do not see how you get to this conclusion. > Itâs a half-ass non-solution > > Do you really love cleaning that up? This half-assed non-solution is the same solution as for Traits, essentially. Do you have the same issue with Traits? > The second part of your homework on this design decision was completely ignored so expecting it to be loved (popular) is unrealistic > > And by not doing that you just added a problem where there was none > > Not willing to do that second part? > > Then donât fix what isnât broken. Please see previous mail. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Sebastian Sastre

On Feb 1, 2014, at 11:37 AM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > For what it's worth: this was asked on the users list (some months ago). There were about 5 replies and they were positive. I do not recall having any negative replies. > > I think that asking much more than that is hard, given the nature of mailing lists and the comity being busy with many other things. Yeah we are totally exposed to the problem of having ~null usability tests so our UI are non-designers attempts to get it incrementally right Thatâs a hard one. We really need help from design universities students

Feb. 1, 2014

Pharo on Debian 7 with Zeroconf > failing with the dreaded GLIBC 2.15 error

by phil＠highoctane.be

I tried to use zeroconf with Debian 7 (vmLatest and vm Stable) and both failed. There is the GLIBC 2.15 error. 2.15 is on Ubuntu but on Debian ldd --version gives 2.13 So, is there any slave job on the CI that builds for this platform? Phil

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Yet another week of commits

by Tudor Girba

Hmm, maybe it's not so wrong after all: perhaps it wanted to associate it with "sexy" :) Doru On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > Am 31.01.2014 um 20:21 schrieb blake <dsblakewatson(a)gmail.com>: > > Websense categorizes "association.pharo.org" as "sex". > > That should help attract new people :) > > Norbert > > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> Another week of improvements >> >> http://association.pharo.org/web/weekly/Commits-Jan-3 >> >> stef >> > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

Please note that the change IS at the Nautilus level. The default class description is the same as before! Your class porting example is unharmed by this change. On Feb 1, 2014, at 7:16 AM, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > Shortening the default class description is also painfull when you port code, because it makes the class appear different (description with and without pool dictionaries) in the change sorter. I wrote a pac change reader to port SmaCC from Dolphin to Pharo, and, really, this kind of change makes that unusable. > > In short, make that change correctly: at the Nautilus level. It's a GUI issue, not a language issue. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 1, 2014