December 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Does Monticello try to install shared pools before methods using them?

by Chris Muller

I'm pretty sure the responsibility falls to the loader. I'm not too familiar with it but if I wanted to be I would probably start tracing from McVersionLoader. Do your pool references end up being valid? That is the most important but I agree it would be an annoyance to see those messages in the Transcript. On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 7:24 AM, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: > > Hoi-- > > I'm attempting to create a Monticello package which provides a > shared pool (as a subclass of SharedPool) and methods which use its > variables. On installation, does Monticello try to ensure that a pool is > installed before methods which use it? When I install the package in a > fresh system, I get messages on the Transcript complaining that shared > variables are undefined. > > Is there some way one fiddles with the writing process, or with the > package after it is written, to avoid ordering problems? > > > thanks! > > -C > > -- > Craig Latta > netjam.org > +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) > + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS) > >

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

by Andreas Wacknitz

> Am 08.12.2014 um 20:36 schrieb Andreas Wacknitz <a.wacknitz(a)gmx.de>: > > >> Am 08.12.2014 um 20:27 schrieb Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: >> >> Hi Andreas, >> >> With all due respect for the other Smalltalk (inspired or genuine) environments, I have no intention of waiting for them in order to define the way forward. > Itâs not about respect for the other Smalltalk environments but for those who work sometimes outside the Pharo world. And you donât have to wait for anybody. We are talking about the name and not the features. > As I said: the changes donât justify a new name in my eyes. For me what you call GTPlayground is a better workspace than the original one. It will replace the workspace (in Pharo) for me > but it is still a workspace. > >> >> Our "battle" is with the non-Smalltalk world. This is what we need to convince. And that world does not care about the history of Smalltalk. It cares about how we can solve their problem. That's all. >> > My experience is that the non-Smalltalk ignorant and GTPlayground, as good as it is, will not convince many people. Itâs simply too low-level. Hm, I should have proof read this before hitting the send button: My experience is that the (non-Smalltalk) world is ignorantâ¦ > > Regards > Andreas > >> Cheers, >> Doru > >

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

by Andreas Wacknitz

> Am 08.12.2014 um 20:27 schrieb Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > Hi Andreas, > > With all due respect for the other Smalltalk (inspired or genuine) environments, I have no intention of waiting for them in order to define the way forward. Itâs not about respect for the other Smalltalk environments but for those who work sometimes outside the Pharo world. And you donât have to wait for anybody. We are talking about the name and not the features. As I said: the changes donât justify a new name in my eyes. For me what you call GTPlayground is a better workspace than the original one. It will replace the workspace (in Pharo) for me but it is still a workspace. > > Our "battle" is with the non-Smalltalk world. This is what we need to convince. And that world does not care about the history of Smalltalk. It cares about how we can solve their problem. That's all. > My experience is that the non-Smalltalk ignorant and GTPlayground, as good as it is, will not convince many people. Itâs simply too low-level. Regards Andreas > Cheers, > Doru

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

by Tudor Girba

Hi Andreas, With all due respect for the other Smalltalk (inspired or genuine) environments, I have no intention of waiting for them in order to define the way forward. Our "battle" is with the non-Smalltalk world. This is what we need to convince. And that world does not care about the history of Smalltalk. It cares about how we can solve their problem. That's all. Cheers, Doru On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Andreas Wacknitz <a.wacknitz(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > > Am 08.12.2014 um 07:18 schrieb Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > > > Hi, > > > > As you might see, the GTPlayground is called playground not workspace. > The main reason for this is that workspace implies the place where work is > done, and work is typically associated with creating code. > For me GTPlayground is a replacement of the workspace. At the moment this > is obviously so: the workspace menu item has been replaced by the one for > the Playground. > The term Workspace is widely known in the Smalltalk community. Donât > change the name just because you put some enhancements to it. > > > > > This is not the intention of the workspace. > > > > Workspace also comes with a history that is associated with actual > implementations. While the current GTPlayground might appear to be similar > to the workspace, I think the way you can use the latter produces a > significant shift. > > > > Furthermore, I think the term playground is more inline with the idea of > "playing with live objects". And, in the future, the implementation will > likely evolve towards even more liveliness. > > > > It is for this reason that I would prefer that the World menu item gets > renamed to Playground. > > > > What do you think? > I like the enhancements but I donât like the new name. Only time will tell > if the ideas of GTPlayground will be adapted by other Smalltalks and then > it would be the right time to talk about a better name than workspace. > > Regards > Andreas > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Excel binding

by blake

You could probably do it with Redline Smalltalk via Apache POI. On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 6:22 AM, Blondeau Vincent < vincent.blondeau(a)worldline.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > > Does someone know if there is a mean to access Excel sheets from Pharo to > get data? > > I donât want to use .csv files but .xls/.xlsx files. > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > Cheers, > > > > Vincent BLONDEAU > > > > ------------------------------ > > Ce message et les piÃ¨ces jointes sont confidentiels et rÃ©servÃ©s Ã l'usage > exclusif de ses destinataires. Il peut Ã©galement Ãªtre protÃ©gÃ© par le secret > professionnel. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci d'en avertir > immÃ©diatement l'expÃ©diteur et de le dÃ©truire. L'intÃ©gritÃ© du message ne > pouvant Ãªtre assurÃ©e sur Internet, la responsabilitÃ© de Worldline ne pourra > Ãªtre recherchÃ©e quant au contenu de ce message. Bien que les meilleurs > efforts soient faits pour maintenir cette transmission exempte de tout > virus, l'expÃ©diteur ne donne aucune garantie Ã cet Ã©gard et sa > responsabilitÃ© ne saurait Ãªtre recherchÃ©e pour tout dommage rÃ©sultant d'un > virus transmis. > > This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended > solely for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this > e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As > its integrity cannot be secured on the Internet, the Worldline liability > cannot be triggered for the message content. Although the sender endeavours > to maintain a computer virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that > this transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages > resulting from any virus transmitted. >

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

by Tudor Girba

Indeed :). However, it is precisely those different opinions that are valuable even if it is uncomfortable for the one that proposes a new solution. Cheers, Doru On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 2:18 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > This is amazing to see such many different opinions. For me, I would keep > it innovative and breaking with its legacy. Playground for all! No more > workspaces! And yeah, we will have to write new book about that. We are > already working on this! > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > > On Dec 8, 2014, at 3:18 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > As you might see, the GTPlayground is called playground not workspace. > The main reason for this is that workspace implies the place where work is > done, and work is typically associated with creating code. > > > > This is not the intention of the workspace. > > > > Workspace also comes with a history that is associated with actual > implementations. While the current GTPlayground might appear to be similar > to the workspace, I think the way you can use the latter produces a > significant shift. > > > > Furthermore, I think the term playground is more inline with the idea of > "playing with live objects". And, in the future, the implementation will > likely evolve towards even more liveliness. > > > > It is for this reason that I would prefer that the World menu item gets > renamed to Playground. > > > > What do you think? > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

by Andreas Wacknitz

> Am 08.12.2014 um 07:18 schrieb Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > Hi, > > As you might see, the GTPlayground is called playground not workspace. The main reason for this is that workspace implies the place where work is done, and work is typically associated with creating code. For me GTPlayground is a replacement of the workspace. At the moment this is obviously so: the workspace menu item has been replaced by the one for the Playground. The term Workspace is widely known in the Smalltalk community. Donât change the name just because you put some enhancements to it. > > This is not the intention of the workspace. > > Workspace also comes with a history that is associated with actual implementations. While the current GTPlayground might appear to be similar to the workspace, I think the way you can use the latter produces a significant shift. > > Furthermore, I think the term playground is more inline with the idea of "playing with live objects". And, in the future, the implementation will likely evolve towards even more liveliness. > > It is for this reason that I would prefer that the World menu item gets renamed to Playground. > > What do you think? I like the enhancements but I donât like the new name. Only time will tell if the ideas of GTPlayground will be adapted by other Smalltalks and then it would be the right time to talk about a better name than workspace. Regards Andreas

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

by Tudor Girba

Hi, On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 4:51 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > >And Playground would match so well the marketing term of "playing with > live objects". > > Sorry - but to me it looks like you were catched too much into: now we > have to be more modern > or rival with all this "lively" stuff (Lighttable IDE, Apple Swift, ...). > We all know > that being "lively" is something Smalltalk had already years ago and in > the best way one > can do it. It's not. Smalltalk model is live, the ui has always been crappy. We have to catch up and stop pretending we are in front because we are not. We can be and we will be, but there is plenty of hard work in front of us. >You might say that Playground is not the only place where people can play > with objects, but > > Same argument against Workspace is an argument against Playground then. > Any reason > you did not continue after your "but"? > > Sorry. Your mail was too long and I missed this one :). I wanted to say that people can play in the playground, but also play in other places. It is not the same with the usual meaning of work: work is done in the work place / work space. > >Not all. Swift calls it Playground (yes, they copied us ;)) > > Because Swift uses this does mean ... (***drumrol***) ... NOTHING. Will we > rename BlockClosures > to Closures now? Or introduce curly braces? ;) > I did not say that. I simply said that not all environments use the term Workspace. >You are looking at it from a technical point of view. Yes, it's just a > merge of two features, > >but it is the end experience that is so much different. > > You said it yourself: we just present it differently. Nothing more. Does a > concept really justify > a new name if only presented differently? > It's not "just". It's key. It really is :). We have to stop being programmers for a second if we want to produce a proper user experience. Users do not care about what it takes technically. They care about their mental models. This is what has significantly changed. > I really doubt! Otherwise we would have had to rename the concept of a > "System Browser" anytime > we improved the end user experience (which differs also if you compare old > style Squeak browsers > and new Nautilus implementation). Nautilus is a name of a specific system browser, not a concept. It never wanted to be anything else than a System Browser. Btw, the future coding solution will unlikely be called System Browser - :). >That is why I think we have conceptually a different solution than we ever > had. > > I do not see where it is different now. Diving into object was alway > possible with existing tools. That is not the point. That's a technical detail. The fact that I can get several times faster in creating a visualization or in playing with a query script is what matters. > >>3. There is a "Workspace open" but no "Playground open" possibility. > > I think I do not get this point. What do you mean? > > Evaluate > > "Workspace open" => it opens a window > > "Playground open" => not defined It is defined: GTPlayground open Still, where does this argument fit? >>4. Having two separate tools "Workspace" and "Playground" with nearly > similar > >> goals (write scripts and inspect objects) would be confusing for > newbees. > >> > >>Maybe we could set up a "community voting" somewhere. > > > >Perhaps. > > If we would like to work as a community and respect other opinions it would > make sense. > I think this is what the mail was all about, was it not? > So far I guess there are three options discussed: > > a) Keep existing "Workspace" tool and add additional "Playground" tool > b) One tool with new name "Playground" (no workspace) > c) One tool with known name "Workspace" by renaming the Playground tool > Sure. But, this makes some sense only after we have laid out arguments which is what we do right now. > >Good point! Can you add a bug issue for this? > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14578/Ask-before-saving-in-the-cloud > > Thanks! Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Excel binding

by Markus Fritsche

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Excel binding

by Blondeau Vincent

De : Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] De la part de Esteban A. Maringolo EnvoyÃ© : lundi 8 dÃ©cembre 2014 16:01 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Excel binding El Mon Dec 08 2014 at 11:41:23 AM, Markus Fritsche <mfritsche(a)reauktion.de<mailto:mfritsche@reauktion.de>> escribiÃ³: On 2014-12-08 15:22, Blondeau Vincent wrote: > Does someone know if there is a mean to access Excel sheets from Pharo > to get data? > I don't want to use .csv files but .xls/.xlsx files. If you're just going to use .xlsx files, it might be possible to unzip the file and peek the xml representation of that table (not that I've done it though). If you're going to support .xls / Excel < 2003 files, you will probably need a COM-bridge. I remember that I've seen it for Squeak in the past, I don't recall having seen it for Pharo. I see it here: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/COM.html/Overview?_s=nm1ShYEJFkyZYmBY&_k=rAHtcYs… Could I have access to the code please? Thanks in advance, Vincent Another kind of hackish solution could be setting up an ODBC driver for Excel files and then using DBXTalk/ODBC or the ConfigurationOfODBC-based package. All of this assuming you're running Pharo in Windows. Regards! ________________________________ Ce message et les piÃ¨ces jointes sont confidentiels et rÃ©servÃ©s Ã l'usage exclusif de ses destinataires. Il peut Ã©galement Ãªtre protÃ©gÃ© par le secret professionnel. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci d'en avertir immÃ©diatement l'expÃ©diteur et de le dÃ©truire. L'intÃ©gritÃ© du message ne pouvant Ãªtre assurÃ©e sur Internet, la responsabilitÃ© de Worldline ne pourra Ãªtre recherchÃ©e quant au contenu de ce message. Bien que les meilleurs efforts soient faits pour maintenir cette transmission exempte de tout virus, l'expÃ©diteur ne donne aucune garantie Ã cet Ã©gard et sa responsabilitÃ© ne saurait Ãªtre recherchÃ©e pour tout dommage rÃ©sultant d'un virus transmis. This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended solely for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As its integrity cannot be secured on the Internet, the Worldline liability cannot be triggered for the message content. Although the sender endeavours to maintain a computer virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that this transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages resulting from any virus transmitted.

Dec. 8, 2014