December 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Renaissance Program

by Ben Coman

On Wednesday, December 31, 2014, Ben Coman wrote: > > > On Wednesday, December 31, 2014, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com');>> wrote: > >> And, yes, I did not do my most thorough homework regarding Pharo, as >> several >> of you have pointed out. Frankly, I don't have /that/ much time and >> energy. >> I'm old and retired. I'm just doing this for pleasure. >> >> So I rely on /you/ to set me straight. > > > In process :) > > >> I remind you that I'm just the >> coordinator of the campaign, because I'm sure none of you have that much >> time to do what I'm doing. > > > > > >> >> Marcus suggested that anyone can create a Google+ page, but he misses the >> point. The Google+ page is just one brick in the foundation of the >> campaign. >> It's part of a whole. >> >> Norbert suggests that I think I know what to do. No, I have ideas and I >> have >> a plan. There's no guarantee that it will work. Either you buy into my >> plan, >> or you don't. Either I have your support, or I don't. If the latter, I >> shan't waste any more time (yours or mind). >> >> > > It's not just a matter of time, but inclination. If you are inclined to >> do this, then it should be supported - but it's a matter of getting the >> PR message aligned with the technical vision. We don't want the market >> being told one thing then getting a different message here in-list. So >> you made a misstep here. That's okay, you learn more that way than doing >> nothing. It may take some more back-n-forth. I hope you continue. > > > -Ben > >

Dec. 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Renaissance Program

by horrido

What else would you like me to do, in addition to what I've already described? stepharo wrote > Le 30/12/14 15:37, horrido a Ã©crit : >> Smalltalk needs an edge. I'm trying to give you that edge. Do you want >> it? > > build trust by doing. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Renaissance-Program-tp4797112p4797413.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Renaissance Program

by horrido

Erm, I mean, SRP does not succeed without *you*. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Renaissance-Program-tp4797112p4797411.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Renaissance Program

by horrido

The emphasis on web development is a "hook" to draw in the public. The fact is, whether you choose to believe it or not, the web is the single most important technological achievement of the past two decades. It's on everybody's mind. They identify with it. The website does not suggest that Smalltalk is only good for web development. Of course, you can use it for anything else. I confess I'm coloured by my experience. I worked with Seaside and I'm now working with Amber. I love web technologies. (At Medium.com, you can see this in my articles on web2py, Go frameworks, JavaScript and Dart.) If you're really interested in boosting other problem domains at Smalltalk Renaissance, you are certainly most welcome to do so by submitting essays. Or posting to Facebook. Remember, SRP does not succeed with *you*. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Renaissance-Program-tp4797112p4797410.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Renaissance Program

by stepharo

Le 30/12/14 15:37, horrido a Ã©crit : > Many of the top languages got there by fortuitous happenstance. JavaScript > was esp. lucky in being embedded in every browser on the planet. Java had > corporate sponsorship. C++ had a lot of history. > > Yes, grassroots helped the likes of Python and Ruby, but I contend those > days are over. Mozilla, for example, needs grassroots to help Rust, but I > don't see Rust succeeding. Today, it's not enough to have good > libraries/tools, documentation, and word of mouth. > > Pharo is not alone. I see LOTS of other languages trying to do the same > thing. Most of them will remain in relative obscurity. I bet my life on it. > > You need more contributors? How are you going to get them? It comes down to > the same thing. Marketing and mindshare. > > PR is bullshit. But it's also a door that opens for Pharo to get its message > out. Where would iPhone be without PR bullshit? > > Smalltalk needs an edge. I'm trying to give you that edge. Do you want it? build trust by doing. > > Frankly, I'm happy to move on to other things in my life. > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Renaissance-Program-tp4797112p4797403.h… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Dec. 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] A hidden treasure :)

by stepharo

Thanks I fixed it! Stef Le 30/12/14 15:15, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > your first page looks like Pillar did not parse the coder correctly > and instead it displays > > [[[NBExternalResourceManager addResource: anObject.]]] > > Thats a hell of a class comment :D Thanks I gor and Stef :) > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 4:04 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > > Thanks igor for his great class comments and help! > > Stef > >

Dec. 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Renaissance Program

by horrido

And, yes, I did not do my most thorough homework regarding Pharo, as several of you have pointed out. Frankly, I don't have /that/ much time and energy. I'm old and retired. I'm just doing this for pleasure. So I rely on /you/ to set me straight. I remind you that I'm just the coordinator of the campaign, because I'm sure none of you have that much time to do what I'm doing. Marcus suggested that anyone can create a Google+ page, but he misses the point. The Google+ page is just one brick in the foundation of the campaign. It's part of a whole. Norbert suggests that I think I know what to do. No, I have ideas and I have a plan. There's no guarantee that it will work. Either you buy into my plan, or you don't. Either I have your support, or I don't. If the latter, I shan't waste any more time (yours or mind). -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Renaissance-Program-tp4797112p4797406.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] A toast

by Hilaire

No thanks to you & al. to build this wonderful avenue. Le 30/12/2014 14:33, stepharo a Ã©crit : > Thanks hilaire. I have DrGeo success story on the pipeline :) > > Le 30/12/14 12:41, Hilaire a Ã©crit : >> Thanks to all of you for this wonderful perspectives. >> >> Hilaire >> >> Le 29/12/2014 13:59, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >>> Hello Pharoers, >>> >>> (sorry for the long post) >>> >>> I'm on holidays so I've been silent this latests days, but I didn't >>> want to let the opportunity goes to propose a toast :) >> > > > -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

Dec. 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Renaissance Program

by horrido

Many of the top languages got there by fortuitous happenstance. JavaScript was esp. lucky in being embedded in every browser on the planet. Java had corporate sponsorship. C++ had a lot of history. Yes, grassroots helped the likes of Python and Ruby, but I contend those days are over. Mozilla, for example, needs grassroots to help Rust, but I don't see Rust succeeding. Today, it's not enough to have good libraries/tools, documentation, and word of mouth. Pharo is not alone. I see LOTS of other languages trying to do the same thing. Most of them will remain in relative obscurity. I bet my life on it. You need more contributors? How are you going to get them? It comes down to the same thing. Marketing and mindshare. PR is bullshit. But it's also a door that opens for Pharo to get its message out. Where would iPhone be without PR bullshit? Smalltalk needs an edge. I'm trying to give you that edge. Do you want it? Frankly, I'm happy to move on to other things in my life. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Renaissance-Program-tp4797112p4797403.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Renaissance Program

by Andreas Wacknitz

Am 30.12.14 um 14:37 schrieb horrido: > Such hostility! I don't consider the reactions as being hostile. For me it's more like being impatient. And I can understand this because when somebody spent a lot of time and energy during the last years, it's not nice being told that was mostly wrong and somethine else is needed more. I visited your site. What alienated my immediately was the (in my eyes) bad restriction on "Web Development". I am not interested in web development. I don't intent to start a new Google, Facebook, Yahoo or a web shop and thus I don't care about web development. Regards Andreas > If I have no idea what I'm talking about, then you may enlighten me. But > there's no need to attack me. I'm only trying to help and contribute in my > own way. > > I am, in fact, doing a great deal. In terms of PR, I've created a Facebook > page, created a Google+ page, created a Twitter feed and I'm tweeting > constantly. I'm collecting and curating for the Resources page, and I shall > be doing the same for essays and articles shortly (can you be patient??). > I'm actively /trying to sign up supporters for the SRP/, and I am about > ready to contact a major CEO. Next month, I will be investigating the > Toronto District School Board to see how we may get Smalltalk into the > classroom (/I have a contact/). I have spent countless hours working on this > campaign, and I have a great deal more things to do in the New Year, as I've > clearly outlined in a previous post. > > I'm not sure what it is you think I should be *doing*. What "everyone else" > is doing *is on the technical front*, working on tools and code. As I've > already clearly elaborated, this is not enough. I'm trying a different > approach to promoting Smalltalk, one that is based on PR, marketing and > branding. Let me turn the question around: What are *you* doing on the PR > front? > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Renaissance-Program-tp4797112p4797382.h… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Dec. 30, 2014