December 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

OK, that's concrete, thank you. So, we need to extend/fix the fact that the Raw tab does not show variable parts - I totally agree BTW. But that is not a problem of GT itself, just of one of its presentations, should be fairly easy to fix. > On 23 Dec 2014, at 20:09, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2014-12-23 19:37 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > > On 23 Dec 2014, at 19:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > What does a basic inspector mean for you? It's not a rhetorical question. I am actually interested in what you miss. > > What took you so long, Doru ? Haha ;-) > > Seriously, I think that the 'Raw' tab of GT-Inspector actually covers the key old inspector *and* inspector behaviour quite well. I guess that was/is also the design goal. > > No it covers only part of it. See below. > > The rest is mostly a reaction to something new and unfamiliar. GT takes some getting used to. > > But we need concrete use cases that give people trouble to be able to improve. > > My use case is simple, I have variable objects such as Context or BlockClosure, and when I inspect them I cannot see their variable fields with GTInspector. The old basicInspector allows me to see these fields. > > Example: > > | t | > t := 1. > [ t ] inspect > > GT visualisation: > > <GT.png> > > Old visualisation: > > <old.png> > > In the old visualisation I could see the 1 with its value. > > Same problem with contexts. In the old basicInspector I could see all the stack fields, I can't see them anymore. > > Example: > > <GT2.png> > > <old2.png> > > Therefore I need the old inspector to inspect Context and BlockClosure. I talk about Context and BlockClosure because they are the most annoying in my workflows, but the problem is more generic. GTInspector does not automatically detect the object's layout, on the contrary to the old inspector. Therefore when I do: > > Object variableSubclass: #MyVariableObject > instanceVariableNames: '' > classVariableNames: '' > category: 'Banana' > > (MyVariableObject new: 3) inspect > > => I can't see any of the fields. > > Same issue with variableByteSubclass and co. And Context and BlockClosure falls into this category of objects (they're variableSubclasses). > > To me a basicInspector is an inspector that allows you to see the ALL the internal state of an object without hiding or changing the names of fields, and I do not have that (right now) with GTInspector on the contrary to the old inspectors. > > Note: don't mistake me, I use GTInspector for most of my daily work, I like it and it improved my productivity. There are just a few cases that do not work where I need to switch to the old inspector, mostly the ones I've just described. > > In addition, a visualization of tempName -> tempValue for inspectors on context is missing but that's a detail. > > > Doru > > > > On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Yes. > > > > World Menu >> Settings >> Glamourous toolkit > > > > then you can uncheck GTInspector and GTPlayground. > > > > I also need to do that very often as GTInspector does not have a basic inspector. > > > > 2014-12-23 11:50 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > > Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut? > > > > I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to me. > > To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is probably not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this environment might be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use the old tools. > > > > Norbert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > >

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by ClÃ©ment Bera

2014-12-23 19:37 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > > On 23 Dec 2014, at 19:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > What does a basic inspector mean for you? It's not a rhetorical > question. I am actually interested in what you miss. > > What took you so long, Doru ? Haha ;-) > > Seriously, I think that the 'Raw' tab of GT-Inspector actually covers the > key old inspector *and* inspector behaviour quite well. I guess that was/is > also the design goal. > No it covers only part of it. See below. > > The rest is mostly a reaction to something new and unfamiliar. GT takes > some getting used to. > > But we need concrete use cases that give people trouble to be able to > improve. > My use case is simple, I have variable objects such as Context or BlockClosure, and when I inspect them I cannot see their variable fields with GTInspector. The old basicInspector allows me to see these fields. Example: | t | t := 1. [ t ] inspect GT visualisation: [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 1] Old visualisation: [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 2] In the old visualisation I could see the 1 with its value. Same problem with contexts. In the old basicInspector I could see all the stack fields, I can't see them anymore. Example: [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 3] [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 4] Therefore I need the old inspector to inspect Context and BlockClosure. I talk about Context and BlockClosure because they are the most annoying in my workflows, but the problem is more generic. GTInspector does not automatically detect the object's layout, on the contrary to the old inspector. Therefore when I do: Object variableSubclass: #MyVariableObject instanceVariableNames: '' classVariableNames: '' category: 'Banana' (MyVariableObject new: 3) inspect => I can't see any of the fields. Same issue with variableByteSubclass and co. And Context and BlockClosure falls into this category of objects (they're variableSubclasses). To me a basicInspector is an inspector that allows you to see the ALL the internal state of an object without hiding or changing the names of fields, and I do not have that (right now) with GTInspector on the contrary to the old inspectors. Note: don't mistake me, I use GTInspector for most of my daily work, I like it and it improved my productivity. There are just a few cases that do not work where I need to switch to the old inspector, mostly the ones I've just described. In addition, a visualization of tempName -> tempValue for inspectors on context is missing but that's a detail. > Doru > > > > On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Yes. > > > > World Menu >> Settings >> Glamourous toolkit > > > > then you can uncheck GTInspector and GTPlayground. > > > > I also need to do that very often as GTInspector does not have a basic > inspector. > > > > 2014-12-23 11:50 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > > Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut? > > > > I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in > Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I > tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is > really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to > get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. > There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to > me. > > To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is > probably not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this > environment might be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use > the old tools. > > > > Norbert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > >

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 23 Dec 2014, at 19:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > What does a basic inspector mean for you? It's not a rhetorical question. I am actually interested in what you miss. What took you so long, Doru ? Haha ;-) Seriously, I think that the 'Raw' tab of GT-Inspector actually covers the key old inspector *and* inspector behaviour quite well. I guess that was/is also the design goal. The rest is mostly a reaction to something new and unfamiliar. GT takes some getting used to. But we need concrete use cases that give people trouble to be able to improve. > Doru > > On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Yes. > > World Menu >> Settings >> Glamourous toolkit > > then you can uncheck GTInspector and GTPlayground. > > I also need to do that very often as GTInspector does not have a basic inspector. > > 2014-12-23 11:50 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut? > > I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to me. > To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is probably not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this environment might be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use the old tools. > > Norbert > > > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by Tudor Girba

Hi, What does a basic inspector mean for you? It's not a rhetorical question. I am actually interested in what you miss. Doru On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Yes. > > World Menu >> Settings >> Glamourous toolkit > > then you can uncheck GTInspector and GTPlayground. > > I also need to do that very often as GTInspector does not have a basic > inspector. > > 2014-12-23 11:50 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > >> Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut? >> >> I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in >> Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I >> tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is >> really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to >> get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. >> There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to >> me. >> To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is >> probably not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this >> environment might be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use >> the old tools. >> >> Norbert >> >> >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by ClÃ©ment Bera

Yes. World Menu >> Settings >> Glamourous toolkit then you can uncheck GTInspector and GTPlayground. I also need to do that very often as GTInspector does not have a basic inspector. 2014-12-23 11:50 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut? > > I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in > Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I > tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is > really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to > get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. > There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to > me. > To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is > probably not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this > environment might be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use > the old tools. > > Norbert > > > >

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [OT] Bee Smalltalk

by Emilio Oca

or here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCGAAdUizzH0-aox_bwLBztVCUhRhR7yd there is a presentation about bee kernel Best Emilio -----Mensaje original----- De: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] En nombre de Max Leske Enviado el: Lunes, 22 de Diciembre de 2014 11:53 Para: Pharo Development List Asunto: Re: [Pharo-dev] [OT] Bee Smalltalk Maybe there is something in the presentation they gave at ESUG this year (check the ESUG youtube channel)? > On 22 Dec 2014, at 15:32, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > Anyone know what happened to Bee Smalltalk? > > The release announced at http://beesmalltalk.blogspot.de is not > available on GitHub anymore. > > https://github.com/melkyades/bee is pointing to nowhere... > > >

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Christmas gift: Memory Monitor

by Alexandre Bergel

Thanks Sean! I have updated the configuration and copied your version in the MemoryMonitor repo. Cheers, Alexandre > On Dec 23, 2014, at 2:57 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > abergel wrote >> In Pharo 4.0, buttons are missing. Any idea whatâs wrong? > > The layout was weird. Fixed version at > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/SeanDeNigris/SeansOutbox/main/ works on 3.0 & 4.0 > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Christmas-gift-Memory-Monitor-tp4796722p4796731.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 23, 2014

Old inspector and explorer

by Norbert Hartl

Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut? I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to me. To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is probably not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this environment might be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use the old tools. Norbert

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Do not forget to register to Pharo days...

by Tudor Girba

Indeed. Please do not postpone the registration. And feel free to make noise :). Cheers, Doru On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 10:59 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > http://pharodays2015.pharo.org > > Stef > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] How can I specify the bindings when evaluating an expression?

by stepharo

Marcus could you add this issue somewhere because this is something that I'm expected from a compiler Stef Le 6/12/14 11:18, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : >> On 05 Dec 2014, at 15:18, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> I would like to be able to express >> >> Compiler new >> bindings: { a -> 3. b -> 4}; >> evaluate: 'a + b'; >> result >> and get 7 >> >> How can I do that? >> > Not directly, as evaluate is just a doitâ¦ but it can be added > as the machinery is there for evaluating in context in the debugger. > > I will have a look but not this weekend. > > Marcus > > >

Dec. 23, 2014