October 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT first impressions

by Tudor Girba

Hi, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 11:02 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Doru > > 2014-10-04 17:43 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > >> Hi HernÃ¡n, >> >> Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? >> :) >> >> > One day I will write about what I like, I promise! > Good :) > [...] >> >>> - When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands. >>> >> >> This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard >> time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will >> add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work. >> > > In my case, because sometimes I do remote desktop over remote desktop over > Windows and Linux, and protocols use to lost dead keys like Ctrl, Shift, > etc. > Ok. That makes sense. Andrei added these actions in the latest development version. Loading again like you said below should provide you those actions. [...] > >>> - "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but >>> suddenly dissapears. >>> >> >> What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like >> here: >> >> > > I just typed > > DateAndTime now asTime. > > and "Print it" displays current date and time but get quickly refreshed. > This happens only the first time, print it again didn't show any results at > all. Let me know if you cannot reproduce, below is how I installed GT. > I cannot reproduce it. Print it should popup the result and the popup should remain until you either press Esc or you change focus to something else. It should look like this: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/rethinking-print-it-in-pharo/ > > >> - Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. >>> >> -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. >>> -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do >>> (until you get used to) >>> -- They are like "too distant" from the code view. >>> >> >> The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the >> Moose image. Is that so? >> > > I am trying in a fresh Pharo 3.0 image on Windows 8.1, and followed > instructions in http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/installing-gtoolkit > .BTW when the installation finish the image seems to automatically closes, > but this is reported in other recent post. > Indeed, the script should have mention "activateWithoutSaving" instead of "activate". Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] gt issues

by phil＠highoctane.be

I'd say that it is not intuitive at first but the abilities of the GT inspector are really making up for any inconvenience. As for the GT debugger, I've been running in a couple of problems, namely that stepping when restarting hasn't been working properly after a couple times. Also, I miss the "run to here" option that was in the debuggers before. It looks like gone. Why? It is a common option in all languages. Phil On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:56 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks for the feedback. > > Of course, they are not used anywhere else at this point just because the > inspector is the first tool that was integrated into Pharo :). > > You say they are meaningless, but in fact you seem to have no problem with > what they are and how they work. And you found it out by yourself. I agree > that it is a different interface than anything else out there, but that is > not a negative thing. Actually, we also tried other variations, but this > was the one we stuck with, and most people seem to not have a problem with > it. What do you mean by "video controller buttons"? > > And, you are right in that the contrast is not proper in the Pharo theme. > This will change. In the meantime, here is how they look like in the > WhitespaceTheme > [image: Inline image 1] > > Is this better? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 1:15 PM, kmo <voxkmp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Well, one man's intuitive is another man's completely obscure. In the >> pharo >> context, the dots are a completely new navigation widget - used nowhere >> else >> - and their function is unclear. I think part of the problem is that the >> dots do not appear on any kind of obvious toolbar - they are more or less >> just dots on the bottom of the window. There is no visual cue that they >> have >> any function at all. They could be mere decoration. Just my two cents. >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/gt-issues-tp4782476p4782557.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >> Nabble.com. >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] gt issues

by Tudor Girba

I really do not know that one :(. I hate the dirty thing altogether, but we did not manage to take it out properly. If anyone could help, it would be great. Doru On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 11:04 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 04 Oct 2014, at 22:56, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > <bullets.png> > > BTW, Doru, why are the areas with 'self' dirty (orange corner) ? I would > assume that as long as you did not type in them they are not dirty. > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] gt issues

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 04 Oct 2014, at 22:56, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > <bullets.png> BTW, Doru, why are the areas with 'self' dirty (orange corner) ? I would assume that as long as you did not type in them they are not dirty.

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT first impressions

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hi Doru 2014-10-04 17:43 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Hi HernÃ¡n, > > Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? > :) > > One day I will write about what I like, I promise! > The rest of the reply is inline. > > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < > hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about >> GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, >> don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback: >> >> - First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it >> opens a Playground window. >> > > That is because it is still a work in progress. > > >> - When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands. >> > > This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard > time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will > add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work. > In my case, because sometimes I do remote desktop over remote desktop over Windows and Linux, and protocols use to lost dead keys like Ctrl, Shift, etc. > > >> - Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift >> the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to >> scroll back everytime to get a view on my code. >> > > The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when > you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the > playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code > in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any > case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you > to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right. > > Ok, good to know > - I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs. >> > > This is a feature that is already planned. > > Cool :) > - "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but >> suddenly dissapears. >> > > What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like > here: > > I just typed DateAndTime now asTime. and "Print it" displays current date and time but get quickly refreshed. This happens only the first time, print it again didn't show any results at all. Let me know if you cannot reproduce, below is how I installed GT. > - Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. >> > -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. >> -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do >> (until you get used to) >> -- They are like "too distant" from the code view. >> > > The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the > Moose image. Is that so? > I am trying in a fresh Pharo 3.0 image on Windows 8.1, and followed instructions in http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/installing-gtoolkit .BTW when the installation finish the image seems to automatically closes, but this is reported in other recent post. > In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in > GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with > the right balance in the debugger. > > Ok, thank you for the quick reply Doru. Cheers, HernÃ¡n Cheers, > Doru > > > >> Cheers, >> >> HernÃ¡n >> >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Setting the code highlighter for specific methods/classes

by Tudor Girba

I suggest to take a look at Rubric. You can find an example of a custom highlighter here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/writing-pillar-books-with-the-gtinspe… Cheers, Doru On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 1:02 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > I know that when alain rewrote the integration of hilightler in paragraph > he wrote some nice comments and examples. > > stef > > On 4/10/14 12:23, Stephan Eggermont wrote: > >> In Squeak there is a convenience method defined on Behavior to >> set the highlighter for the code. There was a bug report/discussion >> a few years ago with Lukas. It was noted that that change is mostly >> needed at the same time as changing the compiler/parser and >> the save behavior. At the time Lukas suggested to have an object >> representing this whole compilation context. With Helvetica this >> would be needed at a text range granularity, I assume. >> >> What is the current state of this in Pharo, and how do I make >> Nautilus (and other browsers) use a different highlighter? >> >> Stephan >> >> >> >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] gt issues

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Thanks for the feedback. Of course, they are not used anywhere else at this point just because the inspector is the first tool that was integrated into Pharo :). You say they are meaningless, but in fact you seem to have no problem with what they are and how they work. And you found it out by yourself. I agree that it is a different interface than anything else out there, but that is not a negative thing. Actually, we also tried other variations, but this was the one we stuck with, and most people seem to not have a problem with it. What do you mean by "video controller buttons"? And, you are right in that the contrast is not proper in the Pharo theme. This will change. In the meantime, here is how they look like in the WhitespaceTheme [image: Inline image 1] Is this better? Cheers, Doru On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 1:15 PM, kmo <voxkmp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Well, one man's intuitive is another man's completely obscure. In the pharo > context, the dots are a completely new navigation widget - used nowhere > else > - and their function is unclear. I think part of the problem is that the > dots do not appear on any kind of obvious toolbar - they are more or less > just dots on the bottom of the window. There is no visual cue that they > have > any function at all. They could be mere decoration. Just my two cents. > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/gt-issues-tp4782476p4782557.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

by Tudor Girba

Hi Thierry, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Le 04/10/2014 11:54, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > >> And now you are starting to have the issue of handling slices on GT >> from Pharo: do people have to register on Moose, resynchronize on GT >> on Moose, push their slices there, wait for Moose to push a slice to >> integrate on Pharo, wait for Pharo to integrate that slice? >> >> >> Something like that. Only there is no wait time to integrate in Moose as >> GT is a standalone project, and Moose simply integrates the latest >> development version of all its dependencies. So, there is not that much >> difference to integrating in Pharo. Once a new stable version of GT is >> available, it will automatically be available in Pharo. >> > > I don't think this is the way to go. It raises an additional barrier to > contributions to GT, such as: > > A - I tried GTPlayground on Pharo, I had a DNU, here is the issue I > created. > > A - I pushed a slice with the corrections > > B - In GT development version we decided to go another way. We don't need > your slice. Please wait for the next stable version and try again. Thank > you for your contribution. > > A --- > > I'm not sure you'll get another contribution from A after that exchange ;) I do not understand your scenario. How is it any different from the Pharo integration? If the integrator decides it's not a good fix, it does not get integrated. There will be barely any delay. > I found that stepping through the opening sequence of GT to debug >> MorphTreeMorph a pain and had to find another way to understand the >> issue. >> >> Can you be more specific? What did you try to achieve and did not manage? >> > > I was trying to find out why a MorphTreeMorph would DNU upon GTDebugger > opening ;) > > I gave up and went blindly into the MorphTreeMorph code instead, trying to > solve it by luck. Can you be more specific, please? What did you do to get a DNU? > > I do have specific tools I can use in such circumstances that you >> don't have. >> >> >> What kind of tools? I would be interested in learning about them and the >> analysis use cases they support. >> > > I have a trace tool for those situations (and also for parser work). > What trace tool? Is an example available? > My original use case was: > - Finding the bug in an error correction decoding algorithm which worked > without error, but with non-satisfying results: lower than expected SNR. > - Has then been used very successfully to explain the algorithm. > - Was then used as the basis for a hardware design methodology by dynamic > code traces of multithreaded programs > > Other use cases I use it for: > - Debugging code in Morphic (rectangles, MorphTreeMorph stuff, text editor > errors) where halt makes the image unusable. > - Debugging code in Parsers when the code of a reduction is not working > properly (somewhere deep in the AST). Is this more than a logger? Doru > > Thierry > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT first impressions

by Tudor Girba

Hi HernÃ¡n, Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :) The rest of the reply is inline. On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about > GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, > don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback: > > - First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it > opens a Playground window. > That is because it is still a work in progress. > - When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands. > This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work. > - Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift > the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to > scroll back everytime to get a view on my code. > The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right. > - I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs. > This is a feature that is already planned. > - "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but > suddenly dissapears. > What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here: > - Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. > -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. > -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do > (until you get used to) > -- They are like "too distant" from the code view. > The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger. Cheers, Doru > Cheers, > > HernÃ¡n > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 4, 2014

Athens and TxText Re: About ways to participate in community and general negativity

by Nicolai Hess

2014-10-04 12:11 GMT+02:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > What are the plans to integrate TxText? >> > > - Igor is taking clients one by one and improving txText. We got a new > syntax hilighter. > - Then I want to replace the workspace by a TxWorkspace. > - After for athens we should rewrite all the drawOn: methods. > - We were waiting to get integration based on configurations to > include it and now this is ready. > so soon we will have > - TxText inside Pharo > - > I made a fogbugz issue about changes to be done for athens based morphic drawing 13790 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?13790> Port what is needed for Athens (drawing morphs) One is about TextMorphs, I wrote about what I had to change to make the basic drawing working. Maybe some of it is useless with TxText but maybe it helps. 13449 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?13449> AthensWrapMorph can not draw TextMorphs If we don't port/rewrite all text based morphs, we will have an issue with this: 13448 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?13448> No Font emphasis (bold/oblique...) on text drawn with Athens AFAIK for the font handling in text morphs, they use the "normal" font and holds the emphasis property on their own. But Athens (FreeType renderer) relies on the font allone, that means if you want a bold font you don't take the normal font *name* + bold emphasis, but you'll have to take the "bold font" FreeType font entry, or something like that. About changing all the drawOn: methods for athens, there is an alternative I proposed in 13866 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?13866> AthensFormCanvasWrapper Font rendering bug: The font-bug for FreeType fonts (wrong sized characters) in Athens is not solved. (see screenshot) The current solution is: "Don't use the same font (+font size) for Athens and Morphic". ( http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-dev_lists.pharo.org/2014-June/097128… ) But of course, how can we enforce this? > >> >> Now I know that GTools have been used in Moose for a long time, but its >> integration to Pharo REPLACING Workspace has been a cultural shock to those >> that haven't used it before (myself included, though I'm lookign forward to >> adapting). I think there'll be similar culture shock when Pharo 4 is >> released, from those that don't follow the bleeding edge. I'd strongly >> suggest that GTools operate for ONE release alongside existing tools, as an >> additional item in the first level World menu next to 'Workspace'. >> > I said the same to doru :). > > > Indeed, even if Playground is quite stable through long use in Moose, it >> is new to Pharo, and marking its menu entry as 'Experimental' for now might >> provide some benefits. >> >> * This may provide a to stress test new evolving frameworks like TxText & >> Rubric - without affecting existing tools. >> >> * Now Playground has a wider community exposure, feedback from new users >> is likely to be less pressure and less negative if they still have access >> to old tools. >> >> * Feedback may result in changes. >> >> * Reduced culture shock. Builds confidence in a stable system not going >> "too fast" but just "fast enough" (very subjective I know). >> >> > >

Oct. 4, 2014