October 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk running on Dart VM?

by kilon alios

> > > Yes, people love new toys. Especially when they come from a company with > colors ;) > > "is climbing in popularity." is true for others as well - next question on > this list will be > if we should port and run on Swift from Apple, ... > I have that itch to disagree with you and point you to the flaws of your argument but unfortunately you are very much correct. My experience with programming languages is that people don't give up their comfort zone so easily. I have seen this happening with Jython , its basically python run on JVM , can directly use Java libraries out of the box and it can even use cpython libraries. Yet it seems its used more by people that work anyway on the JVM than cpython people. Actually I dont think it would be an exaggeration to say that jython is even more unpopular than pharo right now. Dart is even in worst position because its a new language and I dont think Google will replace Java on Android or Javascript on the browser with Dart any time soon. On the other hand I disagree that Swift is in a similar case because Apple has way more control over its market because it makes both the software and the hardware and , and this is a big factor, Swift IS a replacement to Objective C. Also Swift had a very positive reception from developers which another factor into this equation. I dont see Dart generating as much noise. Also Apple is 100% behind Swift, the moment Yosemite came out the first update to Swift (XCODE) was for iOS and now a new update came out for MacOSX as well. I dont think its a bad thing to port smalltalk to Dart , I do think it will be advantageous for both smalltalk and dart but dont expect that you will be getting thousands of users any time soon. I am in a similar boat of giving access to python libraries to pharo user with my latest project, again my expectations are very low on how many people will use this and I don't blame them. Sounds great in theory in practice you run into all sort of technical problems.

Oct. 22, 2014

[pharo-project/pharo-core] 66e5ed: 40319

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/4.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 66e5edb2b85fb05122b7162a3e4648447325ee0d https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/66e5edb2b85fb05122b7162a… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2014-10-22 (Wed, 22 Oct 2014) Changed paths: A KernelTests.package/BlockClosureTest.class/instance/tests - astmapping/testSourceNodeOptimized.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRSequence.class/instance/inspector/sourceNode.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/extension/BlockClosure/instance/sourceNode.st A OpalTools.package/extension/IRInstruction/instance/gtInspectorTreeIn_.st A OpalTools.package/extension/IRSequence/instance/gtInspectorTreeIn_.st A OpalTools.package/extension/SymbolicBytecode/instance/gtInspectorTreeIn_.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script319.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update40319.st M ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st Log Message: ----------- 40319 14284 fix #sourceNode for Blocks https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14284 14282 add SourceNode tab for IRInstruction and SymbolicBytecode https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14282 http://files.pharo.org/image/40/40319.zip

Oct. 22, 2014

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/40319 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0

by Torsten Bergmann

Hi Tudor, that should be easy now: look at CompiledMethod>>#isExampleMethod which can be adopted as needed. Checking for the <example> pragma could be done this way: self pragmas anySatisfy: [:pragma | pragma keyword = #example ] but we should think first if this is enough. I already proposed to not only annotate with a pragma <example> but additionally give a category. Like this: <example: 'Graphics'> <example: 'Network'> This way we can easily build an example browser for our users where people can go through their point of interest and browse the examples. Maybe we should also rethink pragmas (in Pharo 5.0?) in general to be more Smalltalk like: Â Â <Example category: 'Graphics'> where Example is a real class in the system (!). One can even make it more explicit then Â <ExampleCategory graphics> with ExampleCategory(class)>>graphics returning a translateable string. People can add own categories and one easily knows about already available ones. Now that classes can have properties in Pharo 4.0 already I would like to see a unification for methods and classes here (with the general concept of an "Annotation" in our metamodel). In my opinion a method pragma is just a special form of annotating a method. And annotating classes is usefull as well (for instance you want to annotate a class with the appropriate Table name in an ORM framework, ...) A comment (in a method or in a class) is also nothing more than a special annotation. A class/method category is also an annotation. If unified a method or a class could be in one or more categories. Even a break point for an expression is IMHO just an annotation. Bye T. Gesendet:Â Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014 um 10:43 Uhr Von:Â "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> An:Â "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> Cc:Â "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Betreff:Â Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0 Hi Torsten, Â Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go. Â Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention? Â Cheers, Doru Â Â Â On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote:One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples directly in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons. See https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-… for a picture. SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE CLASS SIDE Â Â Â Â Â Â AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example". This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. Additionally it would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good citized and provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study. Side note: ========== It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods so the class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking). https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13894/Class-side-initialize-methods-shoul… Both issues are already integrated. Â Â Â -- www.tudorgirba.com[http://www.tudorgirba.com] Â "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] BlockClosure source code

by Marcus Denker

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > On 08 Oct 2014, at 17:35, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Can you provide a simple test to execute? > > > [ :ctx | [ ctx atEnd ] whileTrue:[1+2 ] ] sourceNode > > > > > >> On 08.10.2014, at 16:46, Jan KurÅ¡ <kurs(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I need to extract a source code from a block closure and I found > something strange: > >> > >> [ :ctx | [ ctx atEnd ] ifTrue: [ ] ] . > >> [ :ctx | [ ctx atEnd ] whileTrue:[ ] ]. > >> > >> Print of the first line returns: > >> '[ :ctx | [ ctx atEnd ] ifTrue: [ ] ]' > >> > >> Print of the second line returns: > >> '[ ctx atEnd ]' > >> > >> And honestly, I have no idea why. This behaviour was observed in Pharo3 > and Pharo4. > >> > >> Is there a way how to get a consistent result, i.e. '[ :ctx | [ ctx > atEnd ] whileTrue:[ ] ]' for a second line? > >> > >> Thank you in advance! > Can you check https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14284/fix-sourceNode-for-Blocks This solves the issue for Blocks... for contexts there are still problems, but this is another step...

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk running on Dart VM?

by Torsten Bergmann

Aik-Siong Koh wrote: >Dart is climbing in popularity. Yes, people love new toys. Especially when they come from a company with colors ;) "is climbing in popularity." is true for others as well - next question on this list will be if we should port and run on Swift from Apple, ... >And Dart VM is going to be built into Chrome Allows to run faster on Chrome. For the others browsers you have to use the slower "Dart on JavaScript" fallback. Maybe the ECMA standardization may change that in the future. Who knows. ClÃ©ment Bera wrote: >I think there are guys working on the Dart VM that worked on a smalltalk VM before (I'm thinking of Gilad Bracha and Lars Bak). Yes Lars worked on Strongtalk/Animorphic (a very fast Smalltalk insprired by Self, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strongtalk) Then working for Sun Microsystems he speeded up Java with HotSpot VM by applying optimizations/JIT that were already standard in Smalltalk VM's. He now works for Google on V8 and DartVM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Bak_(computer_programmer) There is an interesting talk from him on the relation Smalltalk and Dart, see my blog post here: http://astares.blogspot.ca/2012/10/lars-bak-on-language-virtual-machines.ht… also check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huawCRlo9H4 BTW: He is not the only Smalltalker working these days at Google with Dart. Eric Clayberg (former Instantiations/VisualAge Smalltalk - then Eclipse Window UI Builder) now manages the Dart Editor project at Google (also based on Eclipse). Read his Dart for Smalltalkers: https://www.dartlang.org/slides/2012/03/smalltalk-industry-conference/DARTt… Alan Knight known from Cincom and Smalltalks Glorp ORM is working in the dart team as well. Lukas Renggli (contributor of Seaside, PetitParser) is also working for Google and ported some tools to Dart. Still what Dart ended up is/was a little bit disappointing for Smalltalkers, see http://blog.epigent.com/2011/10/googles-dart-language-and-smalltalk.html Nonetheless Dart has its place and maybe someone will port a Smalltalk(VM) to it (if there is a need or a market). Maybe you should contact Lars directly to ask how hard it would be to run ST. Interesting enough Google talks more and more about the "Dart platform" instead of the "Dart language". Maybe they switch to a polyglot environment in the future (similar to JVM which is able to host several languages) and as Google engineers know about Smalltalk it might have good support to run also Smalltalk. Bye T.

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo4] inspector shows the ASTNode that generated a Bytecode

by Tudor Girba

You are really getting the hang of this, don't you? :) Doru On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Small extension: > > > This way one can quickly see which AST node the system thinks corresponds > to which byte code. > I added this for Bytecodes and the Opal IR. > > (this should show the whole AST and just highlight the partsâ¦ later) > > Marcus > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0

by Tudor Girba

Hi Torsten, Thanks for this. This is indeed the way to go. Just to let you know, the example infrastructure is also being developed in the context of GT, so we have a healthy interest overlap which is great. Only in our case, the discovery of the example happens through an <example> pragma. Would it be possible to change your slice to use this pragma instead of the example* convention? Cheers, Doru On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples > directly > in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons. > > See > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13892/Example-methods-should-be-runnable-… > for a picture. > > > SO PLEASE: WHEN YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES IN CLASSES PLEASE PUT THEM ON THE > CLASS SIDE > AND LET THE SELECTOR START WITH "example". > > This way people will easily see that it is an example and can run them. > Additionally it > would help to put them into a category like "examples". So be a good > citized and > provide not only class comments but also examples for others to study. > > > Side note: > ========== > It is also possible to click on the icon of class side initialize methods > so the > class get reinitialized (after a confirmation to avoid false clicking). > > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13894/Class-side-initialize-methods-shoul… > > Both issues are already integrated. > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 22, 2014

[Pharo4] inspector shows the ASTNode that generated a Bytecode

by Marcus Denker

Small extension: This way one can quickly see which AST node the system thinks corresponds to which byte code. I added this for Bytecodes and the Opal IR. (this should show the whole AST and just highlight the partsâ¦ later) Â Â Â Marcus

Oct. 22, 2014

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/40318 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Oct. 22, 2014