October 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Microframeworks was: Re: Thank you so much for Pharo 3.0

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Le 23/10/2014 08:23, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : > >> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Thierry Goubier >> <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Le 23/10/2014 08:09, phil(a)highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> >> a Ã©crit : >> >> How hard would it be to parse such a file with this kind of >> content? >> >> https://github.com/mitsuhiko/__flask/blob/master/examples/__ >> minitwit/minitwit.py >> <https://github.com/mitsuhiko/flask/blob/master/examples/ >> minitwit/minitwit.py> >> >> >> Not hard. A bit of work on PythonParser2. >> >> >> Well, I meant "a file like this in Smalltalk" :-) Still, a cool idea of >> yours! >> > > That in Smalltalk may be better, especially to induce people to extend it > with Pharo afterwards :) > That's the idea indeed. > > But Pharo has issues with long methods (such as a single, long file). I > wrote some code to split methods for SmaCC at the AST level (parse, split, > create sub-methods, replace code with call to method, compile), but it > works in SmaCC generated code; I didn't really try to make it general. > How long is long? Now, the point is to see all that as a stream, cut methods at appropriate places and compile code under a WAComponent subclass. I don't know about SmaCC but I think I can do something with PetitParser and Smalltalk compile: Phil > > >> This would generate a WAComponent subclass with methods in it, >> register >> the thing and go for it. >> >> >> The level of Python in it look not too difficult to convert. But it >> relies on a framework for which I can't answer. What is jinja ? >> >> Jinja is the template engine: http://jinja.pocoo.org/ >> > > Ok, > > Thierry > >

Oct. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Mysteries of the compiler

by Marcus Denker

@marcus I propese an extra usage tag #writeInLoop, that is only set on assignments within a loop. And then, mark an "escaping" var in an optimized loop only as "escapingWrite", if it is marked as "writeInLoop". Yes! that should solve it.

Oct. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Microframeworks was: Re: Thank you so much for Pharo 3.0

by Thierry Goubier

Le 23/10/2014 08:23, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : > On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Thierry Goubier > <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Le 23/10/2014 08:09, phil(a)highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> > a Ã©crit : > > How hard would it be to parse such a file with this kind of content? > > https://github.com/mitsuhiko/__flask/blob/master/examples/__minitwit/minitw… > <https://github.com/mitsuhiko/flask/blob/master/examples/minitwit/minitwit.py> > > > Not hard. A bit of work on PythonParser2. > > > Well, I meant "a file like this in Smalltalk" :-) Still, a cool idea of > yours! That in Smalltalk may be better, especially to induce people to extend it with Pharo afterwards :) But Pharo has issues with long methods (such as a single, long file). I wrote some code to split methods for SmaCC at the AST level (parse, split, create sub-methods, replace code with call to method, compile), but it works in SmaCC generated code; I didn't really try to make it general. > > This would generate a WAComponent subclass with methods in it, > register > the thing and go for it. > > > The level of Python in it look not too difficult to convert. But it > relies on a framework for which I can't answer. What is jinja ? > > Jinja is the template engine: http://jinja.pocoo.org/ Ok, Thierry

Oct. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0

by Tudor Girba

Yes. That is certainly a wished feature. Doru On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > > On 23 Oct 2014, at 05:32, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> > wrote: > > > > Torsten Bergmann wrote > >> One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples > >> directly > >> in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons. > > > > This is cool!!! And... why stop there? I had implemented a while back > "Send > > It" and "Inspect It" in Nautilus' method pane context menu (only > appearing > > for unary class-side methods). I've found it very useful to be able to > fire > > these methods without dropping into an editor. If there is interest, I > will > > dig up the code. > > The GT-Inspector's Meta tab allows you to send unary message just by > clicking. I was thinking earlier that it should be possible to extend this > even for messages with arguments by just asking for them. > > > Also, what's really cool about this is that it's a reminder that - oh > yeah, > > a class is a living object like everything else. Of course the logical > > conclusion is a Self outliner or MathMorphs where you /only/ interact > with > > objects in a way that respects and highlights their aliveness, but we > gotta > > start somewhere ;) > > > > > > > > ----- > > Cheers, > > Sean > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Clickable-class-side-example-and-initialize-methods-i… > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Microframeworks was: Re: Thank you so much for Pharo 3.0

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Le 23/10/2014 08:09, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : > > How hard would it be to parse such a file with this kind of content? >> >> https://github.com/mitsuhiko/flask/blob/master/examples/ >> minitwit/minitwit.py >> > > Not hard. A bit of work on PythonParser2. > Well, I meant "a file like this in Smalltalk" :-) Still, a cool idea of yours! > > This would generate a WAComponent subclass with methods in it, register >> the thing and go for it. >> > > The level of Python in it look not too difficult to convert. But it relies > on a framework for which I can't answer. What is jinja ? > > Jinja is the template engine: http://jinja.pocoo.org/ Phil > Thierry > >

Oct. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Microframeworks was: Re: Thank you so much for Pharo 3.0

by Thierry Goubier

Le 23/10/2014 08:09, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : > How hard would it be to parse such a file with this kind of content? > > https://github.com/mitsuhiko/flask/blob/master/examples/minitwit/minitwit.py Not hard. A bit of work on PythonParser2. > This would generate a WAComponent subclass with methods in it, register > the thing and go for it. The level of Python in it look not too difficult to convert. But it relies on a framework for which I can't answer. What is jinja ? Thierry

Oct. 23, 2014

Microframeworks was: Re: Thank you so much for Pharo 3.0

by phil＠highoctane.be

Nice the hear indeed. I miss your posts! Pharo is indeed very stable. Doing everything on 3.0 here. Got a full week of clients demos done, never ever had to touch the server running the app. Even the guy doing the demos told me it never crashed on him (which wasn't that usual apparently). With the command line based tools that are now very doable, this makes for a serious contender. Now, for a bit of thread hijacking... We need to put more care in the datadabase sector, I've been bit by SQLite crashes with WeakRegistry sessions. Good thing is that I was to fix that on my own, which would be close to impossible with other toolchains. That's a key thing about Pharo: being able to debug quite deep and still grasp what's going on. Postgres works too. But APIs are really far apart and some alignment is required... That's a limiting factor for adoption, as DBs are really used in a lot of places. For getting traction, we also need some more quick tools. I like Teapot for example. It looks like close to Flask http://flask.pocoo.org/ Look at how easy it is to bang an app together: https://github.com/mitsuhiko/flask/tree/master/examples/minitwit https://github.com/mitsuhiko/flask/blob/master/examples/minitwit/minitwit.py We should have something like that. In the last hackathon, we go the top apps using this kind of tech. http://www.rtbf.be/info/medias/detail_trois-applications-primees-au-premier… (french ahead)... I was in a team where we enhanced an existing thing (http://noselus.be for the interested). and was bit by SQLite trouble. No issue as I wanted to use Pharo in a new case, namely https://github.com/noselusbe/noselus-etl I believe we could have a Pharo microframework thing where people would not use the browser to code but a single script. Ha! Heretic! A file! Burn him! hum, yeah, but that's what people use and I also have a startup script for my apps. We could use that to "bootstrap people" into Pharo. Instead of a crappy debugger, they can then just pharo-ui Pharo.image and bam, a full IDE with all bells and whistles. How hard would it be to parse such a file with this kind of content? https://github.com/mitsuhiko/flask/blob/master/examples/minitwit/minitwit.py This would generate a WAComponent subclass with methods in it, register the thing and go for it. We can pack JSON support in there as the JsonObject support allows to really load and access Json easily. TIA for your feedback. Phil Phil On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Mariano, > > It is good to hear from you, and it is even better to hear such nice > words. Thanks you ! > > I think that in general, in our day to day struggles, people underestimate > just how good Pharo is and how useful it is to do real work in the real > world, in other words, to be successful. > > Do we already have your story as a 'success story' for the website ? > > Sven > > > On 23 Oct 2014, at 03:15, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Hi guys, > > > > I just wanted to share my happiness with you. I joined a team 2 years > ago almost to develop a Seaside 3.0 app, using and old Magritte version, > and Pharo 1.4. As soon as I started, I created a ConfigurationOfMyApp, and > migrated to Pharo 2.0. > > > > That worked fine for almost 2 years. Since several weeks/months, I > wanted to update to new Seaside versions and Pharo. Of course, you never > have time, there are always other problems to fix first, etc...But 10 days > ago, I stopped everything, and I migrated to Seaside 3.1.3, latest > Magritte, latest Bootstrap (very very cool project too...we are using it > everywhere), latest everything...and... of course...Pharo 3.0!!! > Also..the "port" was almost nothing...everything almost worked out of the > box. Thanks to contributors maintaining great softwares like Metacello and > all existing configurations. > > > > Btw...I am also deploying my app in GemStone since almost an year, and > this also is being good. Gemstone people also have a great support via > mailing list which I very much appreciate. > > > > I played with Pharo 3.0 when it was released and some time also before > that. But not that much. Now..I am using the very same image since at least > 10 days. Working full time. All my projects are working great. I cannot > believe so good it feels developing in Pharo 3.0. I am using the great Dark > Theme from Esteban. Everything is super fast, super nice, super stable. And > with my 2.0 images..they always grew too much (up to 500MB), that > everything started to be very very slow. I needed to start again with a > fresh image, etc. This 3.0 image has almost the same size as I started and > continues to be super fast. > > > > So...I cannot repeat myself how good Pharo 3.0 feels. I should have > migrated long ago. Thanks all the contributors and developers for such a > great and professional product. > > > > Best, > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > >

Oct. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Thank you so much for Pharo 3.0

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2014-10-23 2:40 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > I think that in general, in our day to day struggles, > people underestimate just how good Pharo is and how useful > it is to do real work in the real world, in other words, to be successful. This is so true. And it's getting better on every release. Esteban A. Maringolo

Oct. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Clickable class side example and initialize methods in Pharo 4.0

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 23 Oct 2014, at 05:32, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > Torsten Bergmann wrote >> One addition I implemented for Nautilus is that one can run examples >> directly >> in the browser just by clicking on class side example methods icons. > > This is cool!!! And... why stop there? I had implemented a while back "Send > It" and "Inspect It" in Nautilus' method pane context menu (only appearing > for unary class-side methods). I've found it very useful to be able to fire > these methods without dropping into an editor. If there is interest, I will > dig up the code. The GT-Inspector's Meta tab allows you to send unary message just by clicking. I was thinking earlier that it should be possible to extend this even for messages with arguments by just asking for them. > Also, what's really cool about this is that it's a reminder that - oh yeah, > a class is a living object like everything else. Of course the logical > conclusion is a Self outliner or MathMorphs where you /only/ interact with > objects in a way that respects and highlights their aliveness, but we gotta > start somewhere ;) > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Clickable-class-side-example-and-initialize-methods-i… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Oct. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Thank you so much for Pharo 3.0

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Mariano, It is good to hear from you, and it is even better to hear such nice words. Thanks you ! I think that in general, in our day to day struggles, people underestimate just how good Pharo is and how useful it is to do real work in the real world, in other words, to be successful. Do we already have your story as a 'success story' for the website ? Sven > On 23 Oct 2014, at 03:15, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi guys, > > I just wanted to share my happiness with you. I joined a team 2 years ago almost to develop a Seaside 3.0 app, using and old Magritte version, and Pharo 1.4. As soon as I started, I created a ConfigurationOfMyApp, and migrated to Pharo 2.0. > > That worked fine for almost 2 years. Since several weeks/months, I wanted to update to new Seaside versions and Pharo. Of course, you never have time, there are always other problems to fix first, etc...But 10 days ago, I stopped everything, and I migrated to Seaside 3.1.3, latest Magritte, latest Bootstrap (very very cool project too...we are using it everywhere), latest everything...and... of course...Pharo 3.0!!! Also..the "port" was almost nothing...everything almost worked out of the box. Thanks to contributors maintaining great softwares like Metacello and all existing configurations. > > Btw...I am also deploying my app in GemStone since almost an year, and this also is being good. Gemstone people also have a great support via mailing list which I very much appreciate. > > I played with Pharo 3.0 when it was released and some time also before that. But not that much. Now..I am using the very same image since at least 10 days. Working full time. All my projects are working great. I cannot believe so good it feels developing in Pharo 3.0. I am using the great Dark Theme from Esteban. Everything is super fast, super nice, super stable. And with my 2.0 images..they always grew too much (up to 500MB), that everything started to be very very slow. I needed to start again with a fresh image, etc. This 3.0 image has almost the same size as I started and continues to be super fast. > > So...I cannot repeat myself how good Pharo 3.0 feels. I should have migrated long ago. Thanks all the contributors and developers for such a great and professional product. > > Best, > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Oct. 23, 2014