October 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Well, the same argument was used for inspectors before the GTInspector. And now, the amount of inspector windows reduces significantly and you actually gain value in the process (because you keep track of the session). Having windows popping up everywhere is a technical solution, but it does not mean we cannot find a better cognitive solution. I think that the overhead imposed by those windows is quite high and reducing the amount is a worthy goal. Cheers, Doru On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 10:30 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > Window plague maybe, but Ctrl-w is closing them quite fast too. > > As well as the Windows > Delete Unchanged windows menu entry. > > Tiling Windows Manager kind of helps too. > > It is important to have all of those windows when drilling down into a > complicated feature with senders and implementors. That is a > differentiating factor vs other IDEs. (Ok, Vim can :sp and :vsp a lot but > this is not the same feeling). > > Phil > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > >> >> On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:08, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> >> wrote: >> >> > >> > Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> > >> >> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >> >> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and >> other thing in other parts of the system". >> > >> > Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. >> > I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. >> > >> >> another argument: everyone agrees that we open too many windows (*far* >> too many windows) and that we >> need to change the IDE to do that less. >> >> Now if we declare âevery keystroke that used to open a window needs to >> open a window forever and in all >> contextsâ, then it will be hard to solve the window-plagueâ¦ >> >> Marcus >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Indeed, they are not ready for the dark theme. As for Pharo-ready, I would rather take the opportunity to create a set of icons that are Pharo specific. I can try to play with that. @Esteban: could you point me to where I should look for the currently used icons? Cheers, Doru On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > No, they are not "Pharo ready" in general. I'm working in a change > proposal... > > > > On 3 Oct 2014, at 09:30, "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > > Question about those icons, are they DarkTheme ready? I have had to invert > them all by hand to have something looking nice (and do all kinds of > changes to be able to read the contents). > > Also, as GT is using Rubric, the default black/dark text has to be turned > into white as well as the cursor color in order to see something. > > Phil > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> On a separate note, I played with another variation of a go icon that >> would be more specific to Pharo. Would you like this better? >> >> <go-icon.png> >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >>> I understand. But, even now, you associated Cmd+i as a window action. Is >>> it a stretch to see it as a logical action that materializes in different >>> ways? >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >>>> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and >>>> other thing in other parts of the system". >>>> For me, thatâs not coherent, and introduces a level of pain. >>>> We are still trying to fix the annoying introduced by nautilus because >>>> commands are different on it than the rest of the systemâ¦ I would like to >>>> avoid that. >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> On 03 Oct 2014, at 08:17, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> What if you see it like this: Cmd+i inspects. If you can inspect in >>>> place, you do it, otherwise, you inspect in a new window. I know it would >>>> require a bit of getting used to, but imagine what will happen when the >>>> class browser will allow you to inspect in place ... oops, perhaps I should >>>> have not say it loud :) >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> yes, because it will be "open panel" in playground and "popup an >>>>> inspector" everyplace else. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Why do you think that the "Cmd+i" option introduces incoherence? >>>>>> >>>>>> Doru >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Esteban Lorenzano < >>>>>> estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> you have to pay attention to other lists other than moose, Alex :) >>>>>>> nah, seriously: we have been discussing on a remap, because it is >>>>>>> conflicting with other keybindings we have in pharo (cmd+o+[others]). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For now, we have three proposals: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cmd+e âexecuteâ >>>>>>> cmd+g âgoâ >>>>>>> cmd+i, and remap gtinspector to cmd+I >>>>>>> >>>>>>> personally I prefer the second one. >>>>>>> the third one looks like a good idea, but it will introduce an >>>>>>> incoherence in the system (unless we remap everything, everywhere), so I >>>>>>> prefer to stick with âcmd+gâ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > On 02 Oct 2014, at 23:28, Alexandre Bergel < >>>>>>> alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > It does in the moose image. Pity, this is so useful... >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Cheers, >>>>>>> > Alexandre >>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>> > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>> > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground wrong cursor position

by Alain Plantec

> Thank you. > It looks like the cursor positioning and syntax highlighing happens in different processes, right? > yes, and the cursor bounds are not updated correctly after the highlighting process has finished. Iâve found the fix :) Thanks for reporting. Cheers Alain > > On 3 oct. 2014, at 07:25, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > > > I do not know :( > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:46 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > > Someone knows why this happens ? > > > Sometimes the cursor is at the wrong textposition. At least > > > it looks like that. Newly entered characters are on the right position. > > > (see screenshot ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground wrong cursor position

by Nicolai Hess

Am 03.10.2014 07:37 schrieb "Alain Plantec" <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com>: > > a Rubric issue I guess. > I will have a look. > Cheers > Alain > Thank you. It looks like the cursor positioning and syntax highlighing happens in different processes, right? > On 3 oct. 2014, at 07:25, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > I do not know :( > > > > Doru > > > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:46 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > Someone knows why this happens ? > > Sometimes the cursor is at the wrong textposition. At least > > it looks like that. Newly entered characters are on the right position. > > (see screenshot ) > > > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by phil＠highoctane.be

Window plague maybe, but Ctrl-w is closing them quite fast too. As well as the Windows > Delete Unchanged windows menu entry. Tiling Windows Manager kind of helps too. It is important to have all of those windows when drilling down into a complicated feature with senders and implementors. That is a differentiating factor vs other IDEs. (Ok, Vim can :sp and :vsp a lot but this is not the same feeling). Phil On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:08, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > > > > > Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > > > >> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. > >> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and > other thing in other parts of the system". > > > > Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. > > I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. > > > > another argument: everyone agrees that we open too many windows (*far* too > many windows) and that we > need to change the IDE to do that less. > > Now if we declare âevery keystroke that used to open a window needs to > open a window forever and in all > contextsâ, then it will be hard to solve the window-plagueâ¦ > > Marcus > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Marcus Denker

On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:08, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > >> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and other thing in other parts of the system". > > Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. > I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. > another argument: everyone agrees that we open too many windows (*far* too many windows) and that we need to change the IDE to do that less. Now if we declare âevery keystroke that used to open a window needs to open a window forever and in all contextsâ, then it will be hard to solve the window-plagueâ¦ Marcus

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Christophe Demarey

Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. > what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and other thing in other parts of the system". Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. My 2 cents, Christophe.

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Esteban Lorenzano

No, they are not "Pharo ready" in general. I'm working in a change proposal... > On 3 Oct 2014, at 09:30, "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > > Question about those icons, are they DarkTheme ready? I have had to invert them all by hand to have something looking nice (and do all kinds of changes to be able to read the contents). > > Also, as GT is using Rubric, the default black/dark text has to be turned into white as well as the cursor color in order to see something. > > Phil > >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> On a separate note, I played with another variation of a go icon that would be more specific to Pharo. Would you like this better? >> >> <go-icon.png> >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> I understand. But, even now, you associated Cmd+i as a window action. Is it a stretch to see it as a logical action that materializes in different ways? >>> >>> Doru >>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >>>> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and other thing in other parts of the system". >>>> For me, thatâs not coherent, and introduces a level of pain. >>>> We are still trying to fix the annoying introduced by nautilus because commands are different on it than the rest of the systemâ¦ I would like to avoid that. >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>>> On 03 Oct 2014, at 08:17, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> What if you see it like this: Cmd+i inspects. If you can inspect in place, you do it, otherwise, you inspect in a new window. I know it would require a bit of getting used to, but imagine what will happen when the class browser will allow you to inspect in place ... oops, perhaps I should have not say it loud :) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> yes, because it will be "open panel" in playground and "popup an inspector" everyplace else. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>>>>> Why do you think that the "Cmd+i" option introduces incoherence? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Doru >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> you have to pay attention to other lists other than moose, Alex :) >>>>>>>> nah, seriously: we have been discussing on a remap, because it is conflicting with other keybindings we have in pharo (cmd+o+[others]). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For now, we have three proposals: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cmd+e âexecuteâ >>>>>>>> cmd+g âgoâ >>>>>>>> cmd+i, and remap gtinspector to cmd+I >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> personally I prefer the second one. >>>>>>>> the third one looks like a good idea, but it will introduce an incoherence in the system (unless we remap everything, everywhere), so I prefer to stick with âcmd+gâ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > On 02 Oct 2014, at 23:28, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > It does in the moose image. Pity, this is so useful... >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Cheers, >>>>>>>> > Alexandre >>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>> > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>> > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>> > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Marcus Denker

On 03 Oct 2014, at 09:30, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Question about those icons, are they DarkTheme ready? I have had to invert them all by hand to have something looking nice (and do all kinds of changes to be able to read the contents). > > Also, as GT is using Rubric, the default black/dark text has to be turned into white as well as the cursor color in order to see something. > As far as I know: no, this is work on progress. Marcus

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by phil＠highoctane.be

Question about those icons, are they DarkTheme ready? I have had to invert them all by hand to have something looking nice (and do all kinds of changes to be able to read the contents). Also, as GT is using Rubric, the default black/dark text has to be turned into white as well as the cursor color in order to see something. Phil On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > On a separate note, I played with another variation of a go icon that > would be more specific to Pharo. Would you like this better? > > [image: Inline image 1] > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> I understand. But, even now, you associated Cmd+i as a window action. Is >> it a stretch to see it as a logical action that materializes in different >> ways? >> >> Doru >> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >>> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and >>> other thing in other parts of the system". >>> For me, thatâs not coherent, and introduces a level of pain. >>> We are still trying to fix the annoying introduced by nautilus because >>> commands are different on it than the rest of the systemâ¦ I would like to >>> avoid that. >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> On 03 Oct 2014, at 08:17, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> What if you see it like this: Cmd+i inspects. If you can inspect in >>> place, you do it, otherwise, you inspect in a new window. I know it would >>> require a bit of getting used to, but imagine what will happen when the >>> class browser will allow you to inspect in place ... oops, perhaps I should >>> have not say it loud :) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> yes, because it will be "open panel" in playground and "popup an >>>> inspector" everyplace else. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Why do you think that the "Cmd+i" option introduces incoherence? >>>>> >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Esteban Lorenzano < >>>>> estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> you have to pay attention to other lists other than moose, Alex :) >>>>>> nah, seriously: we have been discussing on a remap, because it is >>>>>> conflicting with other keybindings we have in pharo (cmd+o+[others]). >>>>>> >>>>>> For now, we have three proposals: >>>>>> >>>>>> cmd+e âexecuteâ >>>>>> cmd+g âgoâ >>>>>> cmd+i, and remap gtinspector to cmd+I >>>>>> >>>>>> personally I prefer the second one. >>>>>> the third one looks like a good idea, but it will introduce an >>>>>> incoherence in the system (unless we remap everything, everywhere), so I >>>>>> prefer to stick with âcmd+gâ >>>>>> >>>>>> Esteban >>>>>> >>>>>> > On 02 Oct 2014, at 23:28, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > It does in the moose image. Pity, this is so useful... >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Cheers, >>>>>> > Alexandre >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>> > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>> > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

Oct. 3, 2014