October 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by Marcus Denker

On 03 Oct 2014, at 12:46, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 12:21, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > >> Frankly, I see fogbugz issues closed with some ignore/cannot reproduce status, so, I am not creating any of them anymore. Why bother, except for blocking bugs? >> > Tell me: What is the difference between a bug that it fixed and one that can not be reproduced? I wonder if people have an idea of the scale of thingsâ¦ - We closed 107 issues the last 7 days - there are 618 open issues - There where 11268 issues reported for Pharo since we started. So when I look at an issue i try to reproduce it. If I can not, I close it. Else this is not possible to do, sorry. Even if I wanted to: If we keep all non-reproducible cases open we soon will be paralysed. (And that by issues that to 99% are fixed). Marcus

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by Marcus Denker

On 03 Oct 2014, at 12:21, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Frankly, I see fogbugz issues closed with some ignore/cannot reproduce status, so, I am not creating any of them anymore. Why bother, except for blocking bugs? > Tell me: What is the difference between a bug that it fixed and one that can not be reproduced? > I have a set of adjustments on my side and work with them. > > https://gist.github.com/philippeback is where I store them, an in HOExtras in my SmalltalkHub account. > > Sad attitude, but I tell you how it is for me. > I think I should take the same attitude. I will just fix stuff for me from now on. Marcus

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] "Browser" on a single class

by Esteban Lorenzano

If just in a class, it will be a lot simpler doing it with glamour, I think > On 3 Oct 2014, at 12:34, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > > Hi. > > I want to make something like a browser on a single class. I.e. just use 2 last lists out if 4 in standard browser. > > Is there already something like that? If not, should I use existing widgets, or implement my own using spec? > > Cheers! > Uko > > Sent from my iPhone

Oct. 3, 2014

"Browser" on a single class

by Yuriy Tymchuk

Hi. I want to make something like a browser on a single class. I.e. just use 2 last lists out if 4 in standard browser. Is there already something like that? If not, should I use existing widgets, or implement my own using spec? Cheers! Uko Sent from my iPhone

Oct. 3, 2014

Poll: What should we use to replace cmd+o in GTPlayground?

by estebanlm＠gmail.com

Te he invitado a rellenar el formulario Formulario sin tÃtulo. Para rellenarlo, visita: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/14y9NJfSk-hsrmcpCMc8sY2cy6za8GAYQ_lipRFL6aW…

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 03 Oct 2014, at 12:21, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > Frankly, I see fogbugz issues closed with some ignore/cannot reproduce status, so, I am not creating any of them anymore. Why bother, except for blocking bugs? thatâs a super constructive opinion, that help community a lot. thanks for sharing. > > I have a set of adjustments on my side and work with them. > > https://gist.github.com/philippeback <https://gist.github.com/philippeback> is where I store them, an in HOExtras in my SmalltalkHub account. > > Sad attitude, but I tell you how it is for me. > > Phil > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > and where is your enhance proposal? > I made a fogbugz search and I didnât find anything related to improve âcmd+o" > > Esteban > >> On 03 Oct 2014, at 09:28, phil(a)highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> wrote: >> >> Well, I am COMPLAINING LOUDLY about this lack of menu entries then. >> >> I hate this super shrunk list of entries in the playground and the GT toolset. I love GT, but I hate those damn menus that do not have what I do need (which is give me the full menu where I do use the same options Kilon mentioned). >> >> Also, on Cmd-o used to open about all tools, yes, Cmd-o Cmd-p --> Monticello >> >> Cmd-o Cmd-w --> Workspace >> >> Cmd-o Cmd-b --> Browser >> >> etc. >> >> Just GTInspect >> >> KMCategory allInstances >> >> and see the two global shortcuts categories (one for Spotlight, one for the global shortcuts - and yeah, they should have a name displayed other than nil). >> >> On my own little Pharo, I've set addtional shortcuts for the Finder, the File Browser etc as these are sorely missing. >> >> And GT as well. Cmd-o Cmd-g for opening a Play<g>round. >> So that I can keep Cmd-o Cmd-w for opening a Workspace and keeping all of its abilities intact (and not feel crippled by those replacements). >> >> I actually like Esteban's proposal for Cmd-g as what we do with the playground is "give it a go", which is different from a doIt, which can stay local and not have side effects on the right side. >> >> Phil >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: >> >> On 02 Oct 2014, at 21:36, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 5:19 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> Is it just me or is the Playground a big step back in the usability of Pharo ? >>> >>> For me its Gui makes no sense. Gone is the right click menu which had tons of useful actions now you only get like a few options. The tab thing is weird to say the least with the navigation of the tabs being in the opposite side (bottom) of the navigation of the internal tabs(top). No more right arrow menu for shortcuts and many features that workspace had. >>> >>> I will concede that the contextual menu is incomplete. We will work on that. In the meantime, the keybindings work as in the classic workspace. >>> >> >> And one needs to take into account that the âpullâ strategy for menu items is much better than a âpushâ: Instead of adding just everything that was there, wait till people >> get *really* upset and implement it. This proves that they *really* need it :-) >> >> In a way we used that strategy *a lot* for Pharoâ¦ we removed so many menu entries everywhere. Or Settingsâ¦ the amount of settings that I removed, I guess >100? >> >> And the fun thing is: nobody ever complained :-) >> >> But if I would have asked: you can be sure that someone reacts like âI never used it but now that you tell me, I want to keep itâ. >> (this is true for every unused feature. Just remove and wait. Never ask. If you ask you will have to keep it. People react to removing unused features as if you would >> take something away from them that was just stored securely for bad times, as if it would be deeply ingrained in our genes or something). >> >> Marcus >> > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Esteban Lorenzano

wellâ¦ but I still keep my argument: current cmd+i semantics is âpopup a new inspectorâ, if we change that *just in the playgroundâ, it will be annoying. anyway, looks like opinions are divided: I believe that using cmd+i is bad, while the rest of the world believe is the best way to go. but since Iâm not sure, Iâm making a poll to see the general opinion :) Esteban > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:13, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:08, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> >> Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> >>> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >>> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and other thing in other parts of the system". >> >> Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. >> I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. >> > > another argument: everyone agrees that we open too many windows (*far* too many windows) and that we > need to change the IDE to do that less. > > Now if we declare âevery keystroke that used to open a window needs to open a window forever and in all > contextsâ, then it will be hard to solve the window-plagueâ¦ > > Marcus >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by phil＠highoctane.be

Frankly, I see fogbugz issues closed with some ignore/cannot reproduce status, so, I am not creating any of them anymore. Why bother, except for blocking bugs? I have a set of adjustments on my side and work with them. https://gist.github.com/philippeback is where I store them, an in HOExtras in my SmalltalkHub account. Sad attitude, but I tell you how it is for me. Phil On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > and where is your enhance proposal? > I made a fogbugz search and I didnât find anything related to improve > âcmd+o" > > Esteban > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 09:28, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > Well, I am COMPLAINING LOUDLY about this lack of menu entries then. > > I hate this super shrunk list of entries in the playground and the GT > toolset. I love GT, but I hate those damn menus that do not have what I do > need (which is give me the full menu where I do use the same options Kilon > mentioned). > > Also, on Cmd-o used to open about all tools, yes, Cmd-o Cmd-p --> > Monticello > > Cmd-o Cmd-w --> Workspace > > Cmd-o Cmd-b --> Browser > > etc. > > Just GTInspect > > KMCategory allInstances > > and see the two global shortcuts categories (one for Spotlight, one for > the global shortcuts - and yeah, they should have a name displayed other > than nil). > > On my own little Pharo, I've set addtional shortcuts for the Finder, the > File Browser etc as these are sorely missing. > > And GT as well. Cmd-o Cmd-g for opening a Play<g>round. > So that I can keep Cmd-o Cmd-w for opening a Workspace and keeping all of > its abilities intact (and not feel crippled by those replacements). > > I actually like Esteban's proposal for Cmd-g as what we do with the > playground is "give it a go", which is different from a doIt, which can > stay local and not have side effects on the right side. > > Phil > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > >> >> On 02 Oct 2014, at 21:36, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 5:19 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Is it just me or is the Playground a big step back in the usability of >>> Pharo ? >>> >>> For me its Gui makes no sense. Gone is the right click menu which had >>> tons of useful actions now you only get like a few options. The tab thing >>> is weird to say the least with the navigation of the tabs being in the >>> opposite side (bottom) of the navigation of the internal tabs(top). No more >>> right arrow menu for shortcuts and many features that workspace had. >>> >> >> I will concede that the contextual menu is incomplete. We will work on >> that. In the meantime, the keybindings work as in the classic workspace. >> >> >> And one needs to take into account that the âpullâ strategy for menu >> items is much better than a âpushâ: Instead of adding just everything that >> was there, wait till people >> get *really* upset and implement it. This proves that they *really* need >> it :-) >> >> In a way we used that strategy *a lot* for Pharoâ¦ we removed so many menu >> entries everywhere. Or Settingsâ¦ the amount of settings that I removed, I >> guess >100? >> >> And the fun thing is: nobody ever complained :-) >> >> But if I would have asked: you can be sure that someone reacts like âI >> never used it but now that you tell me, I want to keep itâ. >> (this is true for every unused feature. Just remove and wait. Never ask. >> If you ask you will have to keep it. People react to removing unused >> features as if you would >> take something away from them that was just stored securely for bad >> times, as if it would be deeply ingrained in our genes or something). >> >> Marcus >> > > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by Esteban Lorenzano

and where is your enhance proposal? I made a fogbugz search and I didnât find anything related to improve âcmd+o" Esteban > On 03 Oct 2014, at 09:28, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > Well, I am COMPLAINING LOUDLY about this lack of menu entries then. > > I hate this super shrunk list of entries in the playground and the GT toolset. I love GT, but I hate those damn menus that do not have what I do need (which is give me the full menu where I do use the same options Kilon mentioned). > > Also, on Cmd-o used to open about all tools, yes, Cmd-o Cmd-p --> Monticello > > Cmd-o Cmd-w --> Workspace > > Cmd-o Cmd-b --> Browser > > etc. > > Just GTInspect > > KMCategory allInstances > > and see the two global shortcuts categories (one for Spotlight, one for the global shortcuts - and yeah, they should have a name displayed other than nil). > > On my own little Pharo, I've set addtional shortcuts for the Finder, the File Browser etc as these are sorely missing. > > And GT as well. Cmd-o Cmd-g for opening a Play<g>round. > So that I can keep Cmd-o Cmd-w for opening a Workspace and keeping all of its abilities intact (and not feel crippled by those replacements). > > I actually like Esteban's proposal for Cmd-g as what we do with the playground is "give it a go", which is different from a doIt, which can stay local and not have side effects on the right side. > > Phil > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: > > On 02 Oct 2014, at 21:36, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 5:19 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: >> Is it just me or is the Playground a big step back in the usability of Pharo ? >> >> For me its Gui makes no sense. Gone is the right click menu which had tons of useful actions now you only get like a few options. The tab thing is weird to say the least with the navigation of the tabs being in the opposite side (bottom) of the navigation of the internal tabs(top). No more right arrow menu for shortcuts and many features that workspace had. >> >> I will concede that the contextual menu is incomplete. We will work on that. In the meantime, the keybindings work as in the classic workspace. >> > > And one needs to take into account that the âpullâ strategy for menu items is much better than a âpushâ: Instead of adding just everything that was there, wait till people > get *really* upset and implement it. This proves that they *really* need it :-) > > In a way we used that strategy *a lot* for Pharoâ¦ we removed so many menu entries everywhere. Or Settingsâ¦ the amount of settings that I removed, I guess >100? > > And the fun thing is: nobody ever complained :-) > > But if I would have asked: you can be sure that someone reacts like âI never used it but now that you tell me, I want to keep itâ. > (this is true for every unused feature. Just remove and wait. Never ask. If you ask you will have to keep it. People react to removing unused features as if you would > take something away from them that was just stored securely for bad times, as if it would be deeply ingrained in our genes or something). > > Marcus >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 03 Oct 2014, at 11:40, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Indeed, they are not ready for the dark theme. > > As for Pharo-ready, I would rather take the opportunity to create a set of icons that are Pharo specific. I can try to play with that. > > @Esteban: could you point me to where I should look for the currently used icons? current icons are in: EclipseUIThemeIcons and around. but Iâm starting to refactorise all that monolithic crap we have now. I was just now discussing an idea (more or less same we discussed before around themes) to solve this (still not completely doneâ¦) Esteban > > Cheers, > Doru > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > No, they are not "Pharo ready" in general. I'm working in a change proposal... > > > > On 3 Oct 2014, at 09:30, "phil(a)highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be>" <phil(a)highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be>> wrote: > >> Question about those icons, are they DarkTheme ready? I have had to invert them all by hand to have something looking nice (and do all kinds of changes to be able to read the contents). >> >> Also, as GT is using Rubric, the default black/dark text has to be turned into white as well as the cursor color in order to see something. >> >> Phil >> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: >> On a separate note, I played with another variation of a go icon that would be more specific to Pharo. Would you like this better? >> >> <go-icon.png> >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: >> I understand. But, even now, you associated Cmd+i as a window action. Is it a stretch to see it as a logical action that materializes in different ways? >> >> Doru >> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: >> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and other thing in other parts of the system". >> For me, thatâs not coherent, and introduces a level of pain. >> We are still trying to fix the annoying introduced by nautilus because commands are different on it than the rest of the systemâ¦ I would like to avoid that. >> >> Esteban >> >>> On 03 Oct 2014, at 08:17, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> What if you see it like this: Cmd+i inspects. If you can inspect in place, you do it, otherwise, you inspect in a new window. I know it would require a bit of getting used to, but imagine what will happen when the class browser will allow you to inspect in place ... oops, perhaps I should have not say it loud :) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> yes, because it will be "open panel" in playground and "popup an inspector" everyplace else. >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: >>> Why do you think that the "Cmd+i" option introduces incoherence? >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> you have to pay attention to other lists other than moose, Alex :) >>> nah, seriously: we have been discussing on a remap, because it is conflicting with other keybindings we have in pharo (cmd+o+[others]). >>> >>> For now, we have three proposals: >>> >>> cmd+e âexecuteâ >>> cmd+g âgoâ >>> cmd+i, and remap gtinspector to cmd+I >>> >>> personally I prefer the second one. >>> the third one looks like a good idea, but it will introduce an incoherence in the system (unless we remap everything, everywhere), so I prefer to stick with âcmd+gâ >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> > On 02 Oct 2014, at 23:28, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com <mailto:alexandre.bergel@me.com>> wrote: >>> > >>> > It does in the moose image. Pity, this is so useful... >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > Alexandre >>> > -- >>> > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu <http://www.bergel.eu/> >>> > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> > > "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014