October 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Poll: What should we use to replace cmd+o in GTPlayground?

by Tudor Girba

Yes, it is meant to replace the classic inspector. Did you notice that anything is missing? Doru On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 1:24 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > will gtinspector replace the existing inspector ? will it offer all the > functionality that the existing inspector offers ? > > if yes, then I think its obvious that cmd+i is the best choice here. > > I also think that is time for pharo to get its own shortcut manager so you > guys not have to worry about these things. So it makes it easy to map keys > to functionality. > > 2014-10-03 13:27 GMT+03:00 <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > > Si tienes problemas para visualizar o enviar este formulario, puedes >> rellenarlo online: >> >> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/14y9NJfSk-hsrmcpCMc8sY2cy6za8GAYQ_lipRFL6aW… >> >> Formulario sin tÃtulo >> *Obligatorio >> >> What should we use to "open gtinspector in playground" (formerly >> cmd+o) * >> - let's remap cmd+i, it is the best option >> - I prefer to use other map, let's use cmd+g (or e) >> Nunca envÃes contraseÃ±as a travÃ©s de Formularios de Google. >> >> Con la tecnologÃa de >> [image: Formularios de Google] >> Este contenido no ha sido creado ni aprobado por Google. >> Informar sobre abusos >> <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/14y9NJfSk-hsrmcpCMc8sY2cy6za8GAYQ_lipRFL6aW…> >> - Condiciones del servicio <http://www.google.com/accounts/TOS> - Otros >> tÃ©rminos <http://www.google.com/google-d-s/terms.html> >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Poll: What should we use to replace cmd+o in GTPlayground?

by kilon alios

will gtinspector replace the existing inspector ? will it offer all the functionality that the existing inspector offers ? if yes, then I think its obvious that cmd+i is the best choice here. I also think that is time for pharo to get its own shortcut manager so you guys not have to worry about these things. So it makes it easy to map keys to functionality. 2014-10-03 13:27 GMT+03:00 <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > Si tienes problemas para visualizar o enviar este formulario, puedes > rellenarlo online: > > https://docs.google.com/forms/d/14y9NJfSk-hsrmcpCMc8sY2cy6za8GAYQ_lipRFL6aW… > > Formulario sin tÃtulo > *Obligatorio > > What should we use to "open gtinspector in playground" (formerly > cmd+o) * > - let's remap cmd+i, it is the best option > - I prefer to use other map, let's use cmd+g (or e) > Nunca envÃes contraseÃ±as a travÃ©s de Formularios de Google. > > Con la tecnologÃa de > [image: Formularios de Google] > Este contenido no ha sido creado ni aprobado por Google. > Informar sobre abusos > <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/14y9NJfSk-hsrmcpCMc8sY2cy6za8GAYQ_lipRFL6aW…> > - Condiciones del servicio <http://www.google.com/accounts/TOS> - Otros > tÃ©rminos <http://www.google.com/google-d-s/terms.html> > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by kilon alios

Well my problem was that I was caught by suprise, I saw workspace disappear and suddenly I see a new tool that looks and behaves very diffirently and me not able to do even the most basic stuff I was doing with workspace. I now looking throught your links and I understand now that this is no workspace , its a completely diffirent tool , pretty advanced and very powerful and has some very good ideas in like as you said each object defining its own tabs and representations etc. If playground is to really replace workspace then you need to add an "easy mode" something that people will be able to use without having to read 10 links to understand the potential just for basic functionality. Most likely you already considering doing this. Alexander and Esteban want to play the game of "you having a wrong mindset to figure this out because you are used to other sfuff" but its a game they lost the moment I started coding for Pharo . Actually Alexander's "authors experiment" theory falls on its face when you consider that most people using Pharo if not all, are quite experienced coders and yet they chose to use something that turns coding on its head. On the other this ridiculous assumption seem kinda funny when you bring to your mind the popular quote "I am too old for this shit" of Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon. But apparently even he was not "too old for this shit". The important thing is to hear all opinions, finding out why people complain and do not assume that the absence of complaining implies approval. Only voiced approval is approval. I think Playground looks very promising from what I read from these links and thank you for taking the time explaining some of the concepts to me and of course providing documentation. Yes I do still think that the GUI can become more "begineer friendly" I already offered my suggestions , I am sure others will jump in with more suggestions. Its definitely a tool I will try it more thoroughly. On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > It is precisely those points that are not so obvious that are important to > discover. That is why your feedback is important. Please keep the questions > and suggestions coming. > > Cheers, > Doru > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 9:00 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Thanks I will read those and try it in practise this way it will be >> easier to me to connect the dots. I was not aware of them, maybe add them >> to a chapter to Pharo for the Enterprise to make them more visible , they >> will also need to be added to PBE for beginners because many things about >> this tool are not obvious. Still a long way till Pharo 4 is release so you >> have plenty of time to polish things up. >> >> â >> > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by phil＠highoctane.be

Solution is more engineers. You are not targeted as a person, nor do I expect you to solve this in any way. And you are astounding in how much work you tackle. It is a systemic issue, this is just a symptom. Phil On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 13:03, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > I just tell you what the feeling is. This has happened for a lot of what > I reported. > > > > And what is the solution? I fixed *HUNDRETS* of issues. > > maybe I should stop. > > > Do not mistake me, Pharo is usable and I haven't been encountering > blocking issues in 3.0. > > > > yes, maybe this is because some idiot (me) is going through *THOUSANDS* of > reports of problems, > tries to recreate them, fixes those he canâ¦ and close those where I can do > nothing so I can focus on the > others. > > Alternatively, I can just let all the issue tracker entries open. Will > that lead to a system that is as stable? > > Marcus > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] "Browser" on a single class

by Nicolai Hess

Am 03.10.2014 12:34 schrieb "Yuriy Tymchuk" <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: > > Hi. > > I want to make something like a browser on a single class. I.e. just use 2 last lists out if 4 in standard browser. > > Is there already something like that? If not, should I use existing widgets, or implement my own using spec? > > Cheers! > Uko > > Sent from my iPhone I think that is pretty easy with some spec models. Maybe there is already an example. Hilaire asked for a simple Method editor and i wrote a simple example build with DynamicComposableModel, search the Mailingliste.

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Everybody, please remember that Pharo is an open-source project. People contribute because they want to, not because they have to. This also means that users cannot demand something, they can only ask. I think it is also natural that users make their own customisations and their own selections of which version of Pharo they are using combined with certain packages. You would be surprised at the silent (majority of) users out there, doing their own thing. That being said, 'it is your Pharo' ... Sven On 03 Oct 2014, at 13:03, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > I just tell you what the feeling is. This has happened for a lot of what I reported. > > Do not mistake me, Pharo is usable and I haven't been encountering blocking issues in 3.0. > > Phil > > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 12:21, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > >> Frankly, I see fogbugz issues closed with some ignore/cannot reproduce status, so, I am not creating any of them anymore. Why bother, except for blocking bugs? >> > Tell me: What is the difference between a bug that it fixed and one that can not be reproduced? > >> I have a set of adjustments on my side and work with them. >> >> https://gist.github.com/philippeback is where I store them, an in HOExtras in my SmalltalkHub account. >> >> Sad attitude, but I tell you how it is for me. >> > > I think I should take the same attitude. I will just fix stuff for me from now on. > > Marcus > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by phil＠highoctane.be

One that cannot be reproduced right off the bat is one which is more complex than meets the eye. Heisenbugs? Still, bugs. Easy to say, of course. Now, maybe putting things as "closed" when you cannot reproduce is not okay with me. I understand the scale of the issues list and that you do your best. And, as much I do want to help the community, I first want to help me first in delivering projects for clients. That is what will help in putting money back in the community after all. I can live with the current state of things, no issue (pun intended). Phil On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 12:46, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 12:21, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > Frankly, I see fogbugz issues closed with some ignore/cannot reproduce > status, so, I am not creating any of them anymore. Why bother, except for > blocking bugs? > > Tell me: What is the difference between a bug that it fixed and one that > can not be reproduced? > > > I wonder if people have an idea of the scale of thingsâ¦ > > - We closed 107 issues the last 7 days > - there are 618 open issues > - There where 11268 issues reported for Pharo since we started. > > So when I look at an issue i try to reproduce it. If I can not, I close > it. Else this is not possible to do, sorry. Even if I wanted to: If we keep > all non-reproducible cases open we soon will be paralysed. (And that by > issues that to 99% are fixed). > > Marcus > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by Marcus Denker

On 03 Oct 2014, at 13:03, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > I just tell you what the feeling is. This has happened for a lot of what I reported. > And what is the solution? I fixed *HUNDRETS* of issues. maybe I should stop. > Do not mistake me, Pharo is usable and I haven't been encountering blocking issues in 3.0. > yes, maybe this is because some idiot (me) is going through *THOUSANDS* of reports of problems, tries to recreate them, fixes those he canâ¦ and close those where I can do nothing so I can focus on the others. Alternatively, I can just let all the issue tracker entries open. Will that lead to a system that is as stable? Marcus

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by phil＠highoctane.be

I just tell you what the feeling is. This has happened for a lot of what I reported. Do not mistake me, Pharo is usable and I haven't been encountering blocking issues in 3.0. Phil On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 12:21, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > Frankly, I see fogbugz issues closed with some ignore/cannot reproduce > status, so, I am not creating any of them anymore. Why bother, except for > blocking bugs? > > Tell me: What is the difference between a bug that it fixed and one that > can not be reproduced? > > I have a set of adjustments on my side and work with them. > > https://gist.github.com/philippeback is where I store them, an in > HOExtras in my SmalltalkHub account. > > Sad attitude, but I tell you how it is for me. > > > I think I should take the same attitude. I will just fix stuff for me from > now on. > > Marcus > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] "Browser" on a single class

by Camille Teruel

On 3 oct. 2014, at 12:34, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > Hi. > > I want to make something like a browser on a single class. I.e. just use 2 last lists out if 4 in standard browser. > > Is there already something like that? If not, should I use existing widgets, or implement my own using spec? > You can parametrize Nautilus with a RBBrowserEnvironment if that fits your needs: Nautilus openInEnvironment: (RBClassEnvironment class: YourClass) Camille > Cheers! > Uko > > Sent from my iPhone

Oct. 3, 2014