October 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

First additions to GT-Inspector

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

I made my first additions/changes to GT-Inspector: === Name: GT-InspectorExtensions-Core-SvenVanCaekenberghe.54 Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe Time: 3 October 2014, 3:03:17.252107 pm UUID: 853cfe8d-314c-4eac-ad67-8c6eff2b4f83 Ancestors: GT-InspectorExtensions-Core-TudorGirba.53 Customized GT-Inspector for Integer, Float and Character === MCZ attached: I made it so that 'State' shows slots only (if any) and takes precedence. I added an 'Integer' tab to Integer with decimal, hex, octal, binary and optional character aspects. I added a 'Float' tab to Float with (binary, base 2) significant and exponent (self = significant * (2 ** exponent)) [the old sign field was not needed since significant is signed already), while making the 'State' show the 2 indexed slots (which is more correct IMHO). I added a 'Character' tab with self, codepoint and unicode aspects. Obviously this has to be iterated upon. I am already very happy that I could figure out how to do this. Much more from the old Eye inspectors will follow. Sven PS1: Implementing this, I sense that we might need an option so that a field can show some label for its value, while clicking further on it would continue on something else (obviously related), differently field by field. PS2: Is is necessary/useful for the States fields in #gtInspectorVariableValuePairs to be a Set instead of something that preserves the order ?

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] blogging about Pharo stuff? send me your link!

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Thank you. HernÃ¡n 2014-10-03 9:47 GMT-03:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > missed in the pile, sorry. > added now. > > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 14:41, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > I have sent you the link to my Pharo blog by private message five days > ago, but never got replied. So here it is again > > http://80738163270632.blogspot.com.ar/ > > And this is my BioSmalltalk blog > > http://biosmalltalk.blogspot.com > > Cheers, > > HernÃ¡n > > > 2014-08-05 10:06 GMT-03:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > >> I know, there are several concentrator pages like >> http://planet.smalltalk.org, etc. >> but I want to put your blog here: >> >> http://pharo.org/blogs >> >> So, please send me (in private, to not pollute this list) your Pharo >> related blog :) >> >> Esteban >> > > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

by J.F. Rick

Hi Esteban, seconding your points, it is important to acknowledge why a solid Pharo core is important and worth striving towards even if it can be painful. First, read Bret Victor's reflection on Doug Englebart: http://worrydream.com/#!/Engelbart He makes the case that the vision that drove Englebart was important to how he realized things, giving the specific example of how his video conferencing system was fundamentally different than today's screen sharing technology. Today's screen sharing is basically a nice hack onto an existing single user system. Simply doing what Englebart did would require a lot of restructuring at the foundation. With Pharo, we have the possibility to really build / refactor from the ground up, building a fundamentally better foundation, ultimately making cool things possible. For my own work, I'm excited about the possibility of building a new multi-touch implementation from the ground up. That said, the current Pharo foundations have a number of problems for me: (1) Graphics are still based on BitBlt, which is slow and ugly. Moving over to Athens will address this. While I have successfully used Athens graphics, I still get VM crashes (which are probably due to Athens as I did not get the crashes beforehand). (2) Sound does not really work. On 64-bit linux, I can't simply play a recorded file as the sound plug-ins really only work for a 32-bit system. (3) Event handling does not get touch events. I've hacked this so far but a sustainable solution would be great. (4) Packages do not facilitate transfer of resources. For my purposes, I need to add images and sound to a package. This is not really possible right now. I am willing to help on these problems for the community but sometimes I need support, especially when C code is necessary, rather than Pharo code. For instance, if I could get a VM that gives me raw touch events into Pharo, I could take (3) from there. I'd also be willing to work on (4) but I could use some help. One intimidating part is that there are so many package managers for Pharo. It might be nice if we simplified down to one: the right one. Anyway, you can count me in for some contribution back to Pharo core but I might need some support from Pharo central and it won't happen for at least another month as I'm just getting set up in the new location (e.g., no access to a multi-touch device). Cheers, Jeff On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm writing this because I'm sad about what is happening in this list. > I'm seeing a lot of general negativity and non constructive ways to > discuss things. > I'm also seeing more and more people using Pharo for their particular > interests (which is of course a good thing) but less and less people who > contribute back to Pharo. > Finally, I'm seeing more frequently an attitude of "customer", more than > the conviction than this, Pharo, is also yours... > > Please people, we (the pharo "core" team) cannot do everything. We do not > have the manpower or the resources to hire manpower. We would like, but we > just do not have the resources (is already a blessing that we can work on > this, for now: INRIA is paying, but what it pays is *research*, not "pharo > the language", so this is a collateral advantage....) > > So, having an OPEN SOURCE project, with limited resources means that there > is a lot of things that depend on the community. > It depends on the community not just to fix, but to enlarge the ecosystem > in general too. > > So, I refuse to believe that we cannot be a cool and helpful community. > I refuse to believe that general negativity and bad humor can overcome the > joy of participating in this collective effort. > > So, here some recommendations for enhance the way we participate: > > - Be positive. Just "this is a s**t" does not help. Even if it is. > - Be propositional. Just "this is a s**t", and not telling what you > want/prefer does not help. > - Be proactive. Just "this is a s**t", and not report, discuss and (at > least time to time) provide a fix/enhancement does not help. > > In conclusion: not helping does not help :) > After all, this is the "pharo-dev" list. I mean, the list of people > wanting to participate from this great, community effort. > > cheers, > Esteban, still grateful of belonging to this community > > > > -- Jochen "Jeff" Rick, Ph.D. http://www.je77.com/ Skype ID: jochenrick

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

+1 On 03 Oct 2014, at 14:53, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Or it can be "Do it and go". > > Doru > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Ok. Then how do we call the action? > > I like "gInspect", but that is not useful for non-deeply-into-the-joke-people. Would "Go" be fine? > > Cheers, > Doru > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > yeah, I can agree with that :) > >> On 03 Oct 2014, at 14:27, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> I suggest another thing. >> >> We keep Cmd+g as the "ginspect". And when we will work on the next tools will add this command when possible. >> >> So, in essence, Cmd+i will become the Cmd+Shift+i from my proposal, and Cmd+g will become the Cmd+i from my proposal. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> wellâ¦ but I still keep my argument: current cmd+i semantics is âpopup a new inspectorâ, if we change that *just in the playgroundâ, it will be annoying. >> anyway, looks like opinions are divided: I believe that using cmd+i is bad, while the rest of the world believe is the best way to go. >> but since Iâm not sure, Iâm making a poll to see the general opinion :) >> >> Esteban >> >> > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:13, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:08, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> >> >> >>> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >> >>> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and other thing in other parts of the system". >> >> >> >> Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. >> >> I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. >> >> >> > >> > another argument: everyone agrees that we open too many windows (*far* too many windows) and that we >> > need to change the IDE to do that less. >> > >> > Now if we declare âevery keystroke that used to open a window needs to open a window forever and in all >> > contextsâ, then it will be hard to solve the window-plagueâ¦ >> > >> > Marcus >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 03 Oct 2014, at 14:53, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Or it can be "Do it and goâ. +1 > > Doru > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: > Ok. Then how do we call the action? > > I like "gInspect", but that is not useful for non-deeply-into-the-joke-people. Would "Go" be fine? > > Cheers, > Doru > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > yeah, I can agree with that :) > >> On 03 Oct 2014, at 14:27, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: >> >> I suggest another thing. >> >> We keep Cmd+g as the "ginspect". And when we will work on the next tools will add this command when possible. >> >> So, in essence, Cmd+i will become the Cmd+Shift+i from my proposal, and Cmd+g will become the Cmd+i from my proposal. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: >> wellâ¦ but I still keep my argument: current cmd+i semantics is âpopup a new inspectorâ, if we change that *just in the playgroundâ, it will be annoying. >> anyway, looks like opinions are divided: I believe that using cmd+i is bad, while the rest of the world believe is the best way to go. >> but since Iâm not sure, Iâm making a poll to see the general opinion :) >> >> Esteban >> >> > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:13, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:08, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr <mailto:Christophe.Demarey@inria.fr>> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> >> >> >>> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >> >>> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and other thing in other parts of the system". >> >> >> >> Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. >> >> I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. >> >> >> > >> > another argument: everyone agrees that we open too many windows (*far* too many windows) and that we >> > need to change the IDE to do that less. >> > >> > Now if we declare âevery keystroke that used to open a window needs to open a window forever and in all >> > contextsâ, then it will be hard to solve the window-plagueâ¦ >> > >> > Marcus >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> > > "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Tudor Girba

Or it can be "Do it and go". Doru On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Ok. Then how do we call the action? > > I like "gInspect", but that is not useful for > non-deeply-into-the-joke-people. Would "Go" be fine? > > Cheers, > Doru > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> yeah, I can agree with that :) >> >> On 03 Oct 2014, at 14:27, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> I suggest another thing. >> >> We keep Cmd+g as the "ginspect". And when we will work on the next tools >> will add this command when possible. >> >> So, in essence, Cmd+i will become the Cmd+Shift+i from my proposal, and >> Cmd+g will become the Cmd+i from my proposal. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> wellâ¦ but I still keep my argument: current cmd+i semantics is âpopup a >>> new inspectorâ, if we change that *just in the playgroundâ, it will be >>> annoying. >>> anyway, looks like opinions are divided: I believe that using cmd+i is >>> bad, while the rest of the world believe is the best way to go. >>> but since Iâm not sure, Iâm making a poll to see the general opinion :) >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:13, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:08, Christophe Demarey < >>> Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> > >>> >> >>> >> Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >>> >> >>> >>> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >>> >>> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and >>> other thing in other parts of the system". >>> >> >>> >> Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. >>> >> I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. >>> >> >>> > >>> > another argument: everyone agrees that we open too many windows (*far* >>> too many windows) and that we >>> > need to change the IDE to do that less. >>> > >>> > Now if we declare âevery keystroke that used to open a window needs to >>> open a window forever and in all >>> > contextsâ, then it will be hard to solve the window-plagueâ¦ >>> > >>> > Marcus >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] blogging about Pharo stuff? send me your link!

by Esteban Lorenzano

missed in the pile, sorry. added now. > On 03 Oct 2014, at 14:41, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I have sent you the link to my Pharo blog by private message five days ago, but never got replied. So here it is again > > http://80738163270632.blogspot.com.ar/ <http://80738163270632.blogspot.com.ar/> > > And this is my BioSmalltalk blog > > http://biosmalltalk.blogspot.com <http://biosmalltalk.blogspot.com/> > > Cheers, > > HernÃ¡n > > > 2014-08-05 10:06 GMT-03:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: > I know, there are several concentrator pages like http://planet.smalltalk.org <http://planet.smalltalk.org/>, etc. > but I want to put your blog here: > > http://pharo.org/blogs <http://pharo.org/blogs> > > So, please send me (in private, to not pollute this list) your Pharo related blog :) > > Esteban >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Tudor Girba

Ok. Then how do we call the action? I like "gInspect", but that is not useful for non-deeply-into-the-joke-people. Would "Go" be fine? Cheers, Doru On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > yeah, I can agree with that :) > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 14:27, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > I suggest another thing. > > We keep Cmd+g as the "ginspect". And when we will work on the next tools > will add this command when possible. > > So, in essence, Cmd+i will become the Cmd+Shift+i from my proposal, and > Cmd+g will become the Cmd+i from my proposal. > > What do you think? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> wellâ¦ but I still keep my argument: current cmd+i semantics is âpopup a >> new inspectorâ, if we change that *just in the playgroundâ, it will be >> annoying. >> anyway, looks like opinions are divided: I believe that using cmd+i is >> bad, while the rest of the world believe is the best way to go. >> but since Iâm not sure, Iâm making a poll to see the general opinion :) >> >> Esteban >> >> > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:13, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:08, Christophe Demarey < >> Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> >> >> >>> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >> >>> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and >> other thing in other parts of the system". >> >> >> >> Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. >> >> I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. >> >> >> > >> > another argument: everyone agrees that we open too many windows (*far* >> too many windows) and that we >> > need to change the IDE to do that less. >> > >> > Now if we declare âevery keystroke that used to open a window needs to >> open a window forever and in all >> > contextsâ, then it will be hard to solve the window-plagueâ¦ >> > >> > Marcus >> > >> >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] blogging about Pharo stuff? send me your link!

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

I have sent you the link to my Pharo blog by private message five days ago, but never got replied. So here it is again http://80738163270632.blogspot.com.ar/ And this is my BioSmalltalk blog http://biosmalltalk.blogspot.com Cheers, HernÃ¡n 2014-08-05 10:06 GMT-03:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > I know, there are several concentrator pages like > http://planet.smalltalk.org, etc. > but I want to put your blog here: > > http://pharo.org/blogs > > So, please send me (in private, to not pollute this list) your Pharo > related blog :) > > Esteban >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Esteban Lorenzano

yeah, I can agree with that :) > On 03 Oct 2014, at 14:27, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > I suggest another thing. > > We keep Cmd+g as the "ginspect". And when we will work on the next tools will add this command when possible. > > So, in essence, Cmd+i will become the Cmd+Shift+i from my proposal, and Cmd+g will become the Cmd+i from my proposal. > > What do you think? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > wellâ¦ but I still keep my argument: current cmd+i semantics is âpopup a new inspectorâ, if we change that *just in the playgroundâ, it will be annoying. > anyway, looks like opinions are divided: I believe that using cmd+i is bad, while the rest of the world believe is the best way to go. > but since Iâm not sure, Iâm making a poll to see the general opinion :) > > Esteban > > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:13, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: > > > > > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:08, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr <mailto:Christophe.Demarey@inria.fr>> wrote: > > > >> > >> Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > >> > >>> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. > >>> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and other thing in other parts of the system". > >> > >> Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. > >> I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. > >> > > > > another argument: everyone agrees that we open too many windows (*far* too many windows) and that we > > need to change the IDE to do that less. > > > > Now if we declare âevery keystroke that used to open a window needs to open a window forever and in all > > contextsâ, then it will be hard to solve the window-plagueâ¦ > > > > Marcus > > > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> > > "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014