October 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Indeed, "Code" was the first choice, but that does not work well in object like a CompiledMethod. So, when you inspect a method object you want to see its code, but at the same time you want to see the CompiledMethod class code as well. That is why we chose something that is more neutral like "Meta" to make it as distinct as possible. Now, the other thing we can consider is to offer an icon instead of the text for the Meta (and Raw?) presentation. Cheers, Doru On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > Tudor Girba wrote: > > > and "Meta" showing the _code_ related to the object. [..] but > >> maybe we can find a better one. >> > > Maybe "code" for instance side methods ?... > > "Meta" which will show you the code of the class side of the class, and >> "Methods" which show you the methods of the class. >> > > ...and "Code" for class side methods ? > > Or "methods" and "Methods" for instance-side and class-side respectively, > or "Code" and "MetaCode" ? > > -ben > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] First additions to GT-Inspector

by Tudor Girba

Yes, I like "Raw". Thanks for the ping:). Anyone against "Raw"? Cheers, Doru On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 10:36 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Would it be possible to have 'raw' instead of state? > > Stef > > > I'll make a new version to integrate. > > > Cheers, > Andrei > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> Done! >> >> Doru >> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> On 03 Oct 2014, at 15:23, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Great. I checked it quickly and it looks great. I added you to the >>> Moose team. Could you please commit directly in the repo? >>> >>> Done, you'll have to merge my version since it is two commits behind. >>> >>> > Doru >>> > >>> > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> >>> wrote: >>> > I made my first additions/changes to GT-Inspector: >>> > >>> > === >>> > Name: GT-InspectorExtensions-Core-SvenVanCaekenberghe.54 >>> > Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe >>> > Time: 3 October 2014, 3:03:17.252107 pm >>> > UUID: 853cfe8d-314c-4eac-ad67-8c6eff2b4f83 >>> > Ancestors: GT-InspectorExtensions-Core-TudorGirba.53 >>> > >>> > Customized GT-Inspector for Integer, Float and Character >>> > === >>> > >>> > MCZ attached: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I made it so that 'State' shows slots only (if any) and takes >>> precedence. >>> > >>> > I added an 'Integer' tab to Integer with decimal, hex, octal, binary >>> and optional character aspects. >>> > >>> > I added a 'Float' tab to Float with (binary, base 2) significant and >>> exponent (self = significant * (2 ** exponent)) [the old sign field was not >>> needed since significant is signed already), while making the 'State' show >>> the 2 indexed slots (which is more correct IMHO). >>> > >>> > I added a 'Character' tab with self, codepoint and unicode aspects. >>> > >>> > Obviously this has to be iterated upon. I am already very happy that I >>> could figure out how to do this. Much more from the old Eye inspectors will >>> follow. >>> > >>> > Sven >>> > >>> > PS1: Implementing this, I sense that we might need an option so that a >>> field can show some label for its value, while clicking further on it would >>> continue on something else (obviously related), differently field by field. >>> > >>> > PS2: Is is necessary/useful for the States fields in >>> #gtInspectorVariableValuePairs to be a Set instead of something that >>> preserves the order ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > www.tudorgirba.com >>> > >>> > "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground size

by stepharo

Yes your use case make a lot of sense. > I am using GT in 3.0 and the inspector is indeed supercool. > > Now, I've the standard Workspace on Cmd-o Cmd-w and the Playground on > Cmd-g. Depending on the task, one or the other is better. > > I am using Workspaces as a kind of command prompt in Pharo to set some > state of the system, reinitializing etc. There is zero need to inspect > the result there nor have a large window. Also, the ability to > save/load such workspaces is very useful (as well as making them > unclosable). All of these abilities are lost with the Playground and > the size of the Playground there would be too large. > > There is a use case for both facilities. > > Phil > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu > <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>> wrote: > > I too feel that GT-Tools in general use up too much screen real > estate. It is as if they were designed for big screens and/or > small fonts. But I am concentrating on functionality (views) > first, the look can change later on I guess. > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 17:05, Christophe Demarey > <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr <mailto:Christophe.Demarey@inria.fr>> > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > First I need to say, I love the new GT tools. It really goes a > step further. > > I just wanted to say that I find the Playground window quite big > (at least 1/4 of the whole Pharo window). > > I understand that the size is bigger than a simple workspace to > be able to display panes after clicking play but if you just need > to evaluate ()do-it, print-it) some code, it is over-sized. > > Would it be possible to have a default window size smaller and > resize automatically if you need to display an inspector pane? > > > > Regards, > > Christophe. > > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] First additions to GT-Inspector

by stepharo

Would it be possible to have 'raw' instead of state? Stef > I'll make a new version to integrate. > > > Cheers, > Andrei > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com > <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: > > Done! > > Doru > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe > <sven(a)stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>> wrote: > > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 15:23, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com > <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: > > > Great. I checked it quickly and it looks great. I added you > to the Moose team. Could you please commit directly in the repo? > > Done, you'll have to merge my version since it is two commits > behind. > > > Doru > > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe > <sven(a)stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>> wrote: > > I made my first additions/changes to GT-Inspector: > > > > === > > Name: GT-InspectorExtensions-Core-SvenVanCaekenberghe.54 > > Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe > > Time: 3 October 2014, 3:03:17.252107 pm > > UUID: 853cfe8d-314c-4eac-ad67-8c6eff2b4f83 > > Ancestors: GT-InspectorExtensions-Core-TudorGirba.53 > > > > Customized GT-Inspector for Integer, Float and Character > > === > > > > MCZ attached: > > > > > > > > > > I made it so that 'State' shows slots only (if any) and > takes precedence. > > > > I added an 'Integer' tab to Integer with decimal, hex, > octal, binary and optional character aspects. > > > > I added a 'Float' tab to Float with (binary, base 2) > significant and exponent (self = significant * (2 ** > exponent)) [the old sign field was not needed since > significant is signed already), while making the 'State' show > the 2 indexed slots (which is more correct IMHO). > > > > I added a 'Character' tab with self, codepoint and unicode > aspects. > > > > Obviously this has to be iterated upon. I am already very > happy that I could figure out how to do this. Much more from > the old Eye inspectors will follow. > > > > Sven > > > > PS1: Implementing this, I sense that we might need an option > so that a field can show some label for its value, while > clicking further on it would continue on something else > (obviously related), differently field by field. > > > > PS2: Is is necessary/useful for the States fields in > #gtInspectorVariableValuePairs to be a Set instead of > something that preserves the order ? > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > > "Every thing has its own flow" > >

Oct. 3, 2014

For a DBMS roadmap

by stepharo

so a question: could we have a clear evaluation of the situation? What should be done? Who could write a clear roadmap on DBMS so that we can discuss internally and see what we can do in the next 6 months - Glorp? should be updated? - posgres drivers? - DBXTalk (is is useful or should it not be better to focus on native drivers. Stef

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

by Tudor Girba

Hi, The intention of the message of Esteban is to urge people to be positive. Nothing else. Keep in mind that email is a rather poor environment and simply ask yourself before sending a message if it can have a chance of leading to something better. Positive does not mean no criticism. On the contrary. We need criticism to improve. At the same time, we can always improve the way we deliver criticism. Let's just invest a bit in this positiveness and you will see how people will smile more and more things will get done :) Cheers, Doru On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Iâm writing this because Iâm sad about what is happening in this list. > Iâm seeing a lot of general negativity and non constructive ways to > discuss things. > Iâm also seeing more and more people using Pharo for their particular > interests (which is of course a good thing) but less and less people who > contribute back to Pharo. > Finally, Iâm seeing more frequently an attitude of âcustomerâ, more than > the conviction than this, Pharo, is also yoursâ¦ > > Please people, we (the pharo âcoreâ team) cannot do everything. We do not > have the manpower or the resources to hire manpower. We would like, but we > just do not have the resources (is already a blessing that we can work on > this, for now: INRIA is paying, but what it pays is *research*, not âpharo > the languageâ, so this is a collateral advantageâ¦.) > > So, having an OPEN SOURCE project, with limited resources means that there > is a lot of things that depend on the community. > It depends on the community not just to fix, but to enlarge the ecosystem > in general too. > > So, I refuse to believe that we cannot be a cool and helpful community. > I refuse to believe that general negativity and bad humor can overcome the > joy of participating in this collective effort. > > So, here some recommendations for enhance the way we participate: > > - Be positive. Just âthis is a s**tâ does not help. Even if it is. > - Be propositional. Just âthis is a s**tâ, and not telling what you > want/prefer does not help. > - Be proactive. Just âthis is a s**tâ, and not report, discuss and (at > least time to time) provide a fix/enhancement does not help. > > In conclusion: not helping does not help :) > After all, this is the âpharo-devâ list. I mean, the list of people > wanting to participate from this great, community effort. > > cheers, > Esteban, still grateful of belonging to this community > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014

Updates for Pharo4

by Max Leske

I fixed a couple of issues and failing tests for Pharo4. Thereâs also a couple of new things (e.g. test cases for Context instead of MethodContext) that should be integrated into Pharo4. Cheers, Max

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

by Hilaire

I agree 100% with Thierry. I wrote and complain about it months ago: we need consolidation in the newly developed stuff we have. So it may mean to slow down and polishing. Because from my point of view, I don't understand where is moving Pharo, but true it is moving. Hilaire Le 03/10/2014 17:07, Thierry Goubier a Ã©crit : > unsatisfying "now" situation. I'll carefully evaluate what new stuff is > integrated. New stuff I look to see if they are usable (libcgit > integration, TxText) and what I see is stuff that builds on unstable core > libs extensions (NativeBoost, Athens) on top of an already unstable version > (4.0), and I'm really not impressed by the software development process. > > The end result is, when I see a bug, I'm already at least two versions > behind you guys... so there's nothing worth reporting. There is some > progress on the way things are being done (thanks Marcus for doing the > deprecation API backporting on 3.0) and not much on others (and I speak of > methodology, not of new features being added on). > > If you have the feeling that I don't contribute the way I should or the way > you would like, step back and ask yourself if this is not my "unspoken" way > of me saying that I don't find a way to contribute, or that contributing > effectively is too costly. > > And look! This is not a matter of resources, but maybe a matter of slowing > down a bit, so that the poor community members with limited resources like > me that are not full time on Pharo 4.0 development may catch up :) And > please, no more rejection of feedback, even negative. It just gives me the > feeling you are overstreched, and that Pharo has a problem setting its > goals. -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

by stepharo

Thanks Hilaire. Yes you know it pretty well being a producer is sometimes tiring :) Stef > Le 03/10/2014 13:44, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> Iâm writing this because Iâm sad about what is happening in this list. > Hi Esteban, > > Don't be sad about negativity. I think it is a sign of good health for > Pharo. First of all it is a feedback, it should raise a red flag > somewhere: some expectation is not met, or an expectation for even > better quality. > Then it is a manifestation of hight interest and expectation regarding > Pharo. After all the worst will be to ignore Pharo. > > Of course negative feedback are hard to manage emotionally, because > those feedbacks can be improperly emotionally expressed. I guess with > time people get thick skin to manage it. > > With Pharo becoming successful, the ratio of pure consumer will raise > exponentially, there is nothing you can do with that, but well the net > number of contributors will raise also... and still your number should > not be that bad because your consumers are developers. (if you compare > with DrGeo user, most are pure consumers) > > Hilaire >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2014-10-03 16:42 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: >> You keep doing your great job, but accept that we, outside of the >> internal, core, revolutionary research being made, might have mundane >> necessities. That on the daily basis have more importance than a >> futuristic 128bit manycore vm that kicks JVM's ass :D > > But we even not working on that. JUST PLAIN BUGS. Please grant me a small exaggeration (which was the case). > and if everybody would spend 1 hour per week reviewing and improving some > libraries then we would have more impact. I am. More and more as I'm getting used to the libraries and to the contribution process (which still is centralized). However you can't count with everybody contributing to make Pharo a success. It won't happen to Pharo, as it wont happen anywhere else. Wikipedia isn't a success because everybody contributes, it is a success because there is a dedicated/loyal group of contributors that accounts for 80% of the material published. Pareto principle end to end. > Still Pharo is yours not mine. Sorry, but as others said, I neither share that feeling. And I it isn't something negative to me. I feel part of the community, and as I publish fixes or minor improvements I begin to be part of the contributors. Only being part of the Association or Consortium is the only, reasonable way, of feeling that, and even so I can anticipate myself I won't feel that. >> Please consider than USING Pharo is a way to contribute to it. > yes but we are small and using is not enough Not enough, but don't disregard your users! Take the example mentioned above above Wikipedia. As the user base grows, the motivation for public contributions grows too. And also grows the funding. It's a virtuous circle. >> Even if you had infinite manpower but no one uses it, it would be >> worthless. > Give me 2 Millions Euros and you will see > that lot of people will come and use it. If I had it I'd totally give it, but unfortunately I don't have it. However I don't think it is only about that. Many ventures fail with even more money. With more resources, you would make Pharo better/awesome..., but money only don't create the market nor the demand. Even lobbyists need more money than that to gain traction. Best regards! Esteban A. Maringolo

Oct. 3, 2014