October 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

by stepharo

libraries then we would have more impact. > I am. More and more as I'm getting used to the libraries and to the > contribution process (which still is centralized). Excellent > > However you can't count with everybody contributing to make Pharo a success. > It won't happen to Pharo, as it wont happen anywhere else. > > Wikipedia isn't a success because everybody contributes, it is a > success because there is a dedicated/loyal group of contributors that > accounts for 80% of the material published. Pareto principle end to > end. Yes this is clear. >> Still Pharo is yours not mine. > Sorry, but as others said, I neither share that feeling. And I it > isn't something negative to me. > > I feel part of the community, and as I publish fixes or minor > improvements I begin to be part of the contributors. > Only being part of the Association or Consortium is the only, > reasonable way, of feeling that, and even so I can anticipate myself I > won't feel that. Ok but in other systems did you ever thought that you could improve some core functions? This is my point. >>> Please consider than USING Pharo is a way to contribute to it. >> yes but we are small and using is not enough > Not enough, but don't disregard your users! I do not. I'm writing books, tutorials, videos for them. > > Take the example mentioned above above Wikipedia. > As the user base grows, the motivation for public contributions grows too. > And also grows the funding. > > It's a virtuous circle. > >>> Even if you had infinite manpower but no one uses it, it would be >>> worthless. >> Give me 2 Millions Euros and you will see >> that lot of people will come and use it. > If I had it I'd totally give it, but unfortunately I don't have it. > > However I don't think it is only about that. > Many ventures fail with even more money. > > With more resources, you would make Pharo better/awesome..., but money > only don't create the market nor the demand. > Even lobbyists need more money than that to gain traction. > > Best regards! > > Esteban A. Maringolo > >

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] gt issues

by kmo

I've raised two issues on the GT playground: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14158/Navigation-buttons-icons-at-bottom-… https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14157/Navigation-buttons-at-bottom-of-GT-… When I first tried the playground I never even noticed the dots at the bottom of the window - they do not show up well in the default theme. - (they seem OK in the dark theme screenshots I've seen). Also, I think little dots are not intuitive. It would be better if you had video controller buttons or perhaps little outlined squares with page numbers in them. Dots on their own mean nothing. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/gt-issues-tp4782476p4782538.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

by Tudor Girba

Hi, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Le 04/10/2014 08:14, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > >> Hi Thierry, >> >> On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 12:03 AM, Thierry Goubier >> <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> [...] >> And now, to make integration easier, we pile more stuff on top of >> the existing, bound to be removed, infrastructure: Glamour, Rubric, >> etc... And both Glamour and Spec don't make it easy to solve Morphic >> bugs. >> >> I value your ambition a lot :) But I also feel that it stresses the >> Rmod team, and it leaks over the community. >> >> >> I believe there is a confusion here. GT and Glamour are not maintained >> by the RMoD team. GT is an external project and it is maintained in its >> separate repository. That is why it stresses RMoD less and it is a way >> of scaling. >> > > I agree that the GT Tools are a bit different. Still, TxText integration > will have to work on all users of all forms of text, including GT (and > additionally GT). > Yes. That will become a priority once we address the current issues with GTInspector/Playground. > And now you are starting to have the issue of handling slices on GT from > Pharo: do people have to register on Moose, resynchronize on GT on Moose, > push their slices there, wait for Moose to push a slice to integrate on > Pharo, wait for Pharo to integrate that slice? Something like that. Only there is no wait time to integrate in Moose as GT is a standalone project, and Moose simply integrates the latest development version of all its dependencies. So, there is not that much difference to integrating in Pharo. Once a new stable version of GT is available, it will automatically be available in Pharo. > Also, since more than one year I am working on fixing various Morphic >> problems, and I can tell you that GT provides a significant productivity >> boost in that specific area. In any case, you should also note that >> these tools are under development since several years (the overall >> project started 5 years ago) and they are being actively used since 2 >> years in Moose. I believe we never had that much focus on the tools >> before. >> > > I found that stepping through the opening sequence of GT to debug > MorphTreeMorph a pain and had to find another way to understand the issue. Can you be more specific? What did you try to achieve and did not manage? > I do have specific tools I can use in such circumstances that you don't > have. > What kind of tools? I would be interested in learning about them and the analysis use cases they support. > I agree that Morphic has improved due to the fact GT is exposing it in > different ways (and you solving bugs in there), and that you are > integrating Alain's work (Rubric) in advance. I'm not worried by GT per se > (see above for the contribution things), but by the fact core elements > (Athens, TxText, NativeBoost, git) are a long way from stabilising. > I think the way is not that long. But, I am an optimist. Let's see :) Cheers, Doru > Thierry > > >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] gt issues

by Tudor Girba

Hi, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:32 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > yes managing tabs is essential I think for everyone. This is why I also > asked for window groups. > The issue that Sven raised is not about windows, but about the panes in the inspector. > Personally I dont care exactly how you implement these, the goal , like > Sven said, its all about controlling the amount of information that is show > and the amount that is hidden but yet it can be easily unhidden. If the > goal is achieved I think that would be a big bonus anyway even if the > implementation is not ideal. > > Pharo needs a centralised way to manage tabs and windows, its a system > heavily .... wait that is wrong.... solely based on GUIs. So this is not a > GT issue, its more a Pharo issue. > The problem with GT because is such a detailed tool it exposes this Pharo > weakness a lot more than other tools. > The GTInspector problem will be solved by adding the possibility for each last tab to close. Other features missing are the refactoring tools of workspace, implementor > of, senders of, references of, find etc. > Refactoring are indeed not present, but the rest are there only via shortcuts. The menu entries will come as well. > By the way dark theme works ok with GT tools as far I can see. Which is a > big thumbs up from me. > The icons do not work because the black is hardcoded. We need to change that. > > Also a feature I would ask is since you guys have been succesful into > integration pillar into GT tools , why not offer documentation for GT tools > as part of the GT tools ? Maybe not a detailed one if you dont have the > time just a nice cheat sheat with shortcuts and how to use basic features. > That will likely come as well in some way. Only the way is not yet decided. I would be happy if someone would like to experiment with integrating the Help system with Pillar. Doru > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> If I understand correctly, you would want a way to close panes. Correct? >> >> Doru >> >> On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> > On 04 Oct 2014, at 09:06, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On 04 Oct 2014, at 07:45, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hi, >>> >> >>> >> From the feedback so far, I could not the following issues: >>> >> >>> >> - menus for copy/paste/cut (which I still wonder why they need to >>> exist for a developer, but we will add them) >>> >> - possibility of save/open >>> >> - Cmd+g instead of Cmd+o (already fixed) >>> >> - position of the cursor is sometimes messed up >>> >> - possibility to change the title of the Playground >>> >> - possibility to group the windows (this will likely not be fixed in >>> the same way) >>> >> (did I miss any?) >>> >> - icons and text background are not ready for the dark theme >>> >> >>> >> Did I miss anything? Could the people that want to see any of these >>> issues done open tickets for them? >>> > >>> > I know you can resize with the widget at the bottom, but I would like >>> an option to go back to the original playground view, without one inspector >>> open at the right. This is the third time I ask, and I noticed there were >>> others asking it as well. It could be something hidden like shift/option >>> click on the first circle, but a simple X on the column would be better. >>> > >>> > Why ? Because a playground/workspace is used as a notebook to remember >>> things, I want it to be 'clean'. The same is true for an inspector. >>> Sometimes it is my reference to say a server that remains open a long time. >>> I want it to be clean and as small as possible. >>> > >>> > Please, please, please ;-) >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> > >>> >> Cheers, >>> >> Doru >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >> >>> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 4, 2014

Updates for Pharo4

by Max Leske

Iâve opened an issue with a slice for integration. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14159/Update-Fuel > I fixed a couple of issues and failing tests for Pharo4. Thereâs also a couple of new things (e.g. test cases for Context instead of MethodContext) that should be integrated into Pharo4. > > Cheers, > Max

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

by J.F. Rick

> (1) Graphics are still based on BitBlt, which is slow and ugly. Moving > over to Athens will address this. While I have successfully used Athens > graphics, I still get VM crashes (which are probably due to Athens as I did > not get the crashes beforehand). > > When you get them can you report to see what we can do? > At this point, that's all I can report. Now, it has been several months and it could easily be that it was not Athens or that Igor fixed it already. Once I get back to that development, I'll investigate and contribute what I find. > (3) Event handling does not get touch events. I've hacked this so far > but a sustainable solution would be great. > > Did you check the new OSWindow because > We should now integrate and replace the old events system to use OSWindow > I will check that out. > (4) Packages do not facilitate transfer of resources. For my purposes, I > need to add images and sound to a package. This is not really possible > right now. > > I was synching with Max about the status of libgit and he continues to > make progress so we will get there. > Cool. Max, if you need some help (particularly in regard to resources or documentation), let me know. Anyway, I'm back to doing some Pharo / Smalltalk development (currently server side). Eventually this will translate into contributions. I mainly replied to let Esteban know that there is more goodwill out there than he realizes. Cheers, Jeff -- Jochen "Jeff" Rick, Ph.D. http://www.je77.com/ Skype ID: jochenrick

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] gt issues

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 04 Oct 2014, at 09:36, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Ok. This is already on the roadmap, but opening an issue would not hurt :). Bitte: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14156/Add-a-way-to-get-GTPlayground-and-G… > Cheers, > Doru > > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 04 Oct 2014, at 09:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> If I understand correctly, you would want a way to close panes. Correct? > > Yes, I want to be able to go from the right window back to the left window: > > <Screen Shot 2014-10-04 at 09.24.20.png> > > Sven > >> Doru >> >> On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > On 04 Oct 2014, at 09:06, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On 04 Oct 2014, at 07:45, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> From the feedback so far, I could not the following issues: >> >> >> >> - menus for copy/paste/cut (which I still wonder why they need to exist for a developer, but we will add them) >> >> - possibility of save/open >> >> - Cmd+g instead of Cmd+o (already fixed) >> >> - position of the cursor is sometimes messed up >> >> - possibility to change the title of the Playground >> >> - possibility to group the windows (this will likely not be fixed in the same way) >> >> (did I miss any?) >> >> - icons and text background are not ready for the dark theme >> >> >> >> Did I miss anything? Could the people that want to see any of these issues done open tickets for them? >> > >> > I know you can resize with the widget at the bottom, but I would like an option to go back to the original playground view, without one inspector open at the right. This is the third time I ask, and I noticed there were others asking it as well. It could be something hidden like shift/option click on the first circle, but a simple X on the column would be better. >> > >> > Why ? Because a playground/workspace is used as a notebook to remember things, I want it to be 'clean'. The same is true for an inspector. Sometimes it is my reference to say a server that remains open a long time. I want it to be clean and as small as possible. >> > >> > Please, please, please ;-) >> >> +1 >> >> > >> >> Cheers, >> >> Doru >> >> >> >> -- >> >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] gt issues

by Tudor Girba

Ok. This is already on the roadmap, but opening an issue would not hurt :). Cheers, Doru On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 04 Oct 2014, at 09:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > If I understand correctly, you would want a way to close panes. Correct? > > > Yes, I want to be able to go from the right window back to the left window: > > > Sven > > Doru > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com > > wrote: > > > On 04 Oct 2014, at 09:06, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > > > > > On 04 Oct 2014, at 07:45, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> From the feedback so far, I could not the following issues: > >> > >> - menus for copy/paste/cut (which I still wonder why they need to exist > for a developer, but we will add them) > >> - possibility of save/open > >> - Cmd+g instead of Cmd+o (already fixed) > >> - position of the cursor is sometimes messed up > >> - possibility to change the title of the Playground > >> - possibility to group the windows (this will likely not be fixed in > the same way) > >> (did I miss any?) > >> - icons and text background are not ready for the dark theme > >> > >> Did I miss anything? Could the people that want to see any of these > issues done open tickets for them? > > > > I know you can resize with the widget at the bottom, but I would like an > option to go back to the original playground view, without one inspector > open at the right. This is the third time I ask, and I noticed there were > others asking it as well. It could be something hidden like shift/option > click on the first circle, but a simple X on the column would be better. > > > > Why ? Because a playground/workspace is used as a notebook to remember > things, I want it to be 'clean'. The same is true for an inspector. > Sometimes it is my reference to say a server that remains open a long time. > I want it to be clean and as small as possible. > > > > Please, please, please ;-) > > +1 > > > > >> Cheers, > >> Doru > >> > >> -- > >> www.tudorgirba.com > >> > >> "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] gt issues

by kilon alios

yes managing tabs is essential I think for everyone. This is why I also asked for window groups. Personally I dont care exactly how you implement these, the goal , like Sven said, its all about controlling the amount of information that is show and the amount that is hidden but yet it can be easily unhidden. If the goal is achieved I think that would be a big bonus anyway even if the implementation is not ideal. Pharo needs a centralised way to manage tabs and windows, its a system heavily .... wait that is wrong.... solely based on GUIs. So this is not a GT issue, its more a Pharo issue. The problem with GT because is such a detailed tool it exposes this Pharo weakness a lot more than other tools. Other features missing are the refactoring tools of workspace, implementor of, senders of, references of, find etc. By the way dark theme works ok with GT tools as far I can see. Which is a big thumbs up from me. Also a feature I would ask is since you guys have been succesful into integration pillar into GT tools , why not offer documentation for GT tools as part of the GT tools ? Maybe not a detailed one if you dont have the time just a nice cheat sheat with shortcuts and how to use basic features. On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > If I understand correctly, you would want a way to close panes. Correct? > > Doru > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> > On 04 Oct 2014, at 09:06, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On 04 Oct 2014, at 07:45, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> From the feedback so far, I could not the following issues: >> >> >> >> - menus for copy/paste/cut (which I still wonder why they need to >> exist for a developer, but we will add them) >> >> - possibility of save/open >> >> - Cmd+g instead of Cmd+o (already fixed) >> >> - position of the cursor is sometimes messed up >> >> - possibility to change the title of the Playground >> >> - possibility to group the windows (this will likely not be fixed in >> the same way) >> >> (did I miss any?) >> >> - icons and text background are not ready for the dark theme >> >> >> >> Did I miss anything? Could the people that want to see any of these >> issues done open tickets for them? >> > >> > I know you can resize with the widget at the bottom, but I would like >> an option to go back to the original playground view, without one inspector >> open at the right. This is the third time I ask, and I noticed there were >> others asking it as well. It could be something hidden like shift/option >> click on the first circle, but a simple X on the column would be better. >> > >> > Why ? Because a playground/workspace is used as a notebook to remember >> things, I want it to be 'clean'. The same is true for an inspector. >> Sometimes it is my reference to say a server that remains open a long time. >> I want it to be clean and as small as possible. >> > >> > Please, please, please ;-) >> >> +1 >> >> > >> >> Cheers, >> >> Doru >> >> >> >> -- >> >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > >> > >> >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

Oct. 4, 2014

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/40281 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Oct. 4, 2014