January 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Esteban Lorenzano

I put my images into a ~/Pharo/imageDir/image I agree in the one dir per image approachâ¦ but we were arguing about the root, not the other part :) Esteban On 27 Jan 2014, at 17:53, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > > On Jan 27, 2014, at 2:27 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > >>> I think this is conceptually wrong. Images has to go (by default) into >>> "~/Documents/Pharo Images". (Same as VMWare virtual machines go into >>> "~/Documents/Virtual Machines" and parallels into â~/Documents/Parallels" > > This sounds right but Iâd not take it lightly. > > I donât know what would be best. > > For what is worth, here are some thoughts: > > 1. I wonât put imageS in a folder. More than one image per folder smells > 2. that structure doesnât look very much git friendly. Iâd rather use a Documents/git folder under which Iâd clone any project including the many Pharo based projects. As usual, when you clone a git repo, it has its own folder with its own stuff > 3. I might want to version the image itself in the git repo. Maybe I want keep a track of the VM too > 4. subfolders of the image dir are often used by applications, again, looks like it will easily misfit > > Idea: > > maybe the launcher can be location agnostic and remember somewhere the locations of the lasts images that where opened with it and simply offer links to open the ones at the lasts, say 7 images, paths. You will even evade coupling that to the OS >

Jan. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Sebastian Sastre

On Jan 27, 2014, at 2:27 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: >> I think this is conceptually wrong. Images has to go (by default) into >> "~/Documents/Pharo Images". (Same as VMWare virtual machines go into >> "~/Documents/Virtual Machines" and parallels into â~/Documents/Parallels" This sounds right but Iâd not take it lightly. I donât know what would be best. For what is worth, here are some thoughts: 1. I wonât put imageS in a folder. More than one image per folder smells 2. that structure doesnât look very much git friendly. Iâd rather use a Documents/git folder under which Iâd clone any project including the many Pharo based projects. As usual, when you clone a git repo, it has its own folder with its own stuff 3. I might want to version the image itself in the git repo. Maybe I want keep a track of the VM too 4. subfolders of the image dir are often used by applications, again, looks like it will easily misfit Idea: maybe the launcher can be location agnostic and remember somewhere the locations of the lasts images that where opened with it and simply offer links to open the ones at the lasts, say 7 images, paths. You will even evade coupling that to the OS

Jan. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Marcus Denker

On 27 Jan 2014, at 17:42, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > > On Dec 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I have to say though I would love for someone to fix the update process too, the whole deal of dowloading the latest release and then installing from scratch all my third party libraries is killing my inner child. Probably I should make a configuration of my setup, but still, I would love to click "update" and automagically get updated to latest version. > People are using CI serversâ¦ the update process for the development version is *very* hard to keep alive over big transformations of existing instances. if then most people use CI servers and download a fresh image each morningâ¦ the work is very hard to justify. Marcus

Jan. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Sean P. DeNigris

kilon alios wrote > the > whole deal of dowloading the latest release and then installing from > scratch all my third party libraries is killing my inner child I may not be understanding what you mean, but do you know about World->System->'Software update'? I didn't. It won't update across major versions (2.0 -> 3.0), but e.g. 20625 -> 20628 no problem. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoLauncher-as-the-default-Pharo-download-on-pharo-… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Sebastian Sastre

On Dec 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I have to say though I would love for someone to fix the update process too, the whole deal of dowloading the latest release and then installing from scratch all my third party libraries is killing my inner child. Probably I should make a configuration of my setup, but still, I would love to click "update" and automagically get updated to latest version. An incentive: once you have your own ConfigurationOfAmazingProject you have a way to rebuild yourself from scratch with no effort* thatâs powerful because, not always, but every once in a while, things happen to images If you do that, youâll be your inner childâs hero when sh*t happens ;) *only time and sometimes maintain the versions of what it should load

Jan. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Sean P. DeNigris

EstebanLM wrote > I think this is conceptually wrong. Images has to go (by default) into > "~/Documents/Pharo Images". (Same as VMWare virtual machines go into > "~/Documents/Virtual Machines" and parallels into â~/Documents/Parallels" +1 ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoLauncher-as-the-default-Pharo-download-on-pharo-… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Esteban Lorenzano

On 27 Jan 2014, at 17:12, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Mark Bestley <st(a)bestley.co.uk> wrote: >> 1) Setting of the default directories - these should be more Apple standard >> i.e. images not in preferences and even better in a Sandbox so eventually >> could be available via App Store which would increase the number of people >> who would see it. (I have use the settings to change the directory for me.) > > > I changed the default directories on all systems: > > - mac: ~/Library/Application Support/Pharo/images > - win: %APPDATA%\Pharo\images > - unix: ~/.local/share/Pharo/images I already told you: I think this is conceptually wrong. Images has to go (by default) into "~/Documents/Pharo Images". (Same as VMWare virtual machines go into "~/Documents/Virtual Machines" and parallels into â~/Documents/Parallels" al the rest: +1 :) Esteban > > And everyone can change these values to what they want like a dropbox > folder (just go to the launcher settings, change the path, and save). > > >> 2) Dealing with saved images. If you do a save as.. the this new image does >> not show in the launcher. >> I think there are two ways of fixing this >> i) don't put images and source in sub directories >> ii) Make the save as in Pharo create a sub directory > > > agree. I think I will try another solution > > iii) when launching an image, if multiple ones are present, let the > user select with a drop-down. These ways, the concept of a "launcher's > image" can still be seen as a project whereas the .image files can be > seen as versions of this project. > > >> Point ii) leads onto making the save of an image save to an OSX bundle (i.e. >> a directory containing several files that OSX can see as one unit) > > > I don't understand that > > >> 3) The icons need to have more responsive pop-overs to explain what they >> do.(I almost wrote any pop-over but after a minute I can get them 30% of the >> time) > > > I don't understand that as well > > >> 4) For first time users I think the right pane needs a look at - users will >> not know which is the correct template to use. I would suggest making the >> Pharo latest stable a top level entry and highlighting that. > > > agree, I will fix that > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without > losing enthusiasm." > Winston Churchill >

Jan. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Damien Cassou

On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Mark Bestley <st(a)bestley.co.uk> wrote: > 1) Setting of the default directories - these should be more Apple standard > i.e. images not in preferences and even better in a Sandbox so eventually > could be available via App Store which would increase the number of people > who would see it. (I have use the settings to change the directory for me.) I changed the default directories on all systems: - mac: ~/Library/Application Support/Pharo/images - win: %APPDATA%\Pharo\images - unix: ~/.local/share/Pharo/images And everyone can change these values to what they want like a dropbox folder (just go to the launcher settings, change the path, and save). > 2) Dealing with saved images. If you do a save as.. the this new image does > not show in the launcher. > I think there are two ways of fixing this > i) don't put images and source in sub directories > ii) Make the save as in Pharo create a sub directory agree. I think I will try another solution iii) when launching an image, if multiple ones are present, let the user select with a drop-down. These ways, the concept of a "launcher's image" can still be seen as a project whereas the .image files can be seen as versions of this project. > Point ii) leads onto making the save of an image save to an OSX bundle (i.e. > a directory containing several files that OSX can see as one unit) I don't understand that > 3) The icons need to have more responsive pop-overs to explain what they > do.(I almost wrote any pop-over but after a minute I can get them 30% of the > time) I don't understand that as well > 4) For first time users I think the right pane needs a look at - users will > not know which is the correct template to use. I would suggest making the > Pharo latest stable a top level entry and highlighting that. agree, I will fix that -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

Jan. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Damien Cassou

On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:52 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I use the launcher all the time , I love it, And why macos only, works on > windows like a charm too. No problem on Linux either. Frankly pharo is the > first language I use that comes with an installer like this. Definetly this > need to be promoted out there. It also shows the power of images and why we > love them. thanks for your kind words. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

Jan. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Damien Cassou

On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > I would start by featuring it more prominently on the download page while explaining clearly what it does. Maybe it also needs its own documentation/promotion web page. that's a chicken and egg problem. If nobody uses it, we can't make it very visible on the pharo.org website but if we don't, nobody will use it. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

Jan. 27, 2014