January 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Please keep your cool new stuff for Pharo 4

by Benjamin

On 31 Jan 2014, at 13:29, btc(a)openinworld.com wrote: > For instance, I've recently submitted a slice for [1] that adds two new methods and a trivial refactoring of one other to Spec's ComposableModel (so I can't imagine it would break anything), but in support of discipline on the feature freeze, I could get by with making these PharoLauncher extensions for now and hold them over to Pharo4.0. > [1] https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12677/subscribe-to-window-closed-event-ou… Spec is actually hold beside Pharo3 now for this exact reason :) So things can continue to be integrated into Spec but not Pharo. And Spec bugfix for Pharo can then also be pushed into Spec. Ben PS: I will review your code within the week end, I am now at the Santiago airport waiting for a 14h long flight :)

Jan. 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

On Jan 31, 2014, at 2:03 PM, Andreas Wacknitz <a.wacknitz(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > Am 31.01.2014 um 14:40 schrieb Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl>: > >> Hi Torsten, >> >> I think it is a design decision / tradeoff, and therefore there is no fundamentally "right way" to do it. For me, it is the same case as the uses: message for Traits. It's not in the template by default because it is used very infrequently. So for language simplicity it should not be there. For me, simplicity is one of the core points of Smalltalk so this is why I feel strongly about it. > > I donât see how this change make Smalltalk (the language) simpler. For me this change looks more like an obfuscation than a simplification. It's simpler because very infrequently used things are not immediately exposed. Again this is a matter of where the design tradeoff is made. If it would be used a lot it would indeed be obfuscation. >> When I say "very infrequently", this is of course a fuzzy metric, I know. And I understand that you do not agree with this design decision. >> >> But on the other hand, I don't think that it is too hard to remember where to add the pooldictionaries: line if you need it, and the old message with this line still works, so all old examples still work. > > How should newcomers know how to enter pool dictionaries? I rarely use pool dictionaries and if I will need it I surely have forgotten about > this change and expect irritation and frustration. I understand that when you want to use it and it is not there there is a cost. Especially if you have forgotten how the message goes. BUT it is a message send, just like any other in Smalltalk. Open a method finder and look for methods with pooldictionaries in there. In 15 seconds you find it. I think that is an acceptable period of time of irritation and frustration. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Jan. 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Please keep your cool new stuff for Pharo 4

by Camille Teruel

On 31 janv. 2014, at 17:40, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 31 Jan 2014, at 17:31, btc(a)openinworld.com wrote: > >> Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >>> Soâ¦ instead following my advice, you people continue submitting and asking for integration things that are API changes. As a result, instead gaining stability we are loosing itâ¦ >>> can you guys please be so kind and stop doing what you shouldnât? >>> >>> I will ask it again: *now* we need to bugfix the upcoming release. Cleanups, enhancements, small additions *are not* bugfixing. And even if you are sure that it is not breaking anything, it most probably will do (for more details, take as an example the mail I will send in 5 min). >>> I know we all want a better Pharo. But at this moment the way to achieve it is to collaborate in testing, reporting and fixing the current version. >>> Thanks, Esteban >>> >>> >> Also time is consumed developing, reviewing and integrating non-bug-cases, which could be tackling bugs. >> >> Can a "Pharo4.0" milestone be added to Fogbugz? Done > > Yes, we shouldâ¦ > > Marcus

Jan. 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] subscript out of bounds in protocol creation

by Andreas Wacknitz

Hi, Am 31.01.2014 um 08:36 schrieb Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu>: > Hi, > > I realized that sometimes, when creating new protocols, it appears an > error "subscript out of bounds: 1". I have not been able -yet- > to reproduce it from a clean image, but it happens often (at least > to me). It seems to me that it has something to do with protocol > creation before any method has been written, but I am still investigating. > I guess I can produce this easily :-) Just hit âAdd protocolâ¦â in the popup menu of the method protocol pane. Enter a name like âprivateâ in the dialog. And then press enter without selecting anything in the listbox above. And voilÃ â¦ Regards, Andreas

Jan. 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

I would like to get to the bottom of this, to be doubly sure there is no remaining problem. Can you send me privately the steps to reproduce so I can have a go at it using the unfixed version? On Jan 31, 2014, at 2:04 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > No, because my pools were not there and my tests were failing. But no matters, it works now :) > >> On 31 Jan 2014, at 17:45, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: >> >> >> What probably happened is that Monticello loading with pooldictionaries was still working, but Nautilus was not showing them. This is the only thing that changed, and the fix addresses the showing part. So you should not worry. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Jan. 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Esteban Lorenzano

No, because my pools were not there and my tests were failing. But no matters, it works now :) > On 31 Jan 2014, at 17:45, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > > What probably happened is that Monticello loading with pooldictionaries was still working, but Nautilus was not showing them. This is the only thing that changed, and the fix addresses the showing part. So you should not worry. > >> On Jan 31, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I donât know what happened. All that I know is that it was not working and now with the last fix it is, so Iâm happy for now. >> worried? yes. But not too much :) >> >>> On 31 Jan 2014, at 14:59, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 30 Jan 2014, at 6:14 , Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Soâ¦ that. >>>> >>>> Is super cool to remove poolDictionaries from the default class template. >>>> What is not cool *at all* is the fact that now my low level projects, who uses them intensively, does not work anymore. >>>> The reason? the classes are created without poolDictionaries. >>>> >>>> So, pleaseâ¦ whoever pushed this change. Please fix it. >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Esteban >>> >>> Sooo, since Iâm curios, anyone care to explain how a change intended to affect whether Nautilus displays pool Dicts end up breaking how theyâre loaded from Monticello? >>> >>> Did Nautilus pick up on the class load announcement from RPackage and end up recompiling the class with itâs own (lacking) default definition or something similarly crazy? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Henry > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > >

Jan. 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Andreas Wacknitz

Am 31.01.2014 um 14:40 schrieb Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl>: > Hi Torsten, > > I think it is a design decision / tradeoff, and therefore there is no fundamentally "right way" to do it. For me, it is the same case as the uses: message for Traits. It's not in the template by default because it is used very infrequently. So for language simplicity it should not be there. For me, simplicity is one of the core points of Smalltalk so this is why I feel strongly about it. I donât see how this change make Smalltalk (the language) simpler. For me this change looks more like an obfuscation than a simplification. > > When I say "very infrequently", this is of course a fuzzy metric, I know. And I understand that you do not agree with this design decision. > > But on the other hand, I don't think that it is too hard to remember where to add the pooldictionaries: line if you need it, and the old message with this line still works, so all old examples still work. How should newcomers know how to enter pool dictionaries? I rarely use pool dictionaries and if I will need it I surely have forgotten about this change and expect irritation and frustration. So, a -1 for this change from my side. Regards Andreas

Jan. 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Sean P. DeNigris

Chris Cunningham wrote > maybe a specific browser to include... A real UI instead of editing a string in a workspace would make these problems go away. Show a little form there, with a button or menu to show/add pool dictionaries/Traits/whatever ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/poolDictionaries-removal-breaks-my-projects-tp4740427… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

What probably happened is that Monticello loading with pooldictionaries was still working, but Nautilus was not showing them. This is the only thing that changed, and the fix addresses the showing part. So you should not worry. On Jan 31, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I donât know what happened. All that I know is that it was not working and now with the last fix it is, so Iâm happy for now. > worried? yes. But not too much :) > > On 31 Jan 2014, at 14:59, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: > >> >> On 30 Jan 2014, at 6:14 , Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Soâ¦ that. >>> >>> Is super cool to remove poolDictionaries from the default class template. >>> What is not cool *at all* is the fact that now my low level projects, who uses them intensively, does not work anymore. >>> The reason? the classes are created without poolDictionaries. >>> >>> So, pleaseâ¦ whoever pushed this change. Please fix it. >>> >>> thanks, >>> Esteban >> >> Sooo, since Iâm curios, anyone care to explain how a change intended to affect whether Nautilus displays pool Dicts end up breaking how theyâre loaded from Monticello? >> >> Did Nautilus pick up on the class load announcement from RPackage and end up recompiling the class with itâs own (lacking) default definition or something similarly crazy? >> >> Cheers, >> Henry > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Jan. 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Please keep your cool new stuff for Pharo 4

by Marcus Denker

On 31 Jan 2014, at 17:31, btc(a)openinworld.com wrote: > Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> Soâ¦ instead following my advice, you people continue submitting and asking for integration things that are API changes. As a result, instead gaining stability we are loosing itâ¦ >> can you guys please be so kind and stop doing what you shouldnât? >> >> I will ask it again: *now* we need to bugfix the upcoming release. Cleanups, enhancements, small additions *are not* bugfixing. And even if you are sure that it is not breaking anything, it most probably will do (for more details, take as an example the mail I will send in 5 min). >> I know we all want a better Pharo. But at this moment the way to achieve it is to collaborate in testing, reporting and fixing the current version. >> Thanks, Esteban >> >> > Also time is consumed developing, reviewing and integrating non-bug-cases, which could be tackling bugs. > > Can a "Pharo4.0" milestone be added to Fogbugz? Yes, we shouldâ¦ Marcus

Jan. 31, 2014