January 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Do you want to accept???????? Discard???????

by Nicolai Hess

2014/1/9 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > > > > On 8 January 2014 22:04, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> I don't like an app that does not ask for my confirmation , because I >> tend to do a lot of stupid mistakes along the way and I want to be able to >> fix everyone of them even before they happen. Please don't remove that, >> that would be reason enough for me to stop using Pharo. >> >> for stupid mistakes, there's (or should be , if missing) - undo. > > Another recipe: just don't make mistakes :) > > >> Undo also wont do, because I dont always realise my mistakes until much >> later on. >> > > sorry.. but then perhaps you should find different occupation? :) > computers (and software systems we writing) will never be smart enough to > predict or prevent you from doing mistakes. putting 'are you really really > sure?' popups everywhere doesn't helps but just serves as a distraction.. > because at certain point, your reaction on these popups become completely > mechanical and just cost you extra time and no cognitive load only a > distraction. > > at the end, it is just silly: the point is that i am always sure about > things i do, when interacting with my computer. if i'm not, i simply don't > (or i save and then proceed with caution).. and in any case, i don't need > stupid UI asking me about things i already decided to do (yes i am sort of > man, who disables file deletion warning, if it provided). > > when you pushing gas pedal in your car, or brakes, are there also popups > which freezes your feet and asks to press yes or no before proceed? > because wrong decision could cost you much more - your own life. > > And having to undo all my work to fix a stupid mistake is a nightmare. >> The only thing that would make sense for removing confirmation dialogs is >> editable action history. Take a look at Photoshop. Some 3d apps also have >> something similar. Every action is recorded at a history ( a list) and >> there is a gui that allow you to remove individual actions without deleting >> or affecting other actions. Very cool stuff. >> >> that what we did with Ben: there is navigation history, where you can > find unsaved changes. but people prefer popping up red herrings instead. > > > > >> >> On Wednesday, 8 January 2014, 11:44, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> i want to discard. discard this modal thingies altogether.. >> and we did that with Ben, but then people turned their nose against it >> and rolled back the change. >> >> >> On 8 January 2014 17:02, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: >> >> I still have these un-interact-able pop ups following me around endlessly >> when I have unaccepted edits in Nautilus. It seems intermittent. Not sure >> how exactly to reproduceâ¦ Anyone else? >> >> b.t.w. the secret seems to be to bring up halos on the pop-up and clicking >> the (x) halo. Trying to click its buttons only makes it angry >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Do-you-want-to-accept-Discard-tp4735220.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >> Nabble.com. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> >> >> > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > I don't think we have to discuss what would be the better alternative. People have different preferences and different workflows. Why don't we make a setting for this? Something like "Codepanes can discard edits", and let Nautilus and other codepanes behave like the Workspace (I remember a time when workspaces asked too before discarding edits) About the editing history, most people said it is a good idea. The reason I reverted this back was not someone doesn't like it. It just didn't worked. As commented in the bug case: 1. not alll interactions created an editing history entry. 2. throwing away the history on window closing was at leas unexpected for some users. 3. the history that was used for both, navigation and editing, is limited to 15 entries Nicolai

Jan. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Athens SVG Import

by J.F. Rick

Hmm. Weird. Could it be a linux thing? Bit order or something? Could it be a transparency issue? Could it be a size of the form? I have forms of size around 200 x 200. At this point, I haven't numerically investigated it. I just notice a significant difference in rendering speed as I switch from forms to SVGs. Perhaps it is having to redraw the entire interface very often. I'll investigate a bit more when I have some time. Cheers, Jeff On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:08 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 8 January 2014 08:59, J.F. Rick <self(a)je77.com> wrote: > >> In good news, I was able to implement the S/s functionality and both of >> my SVGs now load properly. I'll try some more soon and commit the changes >> once I have tested it a bit more. >> >> In bad news, the cacheing was working properly, so I still suspect that >> rendering forms as a paint is too intensive to be practical for many >> applications. I'll try to evaluate it a bit more as I replace forms with >> SVGs. If the forms are causing the problem, then performance should >> noticeably increase. >> >> > I just did a little comparison: > > | surface time | > surface := AthensCairoSurface extent: 200@200. > > surface drawDuring: [ :canvas| > canvas setPaint: Color red. > canvas setShape: (0@0 extent: 100@100). > time := [ 10000 timesRepeat: [ canvas draw ] ] timeToRun. > ]. > time > 0:00:00:00.115 > ============= > > same as above but with: > canvas setPaint: (ThemeIcons current backIcon). > > time > 0:00:00:00.093 > =========== > > same as above but with: > (canvas setPaint: (ThemeIcons current backIcon)) repeat. > > time > 0:00:00:00.956 > > as you can see, even in slowest case, the throughput is: > > 100*100*10000 = 100'000'000 pixels (texels) per second. > > > >> Cheers, >> >> Jeff >> >> > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > -- Jochen "Jeff" Rick, Ph.D. http://www.je77.com/ Skype ID: jochenrick

Jan. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] A question about AST

by Marcus Denker

On 09 Jan 2014, at 07:51, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 09 Jan 2014, at 01:57, Nicolas Passerini <npasserini(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I am looking at the AST of a method like this: >> >> someMethod >> ^ SomeClass new >> >> >> It was a surprise to me that the note for 'SomeClass' is an RBVariableNode instead of a RBClassReference. Which is the best way to tell if an RBVariableNode represents a global reference or an instance variable? > > Yes, is is a known bug. Camillo added that the Parser already specialises variables, but in the end, the code is quite complex > *and* it mixes grammar related things with semantics. > > So the idea is to move that into the sen check phase. > > (the complexity shows by the fact that we just could not fix the bugâ¦ there is a reason why one should not mix pure syntax with semantics concerns) https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10916/RBParser-missparse-some-temporary-v… I will put it higher on my TODO list. Marcus

Jan. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] A question about AST

by Marcus Denker

On 09 Jan 2014, at 01:57, Nicolas Passerini <npasserini(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I am looking at the AST of a method like this: > > someMethod > ^ SomeClass new > > > It was a surprise to me that the note for 'SomeClass' is an RBVariableNode instead of a RBClassReference. Which is the best way to tell if an RBVariableNode represents a global reference or an instance variable? Yes, is is a known bug. Camillo added that the Parser already specialises variables, but in the end, the code is quite complex *and* it mixes grammar related things with semantics. So the idea is to move that into the sen check phase. (the complexity shows by the fact that we just could not fix the bugâ¦ there is a reason why one should not mix pure syntax with semantics concerns) > > On the other hand, there are no references to RBClassReference, so this might be a bug? > No, all the specialised variable nodes are right now not used. What Opal does is to do the analysis in a second phase and to *annotate* all vars with âsemanticâ variable descriptors. So the right way to check for globals is to use isGlobal which does "^self binding isGlobalââ¦ You need to make sure to do semantic analysis on the AST before calling, see #doSemanticAnalysis in RBMethodNode. I really should clean it up.. this is more hurting than helping now. Marcus

Jan. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spotlight Demo

by Tudor Girba

Excellent. I will take a look in the coming today or tomorrow. Doru On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:22 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>wrote: > Sean P. DeNigris wrote > > Merged. The project depends on ActiveTutor now > > I fixed the dependencies and committed a new configuration > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Spotlight-Demo-tp4733076p4735304.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Jan. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spotlight Demo

by Sean P. DeNigris

Sean P. DeNigris wrote > Merged. The project depends on ActiveTutor now I fixed the dependencies and committed a new configuration ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Spotlight-Demo-tp4733076p4735304.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Do you want to accept???????? Discard???????

by Sebastian Sastre

+1 you simply don't get onboard boats that doesn't have lifesaver boats sebastian o/ On Jan 8, 2014, at 7:04 PM, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > I don't like an app that does not ask for my confirmation , because I tend to do a lot of stupid mistakes along the way and I want to be able to fix everyone of them even before they happen. Please don't remove that, that would be reason enough for me to stop using Pharo. > > Undo also wont do, because I dont always realise my mistakes until much later on. And having to undo all my work to fix a stupid mistake is a nightmare. The only thing that would make sense for removing confirmation dialogs is editable action history. Take a look at Photoshop. Some 3d apps also have something similar. Every action is recorded at a history ( a list) and there is a gui that allow you to remove individual actions without deleting or affecting other actions. Very cool stuff. > > > On Wednesday, 8 January 2014, 11:44, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > i want to discard. discard this modal thingies altogether.. > and we did that with Ben, but then people turned their nose against it and rolled back the change. > > > On 8 January 2014 17:02, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > I still have these un-interact-able pop ups following me around endlessly > when I have unaccepted edits in Nautilus. It seems intermittent. Not sure > how exactly to reproduceâ¦ Anyone else? > > b.t.w. the secret seems to be to bring up halos on the pop-up and clicking > the (x) halo. Trying to click its buttons only makes it angry > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Do-you-want-to-accept-Discard-tp4735220.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > >

Jan. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Do you want to accept???????? Discard???????

by Igor Stasenko

On 8 January 2014 22:04, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > I don't like an app that does not ask for my confirmation , because I tend > to do a lot of stupid mistakes along the way and I want to be able to fix > everyone of them even before they happen. Please don't remove that, that > would be reason enough for me to stop using Pharo. > > for stupid mistakes, there's (or should be , if missing) - undo. Another recipe: just don't make mistakes :) > Undo also wont do, because I dont always realise my mistakes until much > later on. > sorry.. but then perhaps you should find different occupation? :) computers (and software systems we writing) will never be smart enough to predict or prevent you from doing mistakes. putting 'are you really really sure?' popups everywhere doesn't helps but just serves as a distraction.. because at certain point, your reaction on these popups become completely mechanical and just cost you extra time and no cognitive load only a distraction. at the end, it is just silly: the point is that i am always sure about things i do, when interacting with my computer. if i'm not, i simply don't (or i save and then proceed with caution).. and in any case, i don't need stupid UI asking me about things i already decided to do (yes i am sort of man, who disables file deletion warning, if it provided). when you pushing gas pedal in your car, or brakes, are there also popups which freezes your feet and asks to press yes or no before proceed? because wrong decision could cost you much more - your own life. And having to undo all my work to fix a stupid mistake is a nightmare. The > only thing that would make sense for removing confirmation dialogs is > editable action history. Take a look at Photoshop. Some 3d apps also have > something similar. Every action is recorded at a history ( a list) and > there is a gui that allow you to remove individual actions without deleting > or affecting other actions. Very cool stuff. > > that what we did with Ben: there is navigation history, where you can find unsaved changes. but people prefer popping up red herrings instead. > > On Wednesday, 8 January 2014, 11:44, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > i want to discard. discard this modal thingies altogether.. > and we did that with Ben, but then people turned their nose against it and > rolled back the change. > > > On 8 January 2014 17:02, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > I still have these un-interact-able pop ups following me around endlessly > when I have unaccepted edits in Nautilus. It seems intermittent. Not sure > how exactly to reproduceâ¦ Anyone else? > > b.t.w. the secret seems to be to bring up halos on the pop-up and clicking > the (x) halo. Trying to click its buttons only makes it angry > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Do-you-want-to-accept-Discard-tp4735220.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Athens SVG Import

by Igor Stasenko

On 8 January 2014 08:59, J.F. Rick <self(a)je77.com> wrote: > In good news, I was able to implement the S/s functionality and both of my > SVGs now load properly. I'll try some more soon and commit the changes once > I have tested it a bit more. > > In bad news, the cacheing was working properly, so I still suspect that > rendering forms as a paint is too intensive to be practical for many > applications. I'll try to evaluate it a bit more as I replace forms with > SVGs. If the forms are causing the problem, then performance should > noticeably increase. > > I just did a little comparison: | surface time | surface := AthensCairoSurface extent: 200@200. surface drawDuring: [ :canvas| canvas setPaint: Color red. canvas setShape: (0@0 extent: 100@100). time := [ 10000 timesRepeat: [ canvas draw ] ] timeToRun. ]. time 0:00:00:00.115 ============= same as above but with: canvas setPaint: (ThemeIcons current backIcon). time 0:00:00:00.093 =========== same as above but with: (canvas setPaint: (ThemeIcons current backIcon)) repeat. time 0:00:00:00.956 as you can see, even in slowest case, the throughput is: 100*100*10000 = 100'000'000 pixels (texels) per second. > Cheers, > > Jeff > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 9, 2014

A question about AST

by Nicolas Passerini

I am looking at the AST of a method like this: someMethod ^ SomeClass new It was a surprise to me that the note for 'SomeClass' is an RBVariableNode instead of a RBClassReference. Which is the best way to tell if an RBVariableNode represents a global reference or an instance variable? On the other hand, there are no references to RBClassReference, so this might be a bug? Thanks, Nico

Jan. 9, 2014