September 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Use pharo users mailing list

by kilon

Stephan Eggermont wrote > Kilon wrote >>Here is a radical suggestion you probably don't want to hear. >>Close down Pharo users mailing list, redirect everyone to stackoverflow. > > Definitely not. Stackoverflow is nearly dead, and seriously unsuitable for > small languages. Good questions will get closed by clueless people. > Good answers will get downvoted because they go against majority > views. The ranking system is heavily skewed towards popular languages. > Stackoverflow doesn't allow discussions (and interesting questions), > which is a major reason to have these lists. > > To see for yourself, take a look at the questions related to OODBs. > > Stephan its dead ? I have not see any pharo questions get downvoted or closed so far. But yeah they are biased and they have a bad attitude at times but in the end all sites have these people. Stackoverflow has like any website it pros and its cons. About discussions in general, how many of the threads that are opened in user forum cannot be formulated easily into questions and answers. From what I see its no more than 10% . And taking into account the frequency of posts in the user forum , I would say no more than 1 per month which is hardly a reason to keep a mailing list around. And there are plenty of general questions in stackoverflow here is an example http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18946662/if-pypy-is-6-3-times-faster-tha… <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18946662/if-pypy-is-6-3-times-faster-tha…> so I do think the level of tolerance is actually quite high. If you take a look at the comments in that link its clear there is an overall discussion on the matter. Also it beats "quote wars" we have over here ;) Now for Pharo Dev specific , yes in that case a forum is a must have because obviously discussions are a main topic here to coordinate efforts and code changes. Anyway it was just a suggestion I am fine using the forum ;) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Use-pharo-users-mailing-list-tp4709698p4709729.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Use pharo users mailing list

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

2013/9/23 Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> > Kilon wrote > >Here is a radical suggestion you probably don't want to hear. > >Close down Pharo users mailing list, redirect everyone to stackoverflow. > > Definitely not. Stackoverflow is nearly dead, and seriously unsuitable for > small languages. Good questions will get closed by clueless people. > Good answers will get downvoted because they go against majority > views. The ranking system is heavily skewed towards popular languages. > Stackoverflow doesn't allow discussions (and interesting questions), > which is a major reason to have these lists. > > To see for yourself, take a look at the questions related to OODBs. > This is true, StackOverflow is badly contaminated. > > Stephan > >

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Use pharo users mailing list

by Stephan Eggermont

Kilon wrote >Here is a radical suggestion you probably don't want to hear. >Close down Pharo users mailing list, redirect everyone to stackoverflow. Definitely not. Stackoverflow is nearly dead, and seriously unsuitable for small languages. Good questions will get closed by clueless people. Good answers will get downvoted because they go against majority views. The ranking system is heavily skewed towards popular languages. Stackoverflow doesn't allow discussions (and interesting questions), which is a major reason to have these lists. To see for yourself, take a look at the questions related to OODBs. Stephan

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Integration Process

by Esteban Lorenzano

On Sep 23, 2013, at 6:21 AM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I spent today 10mins explaining step by step on how to regular Pharo programmers how to create a bugfix for Pharo! > > THIS IS BAD! > > There are many more motivated Pharo programmers outside RMoD, and I am sure that quite some > of them would actually provide bug fixes. The current bug-report process has a way too steep > learning curve. > > > There are a few things we have to change here: > > 1. make bugs.pharo.org finally work with dots in the email message > 2. make bugs.pharo.org automatically send a password reset request (in the worst case we do a redirect/curl on the normal fogbugz site) > 3. make the anonymous inbox work on the smalltalkhub I would not say anonymous... public, yes :) > 4. reactivate the SLICE submitter in the image > > > So who takes responsibility? > > I will take care of point 4 during the following Week. > Plus I made an 8 minute screencast with all the details of the integration: https://vimeo.com/75183993

Sept. 23, 2013

PhaROS issue tracker

by Santiago Bragagnolo

Here i left you the PhaROS Issue tracker https://code.google.com/p/pha-ros/issues/list Thanks :)

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Integration Process

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Camillo you are right. Now pay attention that submitting a fix is not integration of a bug fix. On Sep 23, 2013, at 6:21 AM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I spent today 10mins explaining step by step on how to regular Pharo programmers how to create a bugfix for Pharo! > > THIS IS BAD! > > There are many more motivated Pharo programmers outside RMoD, and I am sure that quite some > of them would actually provide bug fixes. The current bug-report process has a way too steep > learning curve. > > > There are a few things we have to change here: > > 1. make bugs.pharo.org finally work with dots in the email message > 2. make bugs.pharo.org automatically send a password reset request (in the worst case we do a redirect/curl on the normal fogbugz site) > 3. make the anonymous inbox work on the smalltalkhub > 4. reactivate the SLICE submitter in the image > > > So who takes responsibility? > > I will take care of point 4 during the following Week. > Plus I made an 8 minute screencast with all the details of the integration: https://vimeo.com/75183993

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Integration Process

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 23 Sep 2013, at 06:21, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Plus I made an 8 minute screencast with all the details of the integration:https://vimeo.com/75183993 Very nice, thank you ! This should be posted on some webpage somewhere, not be hidden on the mailing list. Of course, the 'Camillo Bruni Coding Speed' might be a bit too intimidating ;-)

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Use pharo users mailing list

by Max Leske

I like that idea. At least some of the questions on the users list are not even Pharo specific but regard Smalltalk in general. Those need not be answered by us but can be answered by anyone with a Smalltalk background, be it VW, VA, Squeakâ¦ On the other hand (I'm not sure about this, since I don't read the users list) there might be topics like job offers / searches, or more general discussions on that list and moving to SO would kill those (one could argue that such topics would be more suitable on pharo-devâ¦) since SO is strictly question and answer orientated. Another argument for closing the users list: Marcus wouldn't have to save two lists the next time the servers go down :) Cheers, Max On 23.09.2013, at 08:48, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > Here is a radical suggestion you probably don't want to hear. > > Close down Pharo users mailing list, redirect everyone to stackoverflow. > > Consider stackoverflow is THE forum for coding, I cant think of a better > place to ask questions for smalltalk and pharo , rarely questions left > unanswered there and I wont even start to discuss how cool of a website it > is. > > Oh and a "minor" bonus is a huge advertisement for pharo. > > But then take my idea with a grain of salt, I don't like mailing lists :) > Thank god for forum.world.st :D > > > Norbert Hartl wrote >> We should use the pharo users mailing list more often. Imagine there are >> people only subscribed to the users list. They can't see a lot of >> interesting posts and the users list does not appear to be very lively. At >> least half of the posts here in the last days I would like to see on the >> users list. >> So if your post is not really about the development of pharo or is not a >> problem with pharo core (external package discussions belong IMHO to the >> users list as well) then consider to post to the users list. Everyone you >> like to reach is subscribed there, too. >> >> Norbert > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Use-pharo-users-mailing-list-tp4709698p4709702.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Use pharo users mailing list

by Norbert Hartl

Am 23.09.2013 um 08:48 schrieb kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk>: > > Here is a radical suggestion you probably don't want to hear. > why not? > Close down Pharo users mailing list, redirect everyone to stackoverflow. > > Consider stackoverflow is THE forum for coding, I cant think of a better > place to ask questions for smalltalk and pharo , rarely questions left > unanswered there and I wont even start to discuss how cool of a website it > is. > I think there is a big difference between a discussion medium and a question-answer site. What I like about this community is the fact that most of the discussions are interesting and have potential to learn something from it. Look at some of the threads. There are often a minimum of 2 replies each making at least 4 or 5 mails of one topic. That is a form of communication that makes sense to me. I would welcome a better way of exchanging ideas than email but I didn't see one, yet. I like stackoverflow as well but it is a poor site for discussing. Discussions happen through the misuse of comments. A lot of the threads posted on pharo users list aren't suited for stackoverflow. So I wouldn't consider stackoverflow a replacement of the users list. > Oh and a "minor" bonus is a huge advertisement for pharo. > > But then take my idea with a grain of salt, I don't like mailing lists :) > Thank god for forum.world.st :D > I see. I would like to see that stackoverflow is used more often but I don't see how. The intention of my mail was that there is indeed a "using crowd" of pharo that isn't interested in the very details of the core development. So I still consider the separation of the lists good. Maybe it is only my lonely view of our world. But as long as we have the two lists I would welcome it if the "normal" stuff would happen on the users list. My point of view is that there should be first a users list. And in order not to startle newcomers the dev cracks should be moved to their own mailing list :) Norbert > > Norbert Hartl wrote >> We should use the pharo users mailing list more often. Imagine there are >> people only subscribed to the users list. They can't see a lot of >> interesting posts and the users list does not appear to be very lively. At >> least half of the posts here in the last days I would like to see on the >> users list. >> So if your post is not really about the development of pharo or is not a >> problem with pharo core (external package discussions belong IMHO to the >> users list as well) then consider to post to the users list. Everyone you >> like to reach is subscribed there, too. >> >> Norbert > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Use-pharo-users-mailing-list-tp4709698p4709702.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Sept. 23, 2013

[update 3.0] #30418

by Marcus Denker

30418 ----- 11661 Small cleanup of dead code https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11661 11659 Add basic Morph Viewer for the Inspectors https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11659 Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Tools-MarcusDenker.1264.diff http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/System-Installers-MarcusDenke… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Spec-Widgets-MarcusDenker.249… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Spec-Inspector-MarcusDenker.9… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/NECompletion-MarcusDenker.135… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/MenuRegistration-MarcusDenker… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Manifest-CriticBrowser-Marcus…

Sept. 23, 2013