August 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] New PharoVM built

by phil＠highoctane.be

Keyboard: Belgian french Key combination that doesn't work: hit the caret key... hit fn-Backspace... both things pretty standard. Phil On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>wrote: > still works for me... looks like a keyboard distribution problem, we'll > check (bah, Guille will do it :) soon :) > > can you send which keyboard layour do you use? > > and exactly which key combinations are you trying? > > thanks, > Esteban > > On Aug 1, 2013, at 12:01 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > Same for me with the backspace. > > Caret impossible to type ( ^ ... needless to say, bad...) > > Umlauts and ~ not working either. > > Smalltalk vm version 'NBCoInterpreter > NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: > acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Jul 19 2013 > NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: > acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Jul 19 2013 > git://gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: > 746b609f0323a8db5de2f1aa36f3eed07e312dfe Date: 2013-07-19 13:54:47 +0200 > By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14619 > ' > > > erfeklfefeefeâ¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦ferf e > > The things with xes is what I get from copy/pasting the string. > > 'azeâ¦â¦â¦uiop' asByteArray #[0 0 0 97 0 0 0 122 0 0 0 101 0 0 35 38 0 0 35 > 38 0 0 35 38 0 0 0 117 0 0 0 105 0 0 0 111 0 0 0 112] > > > > Phil > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I'm seeing the same with latest 3.0. The problem starts occuring as of >> build 165. 164 is still ok. >> >> >> On 31.07.2013, at 18:31, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > On 31 July 2013 17:55, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 31.07.2013, at 17:44, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> works for me. In which platform are you testing? >> >> >> >> OS X 10.8.4, 64 bit, Pharo 1.3 >> > >> > can you try it in 3.0 image? >> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>> On Jul 31, 2013, at 5:32 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> There seems to be an issue relating to the keyboard. I can't type >> any umlauts (option + u) and the delete button produces a question mark. >> >>>> >> >>>> Max >> >>>> >> >>>> On 31.07.2013, at 16:59, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Will do. Thanks! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 31.07.2013, at 16:46, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Hi, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I builded new versions of the vm, integrating latest changes from >> Eliot. >> >>>>>> This integration should fix some issues, between them the annoying >> "SmallInteger" problem. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> You can find it here: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> wget -O- get.pharo.org/20+vmLatest >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> or directly here: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo/ >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> (choose the one that fits the best for you, always the "latest") >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> can you download and check? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> thanks, >> >>>>>> Esteban >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Best regards, >> > Igor Stasenko. >> > >> >> >> > >

Aug. 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Large images reasons [WAS] Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 2.0 with Seaside + DBXTalk + GlorpDBX + Magritte 3 + TWBS is getting slower and slower

by Marcus Denker

On Aug 1, 2013, at 1:31 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Doing the flushCaches... > > Image size before cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository(http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/estebanlm/EclipsePack/m… : 324017564 > Image size after cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository(http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/estebanlm/EclipsePack/m… : 324137232 > Image size before cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository(http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/DripfeedIt… : 324137232 > Image size after cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository(http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/DripfeedIt… : 324195720 > Image size before cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository(http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/HOWebStack… : 324195720 > Image size after cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository(http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/HOWebStack… : 324255300 > Image size before cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository(http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/HOExperime… : 324255300 > Image size after cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository(http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/HOExperime… : 324314868 > > Definitely not going down... > No, we already saw that in your case the reason are many,many instances of MorphExtension without the Morphs hanging around. (which should not happen as MorphExtensions are only referenced by the Morph they extend). Your case is not a case of caches, there is a real problem somewhere. Marcus

Aug. 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Large images reasons [WAS] Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 2.0 with Seaside + DBXTalk + GlorpDBX + Magritte 3 + TWBS is getting slower and slower

by Marcus Denker

On Aug 1, 2013, at 8:56 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > since years marcus is telling that MC storing ancestor information is doomed but we do not have something to really replace it. > This is yet another thing. Monticello keep all history data of all package in image, this is not a cache. When you delete it, your package loses it's history and you can not merge anymore. MCVersionInfo allInstances do: [ :each | each instVarNamed: 'ancestors' put: nil ]. We did that on Pharo2 release and it saved 8MB (nearly a third of the image). Marcus

Aug. 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] New PharoVM built

by Esteban Lorenzano

still works for me... looks like a keyboard distribution problem, we'll check (bah, Guille will do it :) soon :) can you send which keyboard layour do you use? and exactly which key combinations are you trying? thanks, Esteban On Aug 1, 2013, at 12:01 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Same for me with the backspace. > > Caret impossible to type ( ^ ... needless to say, bad...) > > Umlauts and ~ not working either. > > Smalltalk vm version 'NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Jul 19 2013 > NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Jul 19 2013 > git://gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: 746b609f0323a8db5de2f1aa36f3eed07e312dfe Date: 2013-07-19 13:54:47 +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14619 > ' > > > erfeklfefeefeâ¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦ferf e > > The things with xes is what I get from copy/pasting the string. > > 'azeâ¦â¦â¦uiop' asByteArray #[0 0 0 97 0 0 0 122 0 0 0 101 0 0 35 38 0 0 35 38 0 0 35 38 0 0 0 117 0 0 0 105 0 0 0 111 0 0 0 112] > > > > Phil > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I'm seeing the same with latest 3.0. The problem starts occuring as of build 165. 164 is still ok. > > > On 31.07.2013, at 18:31, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 31 July 2013 17:55, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> On 31.07.2013, at 17:44, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> works for me. In which platform are you testing? > >> > >> OS X 10.8.4, 64 bit, Pharo 1.3 > > > > can you try it in 3.0 image? > > > >> > >>> > >>> On Jul 31, 2013, at 5:32 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> There seems to be an issue relating to the keyboard. I can't type any umlauts (option + u) and the delete button produces a question mark. > >>>> > >>>> Max > >>>> > >>>> On 31.07.2013, at 16:59, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Will do. Thanks! > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 31.07.2013, at 16:46, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I builded new versions of the vm, integrating latest changes from Eliot. > >>>>>> This integration should fix some issues, between them the annoying "SmallInteger" problem. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You can find it here: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> wget -O- get.pharo.org/20+vmLatest > >>>>>> > >>>>>> or directly here: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> (choose the one that fits the best for you, always the "latest") > >>>>>> > >>>>>> can you download and check? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> thanks, > >>>>>> Esteban > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Igor Stasenko. > > > > >

Aug. 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Large images reasons [WAS] Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 2.0 with Seaside + DBXTalk + GlorpDBX + Magritte 3 + TWBS is getting slower and slower

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

since years marcus is telling that MC storing ancestor information is doomed but we do not have something to really replace it. Stef On Jul 31, 2013, at 8:53 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > OK, this was was my experiment.... > > Image fresh with all my app and dependencies loades: 30MB > > After using it for some days/weeks: 160MB. > > SpaceTally new printSpaceAnalysis showed: > > Class code space # instances inst space percent inst average size > ByteString 2785 413144 116244078 69.90 281.36 > Array 3712 181772 8466668 5.10 46.58 > ByteArray 8574 1319 8186802 4.90 6206.82 > Bitmap 3653 303 6656340 4.00 21968.12 > CompiledMethod 22467 90554 5685374 3.40 62.78 > > > After executing ImageCleaner cleanUpForRelease: 36MB > > Then...I searched which part of #cleanUpForRelease: was making the difference, and it was: > > Smalltalk cleanUp: true except: #() confirming: false. > > So now it was time to know WHICH class did the diference, so I modified > #cleanUp: aggressive except: exclusions confirming: aBool > > in these lines: > > "Run the cleanup code" > classes > do:[:aClass| > Transcript show: 'Image size before cleaning ', aClass name, ' : ', Smalltalk imagePath asFileReference size asString. > aClass cleanUp: aggressive. > 3 timesRepeat: [Smalltalk garbageCollect]. > Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false. > Transcript show: 'Image size after cleaning ', aClass name, ' : ', Smalltalk imagePath asFileReference size asString. > ] > displayingProgress: [:aClass| 'Cleaning up in ', aClass name]. > > > I then opened a Transcript, and evaluated > > Smalltalk cleanUp: true except: #() confirming: false. > > I went to prepare Mate, and when I come back, the result was, of course: > > "Image size after cleaning MCFileBasedRepository : 39744008" > > That clean up ends up doing: > > flushAllCaches > self allSubInstancesDo: [:ea | ea flushCache] > > So it sends #flushCache to all instances of MCHttpRepository and MCFileBasedRepository. > > Now what I wanted to see if it there was a particular repo that could take most of the space (like package-cache). > And indeed, it was...I modified #flushCaches to: > > flushAllCaches > | file | > file := 'repos.txt' asFileReference writeStream text. > self allSubInstancesDo: [:each | > > file nextPutAll: 'Image size before cleaning ', each printString, ' : ', Smalltalk imagePath asFileReference size asString; cr. > each flushCache. > 3 timesRepeat: [Smalltalk garbageCollect]. > Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false. > file nextPutAll: 'Image size after cleaning ', each printString, ' : ', Smalltalk imagePath asFileReference size asString;cr. > > ]. > file flush; close. > > And then I looked in the 'repos.txt' file. My package cache repo cleaned 60 MB. Glorp cleaned 35MB. Seaside30 cleaned 10MB. > So...cleaning cache of just 3 repos frees approx 100MB. > > The question is....can we flush the cache safely? If they are called "cache", then I guess yes, we can. > > Thoughts? > > Thanks, > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Guys, I have images also with seaside, magritte, glorp, postgresV2, etc and it is also around 200MB. > I will try to do some research today and let you know. > > Cheers, > > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:49 PM, "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > > > the changes file contained passwords and I replaced the text. So offsets may be wrong due to that. > > > Yes, the first thing I wanted to do is to recompile everything. Does not work. > > > Memorymonitor is not doing fanct stuff. It just counts instances. > > > Yes, but maybe it holds on to these instances? > > Marcus > > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Aug. 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Large images reasons [WAS] Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 2.0 with Seaside + DBXTalk + GlorpDBX + Magritte 3 + TWBS is getting slower and slower

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Phil, and the cleanUpForRelease in general does not help at all? On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:30 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>wrote: > Doing the flushCaches... > > Image size before cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository( > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/estebanlm/EclipsePack/main/) : 324017564 > Image size after cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository( > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/estebanlm/EclipsePack/main/) : 324137232 > Image size before cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository( > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/DripfeedIt/main/) : 324137232 > Image size after cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository( > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/DripfeedIt/main/) : 324195720 > Image size before cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository( > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/HOWebStack/main/) : 324195720 > Image size after cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository( > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/HOWebStack/main/) : 324255300 > Image size before cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository( > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/HOExperiments/main/) : 324255300 > Image size after cleaning a MCSmalltalkhubRepository( > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/philippeback/HOExperiments/main/) : 324314868 > > Definitely not going down... > > Phil > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> OK, this was was my experiment.... >> >> Image fresh with all my app and dependencies loades: 30MB >> >> After using it for some days/weeks: 160MB. >> >> SpaceTally new printSpaceAnalysis showed: >> >> Class code space # instances >> inst space percent inst average size >> ByteString 2785 413144 >> 116244078 69.90 281.36 >> Array 3712 181772 >> 8466668 5.10 46.58 >> ByteArray 8574 1319 >> 8186802 4.90 6206.82 >> Bitmap 3653 303 >> 6656340 4.00 21968.12 >> CompiledMethod 22467 90554 >> 5685374 3.40 62.78 >> >> >> After executing ImageCleaner cleanUpForRelease: 36MB >> >> Then...I searched which part of #cleanUpForRelease: was making the >> difference, and it was: >> >> Smalltalk cleanUp: true except: #() confirming: false. >> >> So now it was time to know WHICH class did the diference, so I modified >> #cleanUp: aggressive except: exclusions confirming: aBool >> >> in these lines: >> >> "Run the cleanup code" >> classes >> do:[:aClass| >> Transcript show: 'Image size before cleaning ', aClass name, ' : ', >> Smalltalk imagePath asFileReference size asString. >> aClass cleanUp: aggressive. >> 3 timesRepeat: [Smalltalk garbageCollect]. >> Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false. >> Transcript show: 'Image size after cleaning ', aClass name, ' : ', >> Smalltalk imagePath asFileReference size asString. >> ] >> displayingProgress: [:aClass| 'Cleaning up in ', aClass name]. >> I then opened a Transcript, and evaluated >> >> Smalltalk cleanUp: true except: #() confirming: false. >> >> I went to prepare Mate, and when I come back, the result was, of course: >> >> "Image size after cleaning MCFileBasedRepository : 39744008" >> >> That clean up ends up doing: >> >> flushAllCaches >> self allSubInstancesDo: [:ea | ea flushCache] >> So it sends #flushCache to all instances of MCHttpRepository and >> MCFileBasedRepository. >> >> Now what I wanted to see if it there was a particular repo that could >> take most of the space (like package-cache). >> And indeed, it was...I modified #flushCaches to: >> >> flushAllCaches >> | file | >> file := 'repos.txt' asFileReference writeStream text. >> self allSubInstancesDo: [:each | >> file nextPutAll: 'Image size before cleaning ', each printString, ' : >> ', Smalltalk imagePath asFileReference size asString; cr. >> each flushCache. >> 3 timesRepeat: [Smalltalk garbageCollect]. >> Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false. >> file nextPutAll: 'Image size after cleaning ', each printString, ' : ', >> Smalltalk imagePath asFileReference size asString;cr. >> ]. >> file flush; close. >> And then I looked in the 'repos.txt' file. My package cache repo cleaned >> 60 MB. Glorp cleaned 35MB. Seaside30 cleaned 10MB. >> So...cleaning cache of just 3 repos frees approx 100MB. >> >> The question is....can we flush the cache safely? If they are called >> "cache", then I guess yes, we can. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck < >> marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Guys, I have images also with seaside, magritte, glorp, postgresV2, etc >>> and it is also around 200MB. >>> I will try to do some research today and let you know. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:49 PM, "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > the changes file contained passwords and I replaced the text. So >>>> offsets may be wrong due to that. >>>> > >>>> Yes, the first thing I wanted to do is to recompile everything. Does >>>> not work. >>>> >>>> > Memorymonitor is not doing fanct stuff. It just counts instances. >>>> > >>>> Yes, but maybe it holds on to these instances? >>>> >>>> Marcus >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Aug. 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] New PharoVM built

by Igor Stasenko

Guillermo, do you know why your changes breaking things so bad? On 1 August 2013 00:01, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > Same for me with the backspace. > > Caret impossible to type ( ^ ... needless to say, bad...) > > Umlauts and ~ not working either. > > Smalltalk vm version 'NBCoInterpreter > NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: > acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Jul 19 2013 > NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: > acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Jul 19 2013 > git://gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: > 746b609f0323a8db5de2f1aa36f3eed07e312dfe Date: 2013-07-19 13:54:47 +0200 By: > Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14619 > ' > > > erfeklfefeefeâ¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦ferf e > > The things with xes is what I get from copy/pasting the string. > > 'azeâ¦â¦â¦uiop' asByteArray #[0 0 0 97 0 0 0 122 0 0 0 101 0 0 35 38 0 0 35 38 > 0 0 35 38 0 0 0 117 0 0 0 105 0 0 0 111 0 0 0 112] > > > > Phil > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I'm seeing the same with latest 3.0. The problem starts occuring as of >> build 165. 164 is still ok. >> >> >> On 31.07.2013, at 18:31, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > On 31 July 2013 17:55, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 31.07.2013, at 17:44, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> works for me. In which platform are you testing? >> >> >> >> OS X 10.8.4, 64 bit, Pharo 1.3 >> > >> > can you try it in 3.0 image? >> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>> On Jul 31, 2013, at 5:32 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> There seems to be an issue relating to the keyboard. I can't type any >> >>>> umlauts (option + u) and the delete button produces a question mark. >> >>>> >> >>>> Max >> >>>> >> >>>> On 31.07.2013, at 16:59, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Will do. Thanks! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 31.07.2013, at 16:46, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Hi, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I builded new versions of the vm, integrating latest changes from >> >>>>>> Eliot. >> >>>>>> This integration should fix some issues, between them the annoying >> >>>>>> "SmallInteger" problem. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> You can find it here: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> wget -O- get.pharo.org/20+vmLatest >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> or directly here: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo/ >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> (choose the one that fits the best for you, always the "latest") >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> can you download and check? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> thanks, >> >>>>>> Esteban >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Best regards, >> > Igor Stasenko. >> > >> >> > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Aug. 1, 2013