August 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Recent VM for Pharo 2 on Ubuntu 8.04

by Esteban Lorenzano

On Aug 28, 2013, at 2:19 PM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz> wrote: > On 28/08/13 12:54, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> for older systems, you are by your own. Is like that, yes. >> >> We cannot maintain all VM for all possible configurations. Nobody can do that, not even canonical, less us. Ubuntu 8.04 is just too old. >> >> Even JVM is not supported on Ubuntu 8.04: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/config-417990.html >> (latest is 10.04... which we support, or intent to at least) >> Also... we are not oracle, we have more limited resources. >> >> So , is not a workaround. Is the only reasonable solution: every software provider in earth supports a limited amount of system configurations, usually from some years ago, we provide at least the sources, instructions and support in the form of help/answering questions. >> > > This is not the only instance of the problem. > If I'm not much mistaken, same problem has been recently reported for Debian 7 > (Laszlo Zsolt KIss, 08/08/13 10:43). As Andres pointed out (08/08/13 14:40), it's libc is 17 months old. The proposed "solution" was the same - recompile on target system. in that moment answer was: compile it yourself until we provide a working version (which we now provide). Ubuntu 8 is another problem :( but do not get me wrong... is not that I do not would want to help... is just that I need to be realistic about what I can and what I don't :( > > To make me clear, I have no problem if you say "Sorry, we don't support > anything older than 12 months. Or 3 years. Or ...". I just don't think > that asking people to recompile whenever there is glibc dependency problem is "real solution". > > I'm very sorry for starting this pointless discussion. > >> >>> >>>> we can offer support (but should be pretty straight forward, specially in linux systems). >>>> >>>> I disagree with the solution proposed in (2), the cost of maintaining such approach would be exponential. >>> >>> No, not really. There aren't many of those (at least, weren't in my case) and I found out that sometimes I could do better (faster) job :-) >> >> you are invited to provide your working version, it would be cool for everybody :) >> > > Unfortunately, I've done it for a different VM :-) > > > Best, Jan >

Aug. 28, 2013

Notes for the August iteration

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys we got a new meeting and here are the notes Stef

Aug. 28, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Recent VM for Pharo 2 on Ubuntu 8.04

by Norbert Hartl

Am 28.08.2013 um 14:19 schrieb Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz>: > On 28/08/13 12:54, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> for older systems, you are by your own. Is like that, yes. >> >> We cannot maintain all VM for all possible configurations. Nobody can do that, not even canonical, less us. Ubuntu 8.04 is just too old. >> >> Even JVM is not supported on Ubuntu 8.04: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/config-417990.html >> (latest is 10.04... which we support, or intent to at least) >> Also... we are not oracle, we have more limited resources. >> >> So , is not a workaround. Is the only reasonable solution: every software provider in earth supports a limited amount of system configurations, usually from some years ago, we provide at least the sources, instructions and support in the form of help/answering questions. >> > > This is not the only instance of the problem. > If I'm not much mistaken, same problem has been recently reported for Debian 7 > (Laszlo Zsolt KIss, 08/08/13 10:43). As Andres pointed out (08/08/13 14:40), it's libc is 17 months old. The proposed "solution" was the same - recompile on target system. > > To make me clear, I have no problem if you say "Sorry, we don't support > anything older than 12 months. Or 3 years. Or ...". I just don't think > that asking people to recompile whenever there is glibc dependency problem is "real solution". > > I'm very sorry for starting this pointless discussion. > Indeed, I don't even understand what is your point. You are arguing that offering binaries for download is pointless if it does not support a wide range of systems. So is there even a way to compile a single binary for at least every version of a linux distro over the last couple of ears? I so then name it and there are guys who will be lucky incorporating your strategy. Arguing against the need of compilation is somewhat I cannot understand either. Of course every binary has to be compiled for every different system. The part that does make it work is the distro as a dependency tree of packages and versions. So Damien created this nice launchpad ppa archive that enables compiling the vm for a lot of ubuntus up to 10.04 which is over 3 years old. For everything else you are in bad luck. This community cannot deliver everything someone things is needed to be a mature system. We tried already to add the vm to the debian channels but it wasn't possible. And even then it would only be for debian. So to solve this particular problem you could go to [1], open a project for the pharo-vm and maintain easily the builds for a wide variety of linux systems. Problem solved, everyone is thankful. Complaining doesn't solve anything. Norbert [1] https://build.opensuse.org/ >> >>> >>>> we can offer support (but should be pretty straight forward, specially in linux systems). >>>> >>>> I disagree with the solution proposed in (2), the cost of maintaining such approach would be exponential. >>> >>> No, not really. There aren't many of those (at least, weren't in my case) and I found out that sometimes I could do better (faster) job :-) >> >> you are invited to provide your working version, it would be cool for everybody :) >> > > Unfortunately, I've done it for a different VM :-) > > > Best, Jan >

Aug. 28, 2013

[regression reporter]regression occurred

by no-reply＠ci.inria.fr

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-3.0-Update-Step-2-Validation/label=win/… 12 regressions found. CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testBlockNumbering CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testBlockNumberingForInjectInto CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testSourceRangeAccessForClosureBytecodeInjectInto CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testSourceRangeAccessForClosureLongFormBytecodeInjectInto CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testSourceRangeAccessForInjectInto CompilerTests.CompilerEvaluationTest.testEvaluationOfSelfSend CompilerTests.MethodHighlightingTests.testMethodHighlighting KernelTests.Methods.MethodContextTest.testSetUp NECompletion.Tests.NECInstVarTypeGuesserTest.testMessageSend NECompletion.Tests.NECInstVarTypeGuesserTest.testTypeSuggestingParameter Refactoring.Tests.Core.RBPushDownInstanceVariableTest.testPushDownInstanceVariable Refactoring.Tests.Core.RBPushDownInstanceVariableTest.testModelRemoveUnusedVariable

Aug. 28, 2013

[regression reporter]regression occurred

by no-reply＠ci.inria.fr

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-3.0-Update-Step-2-Validation/label=mac/… 12 regressions found. CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testBlockNumbering CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testBlockNumberingForInjectInto CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testSourceRangeAccessForClosureBytecodeInjectInto CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testSourceRangeAccessForClosureLongFormBytecodeInjectInto CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testSourceRangeAccessForInjectInto CompilerTests.CompilerEvaluationTest.testEvaluationOfSelfSend CompilerTests.MethodHighlightingTests.testMethodHighlighting KernelTests.Methods.MethodContextTest.testSetUp NECompletion.Tests.NECInstVarTypeGuesserTest.testMessageSend NECompletion.Tests.NECInstVarTypeGuesserTest.testTypeSuggestingParameter Refactoring.Tests.Core.RBPushDownInstanceVariableTest.testPushDownInstanceVariable Refactoring.Tests.Core.RBPushDownInstanceVariableTest.testModelRemoveUnusedVariable

Aug. 28, 2013

[regression reporter]regression occurred

by no-reply＠ci.inria.fr

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-3.0-Update-Step-2-Validation/label=linu… 12 regressions found. CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testBlockNumbering CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testBlockNumberingForInjectInto CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testSourceRangeAccessForClosureBytecodeInjectInto CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testSourceRangeAccessForClosureLongFormBytecodeInjectInto CompilerTests.ClosureCompilerTest.testSourceRangeAccessForInjectInto CompilerTests.CompilerEvaluationTest.testEvaluationOfSelfSend CompilerTests.MethodHighlightingTests.testMethodHighlighting KernelTests.Methods.MethodContextTest.testSetUp NECompletion.Tests.NECInstVarTypeGuesserTest.testMessageSend NECompletion.Tests.NECInstVarTypeGuesserTest.testTypeSuggestingParameter Refactoring.Tests.Core.RBPushDownInstanceVariableTest.testPushDownInstanceVariable Refactoring.Tests.Core.RBPushDownInstanceVariableTest.testModelRemoveUnusedVariable

Aug. 28, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Recent VM for Pharo 2 on Ubuntu 8.04

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 28 Aug 2013, at 14:03, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > There is another option (or call it workaround, if you like): > Just find a years old VM which works on your years old platform and be happy.. > (but don't expect , of course, that latest Pharo image will be compatible with it) Hmm, that is not really true: recent images have certain requirements (native boost, file/time primitives, â¦) - catch 22 > On 28 August 2013 13:29, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz> wrote: > On 28/08/13 11:58, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > well... real solution is to compile your own VM. > > Really? Then why do you at all offer VMs to download if people are > requested to compile at their own? :-) What would you say if you would > have to compile JVM on every system you use just because the pre-built > binaries are compiled against most recent libs? This maybe works in > academia but not in real world. Sorry, I don't take it. > That's not 'a real solution', this is merely a workaround. > > > > we can offer support (but should be pretty straight forward, specially in linux systems). > > I disagree with the solution proposed in (2), the cost of maintaining such approach would be exponential. > > No, not really. There aren't many of those (at least, weren't in my case) and I found out that sometimes I could do better (faster) job :-) > > Alternatively, you can just compile on old-enough system and hope that it will work. > > If you have another solution to this particular problem, please > share. I would love to know it! > > Anyway, that's what I did and what helped in my case. That's all I'd > like to say. > > > Best, Jan > > > > Esteban > > On Aug 28, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz> wrote: > > Hi, > > we had similar problems. After a bit of a research, I concluded that > there are basically two options for this sort of GLIBC a problem: > > 1) Workaround: recompile the VM on the target system, i.e., on > Ubuntu 8.04 > > 2) Solution: find symbols that introduces that dependency and then > simply not use them in the VM code. This means that you may have > to provide your own implementation of certain C functions > (memset, stat, things like that) > > To do so, nm and objdump is your friend. > > If I were you, I would go for a workaround. > > Best, Jan > > > On 28/08/13 11:25, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > Hi, > > I asked this question before > > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-Latest-vm-on-Ubuntu-8-04-4-LTS-tt4689467.ht… > > and yes I know that Ubuntu 8.04 is old, but I am really stuck. > > I need to deploy a Pharo #20619 image and I need a VM that works on Ubuntu 8.04 _and_ that is not 'too old' (like Eliot's most recent CogVM where I am getting lots of NB errors as well). > > The problem seems to be the dependency on the glibc 2.11. > > Has anyone successfully solved this issue ? > > Thx, > > Sven > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko.

Aug. 28, 2013

[update 3.0] #30353

by Marcus Denker

Aug. 28, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Recent VM for Pharo 2 on Ubuntu 8.04

by Jan Vrany

On 28/08/13 12:54, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > for older systems, you are by your own. Is like that, yes. > > We cannot maintain all VM for all possible configurations. Nobody can do that, not even canonical, less us. Ubuntu 8.04 is just too old. > > Even JVM is not supported on Ubuntu 8.04: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/config-417990.html > (latest is 10.04... which we support, or intent to at least) > Also... we are not oracle, we have more limited resources. > > So , is not a workaround. Is the only reasonable solution: every software provider in earth supports a limited amount of system configurations, usually from some years ago, we provide at least the sources, instructions and support in the form of help/answering questions. > This is not the only instance of the problem. If I'm not much mistaken, same problem has been recently reported for Debian 7 (Laszlo Zsolt KIss, 08/08/13 10:43). As Andres pointed out (08/08/13 14:40), it's libc is 17 months old. The proposed "solution" was the same - recompile on target system. To make me clear, I have no problem if you say "Sorry, we don't support anything older than 12 months. Or 3 years. Or ...". I just don't think that asking people to recompile whenever there is glibc dependency problem is "real solution". I'm very sorry for starting this pointless discussion. > >> >>> we can offer support (but should be pretty straight forward, specially in linux systems). >>> >>> I disagree with the solution proposed in (2), the cost of maintaining such approach would be exponential. >> >> No, not really. There aren't many of those (at least, weren't in my case) and I found out that sometimes I could do better (faster) job :-) > > you are invited to provide your working version, it would be cool for everybody :) > Unfortunately, I've done it for a different VM :-) Best, Jan

Aug. 28, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Recent VM for Pharo 2 on Ubuntu 8.04

by Igor Stasenko

There is another option (or call it workaround, if you like): Just find a years old VM which works on your years old platform and be happy.. (but don't expect , of course, that latest Pharo image will be compatible with it) On 28 August 2013 13:29, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz> wrote: > On 28/08/13 11:58, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > >> well... real solution is to compile your own VM. >> > > Really? Then why do you at all offer VMs to download if people are > requested to compile at their own? :-) What would you say if you would > have to compile JVM on every system you use just because the pre-built > binaries are compiled against most recent libs? This maybe works in > academia but not in real world. Sorry, I don't take it. > That's not 'a real solution', this is merely a workaround. > > > > we can offer support (but should be pretty straight forward, specially in >> linux systems). >> >> I disagree with the solution proposed in (2), the cost of maintaining >> such approach would be exponential. >> > > No, not really. There aren't many of those (at least, weren't in my case) > and I found out that sometimes I could do better (faster) job :-) > > Alternatively, you can just compile on old-enough system and hope that it > will work. > > If you have another solution to this particular problem, please > share. I would love to know it! > > Anyway, that's what I did and what helped in my case. That's all I'd > like to say. > > > Best, Jan > > > >> Esteban >> >> On Aug 28, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz> wrote: >> >> Hi, >>> >>> we had similar problems. After a bit of a research, I concluded that >>> there are basically two options for this sort of GLIBC a problem: >>> >>> 1) Workaround: recompile the VM on the target system, i.e., on >>> Ubuntu 8.04 >>> >>> 2) Solution: find symbols that introduces that dependency and then >>> simply not use them in the VM code. This means that you may have >>> to provide your own implementation of certain C functions >>> (memset, stat, things like that) >>> >>> To do so, nm and objdump is your friend. >>> >>> If I were you, I would go for a workaround. >>> >>> Best, Jan >>> >>> >>> On 28/08/13 11:25, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I asked this question before >>>> >>>> http://forum.world.st/Pharo-**dev-Latest-vm-on-Ubuntu-8-04-** >>>> 4-LTS-tt4689467.html<http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-Latest-vm-on-Ubuntu-8-04-4-LTS-tt4689467.ht…> >>>> >>>> and yes I know that Ubuntu 8.04 is old, but I am really stuck. >>>> >>>> I need to deploy a Pharo #20619 image and I need a VM that works on >>>> Ubuntu 8.04 _and_ that is not 'too old' (like Eliot's most recent CogVM >>>> where I am getting lots of NB errors as well). >>>> >>>> The problem seems to be the dependency on the glibc 2.11. >>>> >>>> Has anyone successfully solved this issue ? >>>> >>>> Thx, >>>> >>>> Sven >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Aug. 28, 2013