July 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] #30235 is bogus

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 01 Jul 2013, at 10:43, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > The question is, can we do more update on top? Only if the problem can be fixed really quickly, like today, I would say. > There are lots of small things ready: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/filters/35/Integration > > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 9:45 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 28 Jun 2013, at 19:54, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > Maybe we should revert the update. Having the 3.0 download be not usable for multiple days > > is not good. > > > > Marcus > > > > On Jun 28, 2013, at 7:29 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > >> Hi guys > >> > >> please do not use the 30235 since we have to find a way to recreate the correct UI thread with > >> the worldState and others. I'm not sure that I will have the time to work on it this week-end > >> since I need to have a pair programmer (igor) to check the thread and other. > >> > >> Stef > > I played a bit with it and the image basically works. > All ReleaseTests pass ;-) > But there is an issue with redrawing when the image comes up, but is seems to go away with a 'Restore display'. > > And scrolling in lists while hovering works again ! > > Sven > > > > -- > -- > Marcus Denker -- denker(a)acm.org > http://www.marcusdenker.de

July 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] #30235 is bogus

by Marcus Denker

The question is, can we do more update on top? There are lots of small things ready: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/filters/35/Integration On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 9:45 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 28 Jun 2013, at 19:54, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > Maybe we should revert the update. Having the 3.0 download be not usable > for multiple days > > is not good. > > > > Marcus > > > > On Jun 28, 2013, at 7:29 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > > > >> Hi guys > >> > >> please do not use the 30235 since we have to find a way to recreate the > correct UI thread with > >> the worldState and others. I'm not sure that I will have the time to > work on it this week-end > >> since I need to have a pair programmer (igor) to check the thread and > other. > >> > >> Stef > > I played a bit with it and the image basically works. > All ReleaseTests pass ;-) > But there is an issue with redrawing when the image comes up, but is seems > to go away with a 'Restore display'. > > And scrolling in lists while hovering works again ! > > Sven > -- -- Marcus Denker -- denker(a)acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de

July 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] WhatsUp from: 2013-07-01 until: 2013-07-14

by Nicolas Petton

On Jul 1, 2013, at 7:00 AM, seaside(a)rmod.lille.inria.fr wrote: > Hi! We're sending this automatic email twice a month, to give the community an opportunity to easily know what's happening and to coordinate efforts. Just answer informally, and feel free to spawn discussions thereafter! > > ### Here's what I've been up to since the last WhatsUp: > > - $HEROIC_ACHIEVEMENTS_OR_DISMAL_FAILURES_OR_SIMPLE_BORING_NECESSARY_TASKS - SmalltalkHub bug fixing, features and upgrade - Some work on a new look and feel (nothing ready to be shown yet) > ### What's next, until 2013-07-14 (*): > > - $NEXT_STEPS_TOWARDS_WORLD_DOMINATION - More SmalltalkHub > > (*) we'll be expecting results by then ;) Yeah, we'll see ;) Nico

July 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] SS3 the canary site

by Nicolas Petton

Thanks Tobias for the update! This version looks good, and I think moving to bootstrap was a good move :) About the competition, I don't mind it. About working on SmalltalkHub with me, I sure would be glad, but I also completely understand your point. One thing we could do though is maybe share experience (feel free to email me) and discuss about both platforms? It can always be positive. A note about stef's answer. I work with him everyday, and I can say that he for sure didn't mean to insult you. His emails can sometimes be taken the wrong way. It happened to me more than once (then I usually arrived at work and saw a friendly smile on his face). But hey, stef, sometimes you may want to read twice your emails before sending them (and then wait a day or two, read it again, and make sure you're still ok with it ;-) Cheers, Nico On Jun 30, 2013, at 2:18 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> Thanks tobias. >>> >>> To me your version of SS3 looks even more Squeak centric and this is ok but my plate is full >>> and I'm sorry but I focus on Pharo because we must deliver and continue. >> >> That was uncalled for. StÃ©phane Ducasse, what is it you want to tell me? >> Whatever emotion or reaction you wanted to transport, you effected >> borderline insult and accusation. > > seriously? This was not my intention. > >> First, I just opened a tool I am maintaining for public participation. >> Recall: âFor me to test new features of SqueakSource3 â¦â. >> What, please tell me, what makes this incarnation of SS3 âeven more Squeak centricâ? >> That it is run on GemStone? That I developed it in the SeasideOneClick image >> (which happens to be a Pharo one)? Mon dieu, seulement le mot Â«SqueakÂ«, la partie >> du mot Â«SqueakSourceÂ». Do you want to hold me accountable for not changing a >> long standing product name? > > I think that you are overreacting. > I'm just saying that instead of maintaining and developing two forges having a good one would be better. > >> Second, what has the delivery and continuation of Pharo to do with my service of >> offering a canary SS3 instance? Do you care to elaborate? > > I simply do not have the time to maintain multiple resources of documents (you know Chapter like Gofer), gofer apiâ¦. > Just yesterday we updated the SS3 part to use the new URL. > >>> Now don't you think that joining effort on SmalltalkHub (did you see the name is not PharoHub) >>> would make more sense? >> >> Are we playing on names now? There are instances of SqueakSource out there that >> are not primarily used for Squeak. Just the name does not make anything fixed >> to that, thank you. >> But content-wise, what is it that should attract me more to SH than what attracts >> me currently to SS3? > > - Speed. > - Team management > - Momentum > > >> Look: >> 1. I happen to have started SS3 in 2008/2009 to support the SqueakSource >> instance that that is running at my University. That is the only reason. > > I can understand it > >> 2. I have tried to improve and integrate many different features present >> in different SqueakSources and in that course, SqueakSource3 emerged >> about around four (4) years ago. And I know that you were aware >> of it. > > sure I do not deny it. Now my point is that Nicolas invested a lot of time in building a new scalable > infrastructure. If you want to continue maintaining SS3 why not? this is your time and energy. > I'm just saying that I would like to avoid to > > Tobias my goal is not to be against Squeak. I gave to Squeak a lot more than any average squeaker. > MY GOAL IS TO OFFER AN ECONOMICAL COMPETITIVE ECOSYSTEM TO PEOPLE WILLING TO > INVEST INTO SOFTWARE IN SMALLTALK and this in the context of JS, Lua, Python, Rails. > > >> 3. I can only invest my leisure time into SqueakSource, and I feel committed >> to _NOT_ abandon existing infrastructure; at least three websites out >> there run SqueakSource, if not more. I would feel unreasonable to just >> drop them. > > Ok but you could join SmalltalkHub too. > We gave up on Squeaksource code. Look on SS3 we cannot even browse project lists. > So this is why we decided to push and SmalltalkHub. Nicolas is using some of his time to improve it > because we ask him. > >> 4. How, up until now, should I have known that joint effort is welcomed or >> even possible? > > Nicolas always announced that SmalltalkHub is open-source and that people can help and join. > May be you did not see it. But it was always like that. > >> IIRC, at the 2010 ESUG in Barcelona, you publicly asked >> about what to do with the unstable SqueakSource. > > Probably I'm always worried about providing good infrastructure > >> I don't know whether I talked directly to you or Marcus or whomever, >> but I offered intensive collaboration. > > Probably me. But you know I have multiple lives and doing far too many things and it was 3 years ago. > You know we are doing many things and ESUG saw that SS was in danger so we (THE BOARD) decided > that it was good to push a new service to the community. > > >> I never hear back of y'all. >> Some time later, SmalltalkHub was started. >> Have you ever felt being stamped on? >> Have you ever felt slapped in the face? >> I had, then. > > Ok it was not our intention to hurt you or by pass you. > may be sending a little mail would have solved that feeling. > We were just looking at a solution because this is 4 years that Squeaksource is running on a slow machine > and was backup from time to time. > >>> Also because the stack behind is sexy and can be reused/improved for business. >> >> Yes I know. While I am not 100% sure, what the exact stack is, I know >> that Amber, Iliad, and GemStone are cool, I like them really. >> But I also think that the Seaside-Magritte-GemStone-Nginx stack >> is also cool. > > Amber, Seaside, Voyage, Mongo > > >>> And you guess what? I want and push daily business in Pharo. >> >> Please do, you have my full support. However, what does that >> have to do with either SqueakSource3 or SmalltalkHub? > > It has to do with having one good infrastructure and I was thinking ok if tobias would help in SmalltalkHub > then SmalltalkHub would be better (I'm not talking about the website - but the software stack). > >> The tools I have built or collaborated with run in Pharo, so what is the deal? > > Split of energy. If we have two guys working on the same forge then this is better than two guys working on two > different forges. > >>> I want smart guys like you, camillo, guilermo, ben, nicolas, igor, esteban and many more to >>> be able to decide if they want to get a cool job with Pharo. >> >> We are all able to decide whether we want to have a cool job with Pharo. > > :) > Only if there are jobs! > > >> But please don't judge me that my image of Smalltalk is broader than just >> Pharo. > > You think that mine is narrow minded :). > > >> A bientÃ´t, >> -Tobias >> >> PS: On style. >> a) Is a rant a proper reaction to an announcement? > > It was not a rant. > >> Isn't that like criticizing alpha software using a bug list? >> b) The first words of a text set its impression with the reader. >> The first words of the email accused me of Squeak-centricsim, >> as if it actually was something to be accused of. > > You see I'm not in the squeak mailing-list so I do not see how I could give feedback as a user of SqueakSource3* > without being in the squeakmaili > >> c) The last words of a text stay in mind. >> The last words of the email are selective in people and >> Smalltalk dialect. > > Sure you know more than me. > you know of course that the last engineer that quitted my team is a VW engineer. > You also know that I suggested to some students doing pharo to apply to the recent VW job offers. > You know so much about me that you can judge as being so narrow minded. > >> They make you _sound_ like you don't want not as smart guys on >> Pharo and, more importantly, you don't want people on any other >> Smalltalk than Pharo. > > Build a sexy one (but for real) and I will use it instead of burning my energy building one. > >> This is unbecoming for a president of >> an organization that represents european users of >> _all_ Smalltalk dialects. Do you? > > Tobias when you will have 2% of what I did for our community, I will take your insults seriously. > Now I just think that you are going off-road. > > > > -- Nicolas Petton http://www.nicolas-petton.fr

July 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] SmalltalkHub upgrade!

by Nicolas Petton

Hi! Helios will be shipped with the next release of Amber. The stepping debugger won't make it into the release though, it's not ready yet. Nico On Jun 28, 2013, at 6:10 PM, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > By the way hows Helios and the new amber debugger going ? -- Nicolas Petton http://www.nicolas-petton.fr

July 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] SmalltalkHub upgrade!

by Nicolas Petton

Thanks Sven. And yes, a code browser is overdue (and planned). Nico On Jun 30, 2013, at 4:01 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Hi Nicolas, > > Great work. Thanks for taking care. > Like I said before: it is a great responsibility that you are carrying, respect ! > > One day you have to write a blog post giving us all some insight in the production details, with some nice numbers and graphs. > > Sven > > PS: Is a source code browsing feature something that we can expect someday ? It is really something that I miss: I often want to have a quick look at some code, before defining the repository and/or loading it. > > On 28 Jun 2013, at 17:23, Nicolas Petton <petton.nicolas(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> SmalltalkHub upgrade! >> >> Hi, I'm pleased to announce a new SmalltalkHub upgrade. >> This upgrade includes quite some bug fixes and speed improvements. >> >> - new buttons to delete mcz files and packages >> - deleting projects will delete mcz files >> - team can now also be deleted >> - the MCZ cache is now correctly flushed when required >> - Private projects are now hidden from all public timelines >> - Speed improvements for some Mongo requests >> >> Issue fixes: >> >> - issue 16: Cannot delete project >> - Issue 1: Monticello Registration snippet should not supply user name >> - Issue 5: Some message should be shown when you try do delete the only member of a Team >> - Issue 6: I just got to see an Amber debugger while trying to log out >> - Issue 25: Remove packages does not work >> - Issue 23: Encoding problem >> >> You can follow the bug tracker of SmalltalkHub and report issues there: https://code.google.com/p/smalltalk-hub/issues >> >> Cheers, >> Nico > > -- Nicolas Petton http://www.nicolas-petton.fr

July 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] potential bug with PackaegSet

by Marcus Denker

On Jun 30, 2013, at 2:46 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > I wonder if GRPharoPlatform>>compile: aString into: aClass classified: aSymbol is not just duplicating logic and as such > brings subtle bugs. > > Now the addAllFilesIn: is broken > > Implementing it as > > > compile: aString into: aClass classified: aSymbol > > [aClass compile: aString classified: aSymbol] on: Error do: [:ex | GRError signal: 'syntax error' ] > > works. I sent the information to the seaside mailing-list. > May be there are some other side effects but to me duplicating core logic outside of the core can be dangerous. It makes cleaning up the system very difficultâ¦ e.g. if we are supposed to introduce Opal while being backward compatible so that this methods still works, we can just stop now and do something else. Marcus

July 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Better Interruption in 2.0

by Marcus Denker

On Jun 30, 2013, at 10:15 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Is this integrated in 2.0 already? > No: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10569 Slice needs to be checked. > Doru > > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > Hi Stephan, > > I've put a slice to integrate that and the overall UserInterrupt code to get it to work. Can you try it? > > It's SLICE-Issue-10569-Backport-20-Better-Interrruption-ThierryGoubier.1 in http://ss3.gemtalksystems.com/ss/PharoInbox/ > > Thierry > > Le 27/06/2013 00:40, Stephan Eggermont a Ã©crit : > > Using Henry's > > processToInterrupt > "Look for best candidate to interrupt: > - any scheduled non-finalization process of lower priority > - the weak-finalization process, if scheduled > - the UI process > Never interrupt the idle process, since killing it is fatal" > > | fallback | > > fallback := UIManager default uiProcess. > Processor > scanSchedule: [:p | > "suspendedContext sender == nil usually means that process is only scheduled but had no chance to run" > ((p ~~ Processor backgroundProcess) and: [ p suspendedContext sender notNil]) ifTrue: [ > p ~~ WeakArray runningFinalizationProcess > ifTrue: [^p] > ifFalse: [fallback := p]] ] > startingAt: Processor activePriority. > ^fallback > > in todays Moose 4.8 (on Pharo 20608) on the april 10 VM > allows for better interruption, up to the point where the system runs out of memory > without a lowspace warning after I assume trying to collect garbage for 20 minutes or so. > > Stephan > > > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow"

July 1, 2013

WhatsUp from: 2013-07-01 until: 2013-07-14

by seaside＠rmod.lille.inria.fr

Hi! We're sending this automatic email twice a month, to give the community an opportunity to easily know what's happening and to coordinate efforts. Just answer informally, and feel free to spawn discussions thereafter! ### Here's what I've been up to since the last WhatsUp: - $HEROIC_ACHIEVEMENTS_OR_DISMAL_FAILURES_OR_SIMPLE_BORING_NECESSARY_TASKS ### What's next, until 2013-07-14 (*): - $NEXT_STEPS_TOWARDS_WORLD_DOMINATION (*) we'll be expecting results by then ;)

July 1, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [update 3.0] #30230

by Sean P. DeNigris

Marcus Denker-4 wrote > 11060 Introduce WorldMorph as subclass of PasteUpMorph > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11060 Cool!!! I wonder why it was not done like that to begin with... ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-update-3-0-30230-tp4696015p4696495.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

July 1, 2013