June 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Necessity of TDD with Smalltalk

by askoh

Dennis: You seem to see more in TDD than most people. Can you write a small tutorial that illustrates what you think Smalltalkers need to see in TDD? I do think Smalltalk is missing something in it evolution. Thanks, Aik-Siong Koh -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-Necessity-of-TDD-with-Smalltalk-tp4691867p4… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Screencast]: Pharo Smalltalk's New TxText: The Power of Clean Code

by Henrik Johansen

On Jun 6, 2013, at 3:45 PM, plantec wrote: > > On 6 juin 2013, at 15:30, "Sean P. DeNigris" <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > >> plantec wrote >>> something like that ? :) >> >> Now you're just showing off ;) > sorry, I don't understand, what do you mean ? > Cheers > Alain Even Smalltalkers are impressed once in a while that the distance from idea to implementation can be less than an hour :) Cheers, Henry

June 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Necessity of TDD with Smalltalk

by Frank Shearar

On 6 June 2013 14:44, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> wrote: > TDD is not about tests (as a bug-finding/debugger tool) at all. And the > anti-regression feature of TDD is just the secondary one. > > First of all, TDD is about structuring thinking/creation process. And "test" > here is a tool that allows and makes developer to formalize requirements and > to translate them to the language they will be implemented in. This starts > and really drives coding. Thus, a programmer that really masters TDD (really > means an ability to apply "pure" TDD for all programming activities: both > top-down and bottom-up design activities) is expected to produce much better > architecture/design/code. > > â¦ So, I don't think TDD is somehow obsolete by Smalltalk. Vice versa, TDD > should be really efficient here. And it's a great pity TDD is not actually > popular in Smalltalk society. One of the dire consequences is that modern > Smalltalk environments are not "TDD-oriented" and don't advantage from good > TDD methodology. Why do you think Smalltalk environments aren't "TDD oriented"? What would an IDE need to be TDD oriented? (I can think of something like Ruby's guard, which runs tests every time you save a file.) frank

June 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Screencast]: Pharo Smalltalk's New TxText: The Power of Clean Code

by plantec

On 6 juin 2013, at 15:30, "Sean P. DeNigris" <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > plantec wrote >> something like that ? :) > > Now you're just showing off ;) sorry, I don't understand, what do you mean ? Cheers Alain > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Screencast-Pharo-Smalltalk-s-New-TxText-The-Power-of-… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

June 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Necessity of TDD with Smalltalk

by Dennis Schetinin

TDD is not about tests (as a bug-finding/debugger tool) at all. And the anti-regression feature of TDD is just the secondary one. First of all, TDD is about structuring thinking/creation process. And "test" here is a tool that allows and makes developer to formalize requirements and to translate them to the language they will be implemented in. This starts and really drives coding. Thus, a programmer that really masters TDD (really means an ability to apply "pure" TDD for all programming activities: both top-down and bottom-up design activities) is expected to produce much better architecture/design/code. â¦ So, I don't think TDD is somehow obsolete by Smalltalk. Vice versa, TDD should be really efficient here. And it's a great pity TDD is not actually popular in Smalltalk society. One of the dire consequences is that modern Smalltalk environments are not "TDD-oriented" and don't advantage from good TDD methodology. â¦ Yea, that's just one of my pet peeves :) -- Best regards, Dennis Schetinin 2013/6/6 kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > I dont think a debugger can ever replace TDD for two reason > > a) Tests are faster way to find bugs that don't want to be found ;) > > b) Tests are more than debugging tools > > (A) If you have already created a large suite of tests then all it takes is > to fire those tests and just wait for the result to come out. Much fastert > than going one by one bug. Also I dont know if the same applies for > smalltalk but when i was coding for python not all code was executed and so > I did not see all the bugs my code contains. So I had to test the app > myself > in many diffirent ways and I quickly found out that writing tests was way > faster in the long run. > > (B) tests also make sure that your code behaves the way you want to behave > and produces the result you want to produce. It may not be a bug per se, > just a weird behavior. They also set a design pattern for your code to > follow in the future. > > Generally speaking I use TDD for long code or code that is going to be > maintained in the long run and get larger and larger. I think in that > scenario TDD really excells. TDD is very popular in python, its part of the > main library cpython(unittesting.py) comes with and there is also a third > party library called "Nose" that even offer more features. > > I think TDD helps you keep your sanity in the long run especially with big > projects and complex code. > > Debuggers are more like microscopes while i see TDD more like Satelites on > orbit. ;) > > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-Necessity-of-TDD-with-Smalltalk-tp4691867p4… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

June 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Screencast]: Pharo Smalltalk's New TxText: The Power of Clean Code

by Denis Kudriashov

2013/6/6 plantec <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com> > something like that ? :) Great!

June 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Screencast]: Pharo Smalltalk's New TxText: The Power of Clean Code

by Sean P. DeNigris

plantec wrote > something like that ? :) Now you're just showing off ;) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Screencast-Pharo-Smalltalk-s-New-TxText-The-Power-of-… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Screencast]: Pharo Smalltalk's New TxText: The Power of Clean Code

by plantec

On 6 juin 2013, at 14:21, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2013/6/6 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > > >> We talk with Alain about Rubric and in near future we will have selection as > >> morph's. So we can tune selection border width, color, present it with > >> ellipse and etc. > > > umm? text selection? what ellipse if it can span multiple lines/pages of text? > > I think about way we select text with pen at paper. We just draw some ellipse. So text editor can show selection with same way. it is just my fantasy > something like that ? :) smalltalkCodeWithStabilo "self smalltalkCodeWithStabilo" | area seg code | area := RubEditingArea new beWrapped; width: 400; updateTextWith: (code := self someSmallSmalltalkCode). area addSegment: (seg := RubPlainSegmentMorph inTextArea: area from: 3 to: code size). seg color: (Color yellow). seg borderColor: (Color orange alpha: 0.5). seg beSmoothCurve. area openInWorld Alain

June 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Lowecase class names

by kilon

A pitty , I think python has the same limitations with whitespace. Its kinda weird because python forces indentation as part of the syntax ( a reason why some people hate python) and yet it finds it perfectly fine to do a 3-4 which to me is pretty much a very obvious readability problem (at least something my math teacher would have complained about ;) ). But none the less, I am ok with camel case , and I am certainly ok with how pharo forces naming conventions. I find documentation a lot bigger deal for a coder than how he names methods and classes. Also it should not be so hard to implement a parser (PettitParser ? ) for adding those features in , without changing pharo or smalltalk syntax , as a third party library. Afterall thats the purpose of OOP , to extend and not to modify code :) The one thing I was thinking for implementing for my project Ephestos, was a more english language version of smalltalk , where a name of a class can have even whitepaces inside it. I have to confess its a rather low priority idea for now, cause I am already over my head with opengl and nativeboost but it would be a fun area to explore. I was thinking replacing lisp parentheses in some way with graphical elements that dicate where the name starts and ends and where the parameters also start and end. A bit like Scratch but much more transparent without kicking out standard smalltalk syntax. For example ((3d cube morph ) (draw on screen ( x : 500 y: 400 ))) . where parentheses represent graphical elements (user wont type parentheses but rather use key shortcuts, maybe tabs ) in the text editor which could be made transparent so the code reads (and hovering the mouse on top of class and methods names could make visible the graphical elements again) 3d cube morph draw on screen x :500 y: 400 . With autocompletion to cut down typing and even autofill in the class name just by using the method name ( if same methods exist in other classes a drop down menu autocompletition style will allow him to choose the right class). The above of course will still be commited as smalltalk code 3dCubeMorph drawOnScreen x: 500 y:400 so it will be more like an illusion for the coder, for pharo will be regular smalltalk code. Of course that has the advantage of existing smalltalk code being displayed with this syntax , again with zero changes to source code commited. Its an idea I would like to try at some point, no promises when :D -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-Lowecase-class-names-tp4690963p4691944.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Screencast]: Pharo Smalltalk's New TxText: The Power of Clean Code

by Denis Kudriashov

2013/6/6 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > On 6 June 2013 11:14, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 2013/6/6 Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> > >> > >> https://vimeo.com/67752734 > > > > > > Cool. Did you publish code? > > > >> > >> > >> > >> Very short and simple video describing my experience while implementing > >> replacing a text morph's cursor with a block cursor to signify vim > normal > >> mode. Shows how I was able to accomplish something in a few minutes > which > >> seemed impossible with TextEditor and friends. > >> > >> Things are getting really exciting around here :) > > > > > > We talk with Alain about Rubric and in near future we will have > selection as > > morph's. So we can tune selection border width, color, present it with > > ellipse and etc. > > umm? text selection? what ellipse if it can span multiple lines/pages of > text? > I think about way we select text with pen at paper. We just draw some ellipse. So text editor can show selection with same way. it is just my fantasy > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- > >> Cheers, > >> Sean > >> -- > >> View this message in context: > >> > http://forum.world.st/Screencast-Pharo-Smalltalk-s-New-TxText-The-Power-of-… > >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > >> Nabble.com. > >> > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > >

June 6, 2013