May 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Norbert Hartl

Am 23.05.2013 um 19:23 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > On 23 May 2013, at 19:15, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > >> Am 23.05.2013 um 18:41 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >> >>> BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-) >> >> The LTS support expired two weeks ago. LTS does mostly include security fixes not kernel backports. So installing your 08.04 on a modern machine might not work. And installing the newest virtual machine inside 08.04. might not work either. You should stay with old stuff :) >> >> Norbert > > I feel old ;-) > > No seriously, it is really strange how these things evolve: one day you install a production machine and then you are happy that it keeps on running fine for months and months and then years and years, and then suddenly you no longer dare to upgrade or reboot it. Especially for systems that are required to run 24/7/365. > I know this feeling so well, too. I try not to run those things for too long. We virtualized most things in OS instances. So we can move to a new hardware every couple of years and keep all old OS instances as they are. They are just copied over. >From time to time I create a modern OS instance and slowly migrate stuff from the old into the new environment. If I feel confident I switch. I could leave the machines just running. But that striked me some times already in my life. In times were you are really busy and you have a lot of balls in the air the old hardware will break. And what do you do then? Even restoring a full backup on a new machine doesn't need to go smooth. It is real pain. So it is IMHO always better to upgrade steadily when you find time instead in panicking times. Norbert

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 23 May 2013, at 19:15, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > Am 23.05.2013 um 18:41 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > >> BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-) > > The LTS support expired two weeks ago. LTS does mostly include security fixes not kernel backports. So installing your 08.04 on a modern machine might not work. And installing the newest virtual machine inside 08.04. might not work either. You should stay with old stuff :) > > Norbert I feel old ;-) No seriously, it is really strange how these things evolve: one day you install a production machine and then you are happy that it keeps on running fine for months and months and then years and years, and then suddenly you no longer dare to upgrade or reboot it. Especially for systems that are required to run 24/7/365. Sven

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Messy Configurations

by Sean P. DeNigris

Dale K. Henrichs wrote > Once Pharo2.0 and Pharo3.0 becomes part of the standard Metacello build > lineup, I should be able to keep pace with you guys as you continue to > push the boundaries of Smalltalk. Three cheers for Dale!! Thank you :) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-Messy-Configurations-tp4689182p4689482.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Norbert Hartl

Am 23.05.2013 um 18:41 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-) The LTS support expired two weeks ago. LTS does mostly include security fixes not kernel backports. So installing your 08.04 on a modern machine might not work. And installing the newest virtual machine inside 08.04. might not work either. You should stay with old stuff :) Norbert

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 23 May 2013, at 18:41, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > It comes down to the question: what vm is really needed for 2.0 ? > If the answer is: you _need_ a pharo vm, then not supporting certain OS versions has possibly big repercussions. Well, I built the image on a newer machine with a pharo-vm, and deployed using an older CogVM that was still installed: $ ./bin/CogVM -version 3.9-7 #1 Wed Sep 26 20:32:26 CEST 2012 gcc 4.1.2 CoInterpreter VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.164 uuid: d77dee73-00f5-4d00-847b-00646b08329d Sep 26 2012 StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.164 uuid: d77dee73-00f5-4d00-847b-00646b08329d Sep 26 2012 https://git.gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: bfc9fe2c4abcd2972c8bd9eac1c77f9baaf23e8a Date: 2012-09-25 13:34:47 +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Linux pharo-build.lille.inria.fr 2.6.18-194.26.1.el5xen #1 SMP Tue Nov 9 14:13:46 EST 2010 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux plugin path: /home/t3/pharo2/bin/ [default: /home/t3/pharo2/bin/] And that seems to work fine. Thanks for the quick answers! Sven

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-05-23, at 18:41, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 23 May 2013, at 18:25, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 2013-05-23, at 18:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >>> Guys, >>> >>> I am trying to run the latest (as in curl -L get.pharo.org | bash) vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS and it tells me >> >> yes there we have a slight interference with VM and OS versions. The best way to install the VM is to use Damien's PPA: >> https://launchpad.net/~pharo/+archive/stable >> >> which properly deals with all the different combinations of versions. > > Can I do that safely on 8.04 ? Will it work ? > I would rather install locally, installing dependencies if needed. humm looks like there is no build for 8.04 out there. You can try, apt get will inform you what it install before ;) humm damn! >>> $ ldd ./pharo-vm/pharo >>> ./pharo-vm/pharo: /lib32/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by ./pharo-vm/pharo) >>> linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000) >>> libm.so.6 => /lib32/libm.so.6 (0xf7769000) >>> libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xf7765000) >>> libpthread.so.0 => /lib32/libpthread.so.0 (0xf774c000) >>> libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf75f8000) >>> /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf779c000) >>> >>> This machine was previously happy running all kinds of (older) VMs. >>> >>> Is there a way around this ? >>> >>> Is there a recent vm somewhere that does not require such a recent libc version (or whatever, I don't understand the error message, /lib32/libc.so.6 seems to be present, would that no be enough) ? >> >> As far as I remember we had also issues with a too old libc. And since the current LTS is 10.04 we decided to go with that. >> So for the default linux VM it is quite hard to satisfy all needs. > > OK, but what should I do then ? > It is no option to upgrade the machine.. > > BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-) > It comes down to the question: what vm is really needed for 2.0 ? > If the answer is: you _need_ a pharo vm, then not supporting certain OS versions has possibly big repercussions. I think the only reasonable approach is what Damien did. We cannot guess all combinations of libraries and libc's that are out there. Maybe you could try an older VM? Otherwise we could try to build an older linux VM on our CI infrastructure just for you :) No, seriously, we should see if we manage to distribute an older version somehow :/

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 23 May 2013, at 18:25, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 2013-05-23, at 18:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >> Guys, >> >> I am trying to run the latest (as in curl -L get.pharo.org | bash) vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS and it tells me > > yes there we have a slight interference with VM and OS versions. The best way to install the VM is to use Damien's PPA: > https://launchpad.net/~pharo/+archive/stable > > which properly deals with all the different combinations of versions. Can I do that safely on 8.04 ? Will it work ? I would rather install locally, installing dependencies if needed. >> $ ldd ./pharo-vm/pharo >> ./pharo-vm/pharo: /lib32/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by ./pharo-vm/pharo) >> linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000) >> libm.so.6 => /lib32/libm.so.6 (0xf7769000) >> libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xf7765000) >> libpthread.so.0 => /lib32/libpthread.so.0 (0xf774c000) >> libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf75f8000) >> /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf779c000) >> >> This machine was previously happy running all kinds of (older) VMs. >> >> Is there a way around this ? >> >> Is there a recent vm somewhere that does not require such a recent libc version (or whatever, I don't understand the error message, /lib32/libc.so.6 seems to be present, would that no be enough) ? > > As far as I remember we had also issues with a too old libc. And since the current LTS is 10.04 we decided to go with that. > So for the default linux VM it is quite hard to satisfy all needs. OK, but what should I do then ? It is no option to upgrade the machine.. BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-) It comes down to the question: what vm is really needed for 2.0 ? If the answer is: you _need_ a pharo vm, then not supporting certain OS versions has possibly big repercussions. Sven PS: I do understand that it is hard to support many versions.

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-05-23, at 18:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Guys, > > I am trying to run the latest (as in curl -L get.pharo.org | bash) vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS and it tells me yes there we have a slight interference with VM and OS versions. The best way to install the VM is to use Damien's PPA: https://launchpad.net/~pharo/+archive/stable which properly deals with all the different combinations of vrsions. > $ ldd ./pharo-vm/pharo > ./pharo-vm/pharo: /lib32/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by ./pharo-vm/pharo) > linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000) > libm.so.6 => /lib32/libm.so.6 (0xf7769000) > libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xf7765000) > libpthread.so.0 => /lib32/libpthread.so.0 (0xf774c000) > libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf75f8000) > /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf779c000) > > This machine was previously happy running all kinds of (older) VMs. > > Is there a way around this ? > > Is there a recent vm somewhere that does not require such a recent libc version (or whatever, I don't understand the error message, /lib32/libc.so.6 seems to be present, would that no be enough) ? As far as I remember we had also issues with a too old libc. And since the current LTS is 10.04 we decided to go with that. So for the default linux VM it is quite hard to satisfy all needs.

May 23, 2013

Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Guys, I am trying to run the latest (as in curl -L get.pharo.org | bash) vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS and it tells me $ ldd ./pharo-vm/pharo ./pharo-vm/pharo: /lib32/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by ./pharo-vm/pharo) linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000) libm.so.6 => /lib32/libm.so.6 (0xf7769000) libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xf7765000) libpthread.so.0 => /lib32/libpthread.so.0 (0xf774c000) libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf75f8000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf779c000) This machine was previously happy running all kinds of (older) VMs. Is there a way around this ? Is there a recent vm somewhere that does not require such a recent libc version (or whatever, I don't understand the error message, /lib32/libc.so.6 seems to be present, would that no be enough) ? Thx, Sven

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Messy Configurations

by Dale K. Henrichs

Cami, Metacello has never been properly ported to Pharo2.0 and we don't need to rehash those issues again ... I am working with Christophe to properly port Metacello to Pharo2.0 (we are down to about 8 failing tests so we are very close) ... Once this job is done, both Pharo2.0 and Pharo3.0 will be added to my travis ci lineup (I currently run ci builds for Metacello against 6 different versions of GemStone, 3 versions of Squeak and 4 versions of Pharo) ... Once Pharo2.0 and Pharo3.0 becomes part of the standard Metacello build lineup, I should be able to keep pace with you guys as you continue to push the boundaries of Smalltalk. Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Camillo Bruni" <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> | To: "Discusses Development of Pharo" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> | Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:58:38 AM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Messy Configurations | | | On 2013-05-23, at 07:52, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr> | wrote: | > On May 23, 2013, at 4:22 AM, Alexandre Bergel | > <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: | >>> What do you think? | >> | >> I think we should have a stable and strong Versionner. As soon as | >> making a software release is more than clicking one button, we | >> will end up with messy configurations. | > | > Yes christophe worked on porting travis to pharo because dale used | > it for his tests so that we can get the latest version of | > metacello | > in pharo. We do not do it for fun believe me. | | unless it runs in the current development version of Pharo I fear | that it will ever be used. | currently it only runs under 1.4 which is deprecated. If the current | development aims at 2.0 we will have the same situation.

May 23, 2013