May 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec and list item size

by Benjamin

PluggableListMorph do not support that Ben On May 25, 2013, at 8:45 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi > > How can I specify that the size of a liste element is two lines? > > Stef >

May 25, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] TxText new version 0.8

by Igor Stasenko

On 25 May 2013 11:44, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> so that means nobody *actually* loads code without tests? :D (evil laugh). >> >> But i do not argue about what is the be best deployment scenario. >> >> I am arguing about leaving developers to choose: >> - if (s)he wants to deploy with tests or not, it should be up to him. > > it's also up to him to > - write configurations > - write tests > - write documentation and examples > - commit code to a repository > - create jenkins jobs > > you see, there are many things that one can avoid to do in a project, yet it > is a common standard to do ALL of these tasks for a project. Yet you have your > liberty to ignore these things. > It heavily depends what kind of project is it. For small/tiny projects following all steps/recommendations may be not necessary and actually cumbersome. Consider pilot projects as well. For frameworks, mid to big projects or any project with intent to be used by others, of course, building up an ecosystem (docs, tests, examples etc) is necessary. > It is about the good path and how you push people towards it. If you do not > provide the tools for it we will be stuck in stone age forever. > > It has never been the liberty of ignoring things that brought a project forward, > but the tools that open new possibilities. > > How does an ideal project look for you? Ideal project has tests, docs, examples books, flyers with ad, sales managers and profit :) But things are never ideal, and you always looking for a sweet spot between: - time - resources - features and in situations when you lack of time & resources (usual for open-source projects), you have to pick what features to implement first, and which have to wait. You simply cannot afford to do everything in time, and hence you need to prioritize things. Writing documentation before 1st line of code, or otherwise? But this is orthogonal to my point. I see little point in keeping tests in deployed image. It is good to have tests, and run them regularly while developing, using SCM, continuous integration, writing docs, examples etc etc.. Consider deploying database application. To run all the tests for it may take days, often will require setting up special testing environment (outside of image) and many other things.. That means , even if you will keep those tests in image, you will be never able to run them in deployed environment, simply because this will mean: stopping all services, changing configs, firewalls.. etc.. So, do you really think that in such scenario (which actually typical for most server-based applications), having tests in deployed image makes any difference? -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

May 25, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] are there benchmarks like deltablue and richards for Pharo?

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-05-25, at 13:14, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On May 25, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> A couple of them are in Smark >> >> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StefanMarr/SMark >> >> >> On 2013-05-25, at 12:55, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> I wonder if there are benchmarks around. >>> Also I wonder if there would be useful :) >>> For "marketing" purposes I think yes: if we can put in the web page that we are running those benchmarks, it is cool for "seriousness" (that, of course, assuming the results will not be terribly bad :P) >> >> I know I am a major pain in the ass, but where do you plan to run these tests? > > yes, you are ;) > nah, I do not have any idea where to run them... I even doesn't know if I will, I was just thinking in loud. > but yes, I think it would be good if we can have recurrent (and reliable) benchmarks to show :) We ran a couple of benchmarks with the FulltextSearch project using the rizel command line handler: https://ci.inria.fr/rmod/job/FullTextSearch/plot/? ./pharo $JOB_NAME.image rizel --packagesMatching='FullTextSearch*' --reporter=RizelXMLReporter >> rizel.xml so basically everything is there :)

May 25, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] SystemAnnouncer api question

by Esteban Lorenzano

probably my fault ;) but can be implemented, there no reason for the restriction. Esteban On May 25, 2013, at 1:11 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi guys > > why there is no variant to on:send:to: > "SystemAnnouncer uniqueInstance on: AddedLog send: #foo to: self. " > that pass also the announcement? > > Just because it is better to use on:do;? > > Stef >

May 25, 2013

[update 3.0] #30167

by Marcus Denker

30167 ----- 10727 Cleaning trigger: use for deprecation of event https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10727 6489 Spec-ify DropListModel / TextModel https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/close/6489 Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Tests-MarcusDenker.543.diff http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Spec-Widgets-MarcusDenker.187… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Spec-Examples-MarcusDenker.29… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Polymorph-Widgets-MarcusDenke… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Kernel-MarcusDenker.1463.diff

May 25, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] are there benchmarks like deltablue and richards for Pharo?

by Esteban Lorenzano

On May 25, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > A couple of them are in Smark > > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StefanMarr/SMark > > > On 2013-05-25, at 12:55, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I wonder if there are benchmarks around. >> Also I wonder if there would be useful :) >> For "marketing" purposes I think yes: if we can put in the web page that we are running those benchmarks, it is cool for "seriousness" (that, of course, assuming the results will not be terribly bad :P) > > I know I am a major pain in the ass, but where do you plan to run these tests? yes, you are ;) nah, I do not have any idea where to run them... I even doesn't know if I will, I was just thinking in loud. but yes, I think it would be good if we can have recurrent (and reliable) benchmarks to show :) > We need a standalone server machine to do them reproducibly :)... OR use https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/Rizel-StackVM/

May 25, 2013

SystemAnnouncer api question

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys why there is no variant to on:send:to: "SystemAnnouncer uniqueInstance on: AddedLog send: #foo to: self. " that pass also the announcement? Just because it is better to use on:do;? Stef

May 25, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] are there benchmarks like deltablue and richards for Pharo?

by Camillo Bruni

A couple of them are in Smark http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StefanMarr/SMark On 2013-05-25, at 12:55, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I wonder if there are benchmarks around. > Also I wonder if there would be useful :) > For "marketing" purposes I think yes: if we can put in the web page that we are running those benchmarks, it is cool for "seriousness" (that, of course, assuming the results will not be terribly bad :P) I know I am a major pain in the ass, but where do you plan to run these tests? We need a standalone server machine to do them reproducibly :)... OR use https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/Rizel-StackVM/

May 25, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Halt subclass: #AssertionFailure

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-05-23, at 20:15, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Did you check the latest SUnit version before doing that ? I think it is > not integrated yet in Pharo. Yes I had a look at it, though not that much in detail. And I think not that much change on the global scale. I should check again I guess :)

May 25, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Kernel Discussion

by Esteban Lorenzano

well... I said the same when I was applying those changes, he :) I already made a note in my TODO list to refactor that as soon as possible too :) Esteban On May 25, 2013, at 12:55 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I've seen a lot of progress for the Pharo Kernel by Pavel recently and I > really appreciate his work. But I have some questions I think we should discuss. > > There have been quite a few changes to make code work in the Kernel and to > reduce dependencies between packages. But I really have the impression that > many of these changes are of bad quality :/. > > I do not want to offend people, but this is fairly important if we want to > have a nice code base. > > Example: > ======== > UnixResolver >> nbGetEnv: str > #NativeBoost asClassIfPresent: [ ^ self privNbGetEnv: str ]. > ^ nil > > The goal of this code is to conditionally do something in the main image but > continue to work in the kernel. > > Observations: > ============= > - #asClassIfPresent: and Co are bad > - Why do we clutter the main image if the kernel should change? > - Can't we solve these things by having proper other objects? > - Is the UnixResolver really needed in the Kernel? > > I worked with Esteban last week on a similar case in the CommandLineHandler and we ended up introducing a minimal superclass. I guess this goes much in the direction of having proper NullObjects. > > I really think we should not add these little nasty changes, but rather introduce proper > new classes that can be unloaded if needed. > > What do you think?

May 25, 2013