May 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] froze image just

by Henrik Johansen

On May 2, 2013, at 2:50 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 2 May 2013 09:54, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >> What? >> I am 99.99% sure it used to interrupt the GUI process if no other viable candidate could be found, why change that? >> At least in my mind, if you hit cmd - dot, either you want to interrupt some process blocking the UI on a higher priority, or you want the UI process itself. >> For everything else, there's the Process Browser. >> > > It was never like that. > It was always looking for a process which is scheduled, but not > interrupt process itself. > usually that meant it interrupts things like finalization process, > so i added logic to avoid interrupting it unless there's nothing else > to interrupt. >From 1.4: handleUserInterrupt [|toInterrupt| toInterrupt := Processor preemptedProcess. "Only interrupt processes which are potentially blocking the UI" toInterrupt priority < UIManager default uiProcess priority ifTrue: [toInterrupt := Project uiProcess]. So yes, it was like that. (barring the other flaws you mentioned, about potentially interrupting critical high-priority processes) Cheers, Henry

May 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] froze image just

by stephane ducasse

On May 2, 2013, at 2:50 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 2 May 2013 09:54, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >> What? >> I am 99.99% sure it used to interrupt the GUI process if no other viable candidate could be found, why change that? >> At least in my mind, if you hit cmd - dot, either you want to interrupt some process blocking the UI on a higher priority, or you want the UI process itself. >> For everything else, there's the Process Browser. >> > > It was never like that. > It was always looking for a process which is scheduled, but not > interrupt process itself. > usually that meant it interrupts things like finalization process, > so i added logic to avoid interrupting it unless there's nothing else > to interrupt. > > The problem is that if process is waiting for semaphore (and UI > process doing it quite often) > the interrupt handler cannot detect it. Because > 1) it is not scheduled > 2) even if you iterate over Process allInstances and ask #isSuspended > to it, it will answer true > > while 1) is fine, 2) is a design flaw i am talking about: > - there is no way to discriminate between process which waits on > semaphore and suspended process (which has no chances to run unless > you send #resume to it, and therefore no need to interrupt) thanks for the explanation. Stef > >> Cheers, >> Henry >> > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

May 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] froze image just

by Igor Stasenko

On 2 May 2013 09:54, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: > What? > I am 99.99% sure it used to interrupt the GUI process if no other viable candidate could be found, why change that? > At least in my mind, if you hit cmd - dot, either you want to interrupt some process blocking the UI on a higher priority, or you want the UI process itself. > For everything else, there's the Process Browser. > It was never like that. It was always looking for a process which is scheduled, but not interrupt process itself. usually that meant it interrupts things like finalization process, so i added logic to avoid interrupting it unless there's nothing else to interrupt. The problem is that if process is waiting for semaphore (and UI process doing it quite often) the interrupt handler cannot detect it. Because 1) it is not scheduled 2) even if you iterate over Process allInstances and ask #isSuspended to it, it will answer true while 1) is fine, 2) is a design flaw i am talking about: - there is no way to discriminate between process which waits on semaphore and suspended process (which has no chances to run unless you send #resume to it, and therefore no need to interrupt) > Cheers, > Henry > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

May 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] How i can retrieve the global by its name?

by Igor Stasenko

On 2 May 2013 14:14, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 2013-05-02, at 12:32, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> But today using Smalltalk everywhere means that we are always using the >> same environment, and that does not look like a big deal to anybody :)... >> >> And then, that's easily solved by doing some simple stuff if you like >> specify an environment, isn't it? >> >> Symbol>>asClass >> self asClassInEnvironment: self class environment >> >> Symbol>>asClassInEnvironment: anEnvironment >> anEnvironment globals at: self > > > #asClass I guess is orthogonal to the #asGlobal discussion, so I opened > an issue for it: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10478 > +1 asClass is different that is must guarantee that answered object should be class or fail if there's none or it is not a class. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

May 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] How i can retrieve the global by its name?

by Tobias Pape

Am 02.05.2013 um 13:45 schrieb Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > > Am 02.05.2013 um 06:03 schrieb Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: > >> #SomeName asGlobal >> >> (or suggest more appropriate/precise method name for a symbol) > > I think if you write > > asGlobalWhat? > > the problems with this becomes visible. As Steph wrote there is asClass which does it for the case you are looking for a class. I'm not sure how common the use case > > Smalltalk at: #foo put: somethingThatIsNotAClass > > is. Your selector is somewhat orthogonal to asClass as you define access via reachability and not via type. But trying to imagine the future asGlobal is not a good selector. At least I hope the "global" will go away completely. In that case it wouldn't be good to rely on. Another possibility that would make sense is > > asBinding (or a better name) what about #bound or even #bind ? can be extended to #boundObject â¦ Best -Tobias > > but that would only be good if it would search scopes upwards. So it can look into e.g. block -> method -> class -> environment -> ? And that would defeat the purpose of your mail in another way. > > So what is your rationale? My gut says I like the idea but I can't think of a useful selector/concept to make it a viable option. > > Norbert

May 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] How i can retrieve the global by its name?

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-05-02, at 12:32, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > But today using Smalltalk everywhere means that we are always using the > same environment, and that does not look like a big deal to anybody :)... > > And then, that's easily solved by doing some simple stuff if you like > specify an environment, isn't it? > > Symbol>>asClass > self asClassInEnvironment: self class environment > > Symbol>>asClassInEnvironment: anEnvironment > anEnvironment globals at: self #asClass I guess is orthogonal to the #asGlobal discussion, so I opened an issue for it: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10478

May 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] How i can retrieve the global by its name?

by Igor Stasenko

On 2 May 2013 13:45, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Am 02.05.2013 um 06:03 schrieb Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: > > #SomeName asGlobal > > (or suggest more appropriate/precise method name for a symbol) > > > I think if you write > > asGlobalWhat? > > the problems with this becomes visible. As Steph wrote there is asClass > which does it for the case you are looking for a class. I'm not sure how > common the use case > > Smalltalk at: #foo put: somethingThatIsNotAClass > > is. Your selector is somewhat orthogonal to asClass as you define access via > reachability and not via type. But trying to imagine the future asGlobal is > not a good selector. At least I hope the "global" will go away completely. > In that case it wouldn't be good to rely on. Another possibility that would > make sense is > > asBinding (or a better name) > > but that would only be good if it would search scopes upwards. So it can > look into e.g. block -> method -> class -> environment -> ? And that would > defeat the purpose of your mail in another way. > > So what is your rationale? My gut says I like the idea but I can't think of > a useful selector/concept to make it a viable option. > Maybe #asSmalltalkGlobal then? And lets not derail into "what if tomorrow we will have no globals etc".. when that tomorrow will happen, the code which uses "Smalltalk at: ... " will still exists, it won't disappear in one night. My rationale is that you don't write: Float fromInteger: 1 you write: 1 asFloat you could argue that it is completely different thing. And i argue it is the same: it is mapping from one set into another. Mapping from integer to float , or mapping from a name to global. > Norbert -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

May 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] SUnit design question

by Camillo Bruni

Yeah, so maybe this is the way to go, for now I think we simply add a bit more extended MOP to the TestResult so we can rewrite it from there on. For instance we only have #addSkip: which does not give you the user-defined message from #sip: as an argument. Same goes for #addError: and #addFailure: On 2013-05-02, at 10:08, Herby VojÄÃk <herby(a)mailbox.sk> wrote: > In Amber I created such thing, for the same reasons, but there SUnit is lot simpler than Pharo's one. > > stephane ducasse wrote: >> Indeed it would be nice to have. >> >> On May 1, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Camillo Bruni<camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm not sure if I asked that question before, but why is there no >>> dedicated TestRunner model in SUnit? (detailed question further down) >>> >>> There is a TestRunner but that is clearly a UI part. >>> >>> We have right now 2 places in the system where that would come in >>> handy: HDTestReport and the CommandLineTestRunner. >>> >>> Both places modify the output of the test runner, so to say instrument >>> the test runs. >>> >>> see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16315726/how-do-i-instrument-test-runner… >> >> >

May 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] How i can retrieve the global by its name?

by stephane ducasse

> But today using Smalltalk everywhere means that we are always using the same environment, and that does not look like a big deal to anybody :)... > > And then, that's easily solved by doing some simple stuff if you like specify an environment, isn't it? > > Symbol>>asClass > self asClassInEnvironment: self class environment > > Symbol>>asClassInEnvironment: anEnvironment > anEnvironment globals at: self yes :) something like that. Stef

May 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] How i can retrieve the global by its name?

by Norbert Hartl

Am 02.05.2013 um 06:03 schrieb Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: > #SomeName asGlobal > > (or suggest more appropriate/precise method name for a symbol) I think if you write asGlobalWhat? the problems with this becomes visible. As Steph wrote there is asClass which does it for the case you are looking for a class. I'm not sure how common the use case Smalltalk at: #foo put: somethingThatIsNotAClass is. Your selector is somewhat orthogonal to asClass as you define access via reachability and not via type. But trying to imagine the future asGlobal is not a good selector. At least I hope the "global" will go away completely. In that case it wouldn't be good to rely on. Another possibility that would make sense is asBinding (or a better name) but that would only be good if it would search scopes upwards. So it can look into e.g. block -> method -> class -> environment -> ? And that would defeat the purpose of your mail in another way. So what is your rationale? My gut says I like the idea but I can't think of a useful selector/concept to make it a viable option. Norbert

May 2, 2013