April 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Understanding Athens

by Igor Stasenko

On 16 April 2013 13:23, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Doru , I am using Pharo 2.0 from the main website , also it does not matter > because cairo libraries are looked outside the pharo folder. > > If you open system browser and go to the CairoLibraryLoader>>getLibraryPath > (class side) you will see it tries to find cairo libs in > '/usr/lib/libcairo.so' . On the other hand there are cairo libs included for > the windows version inside the pharo folder. Its kinda wierd that they are > not included for macos and linux. > For mac and windows we bundle VM together with cairo library. For linux, since they have a standardized way of installing third-party libs, you're on your own. Yes, it would be nice if we can get a precise instructions how to install 32-bit libs so other people can use them. > Pavel , you mid sharing how you installed 32 bit cairo, because I googled it > and I could not find anything on the subject. Thanks. > > Oh and if anyone can answer my stackoverflow questions i will be more than > grateful. I am prepared to contribute to > Athens as much as I can and even port mophic to it BUT i need first to > understrand what is going on. Sure, I will check and try to answer them. > I have read > Cairo documentation and now all i need is to decypher athens so be prepared > for a bombarment of questions. > You're welcome. > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Understanding-Athens-tp4681820p4681847.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 16, 2013

[Pharo-project] [pharo-project.org] tweaked download pages a bit...

by Marcus Denker

Hi, I changed a little the download pages http://www.pharo-project.org/ http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/release-2-0 http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/alpha-3-0 -> Do not present a choice to the new visitor but make it clear what to download -> be a bit more consistent between the 4 places

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Understanding Athens

by kilon

Doru , I am using Pharo 2.0 from the main website , also it does not matter because cairo libraries are looked outside the pharo folder. If you open system browser and go to the CairoLibraryLoader>>getLibraryPath (class side) you will see it tries to find cairo libs in '/usr/lib/libcairo.so' . On the other hand there are cairo libs included for the windows version inside the pharo folder. Its kinda wierd that they are not included for macos and linux. Pavel , you mid sharing how you installed 32 bit cairo, because I googled it and I could not find anything on the subject. Thanks. Oh and if anyone can answer my stackoverflow questions i will be more than grateful. I am prepared to contribute to Athens as much as I can and even port mophic to it BUT i need first to understrand what is going on. I have read Cairo documentation and now all i need is to decypher athens so be prepared for a bombarment of questions. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Understanding-Athens-tp4681820p4681847.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Understanding Athens

by Pavel Krivanek

To my 64bit Fedora I had to install 32bit Cairo and related libraries too (but then Athens worked). Cheers, -- Pavel On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:30 PM, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk>wrote: > I was doing the AthensTutorial and there is something I dont understand so > I created a stackoverflow question. > > Can be found here -> > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16034694/in-athenstutorial-where-canvas-… > > AthensTutorial does not work on Ubuntu 12.10 amd64 since it requires > cairo32bit and ubuntu comes with 64bit libs of cairo > should i file that as a bug ? I have not found a way to install cairo32 > bit in my ubuntu yet. >

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Understanding Athens

by Tudor Girba

Did you try installing the latest pharo vm? Doru On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:30 PM, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk>wrote: > I was doing the AthensTutorial and there is something I dont understand so > I created a stackoverflow question. > > Can be found here -> > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16034694/in-athenstutorial-where-canvas-… > > AthensTutorial does not work on Ubuntu 12.10 amd64 since it requires > cairo32bit and ubuntu comes with 64bit libs of cairo > should i file that as a bug ? I have not found a way to install cairo32 > bit in my ubuntu yet. > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Phobos on retina display

by Tudor Girba

Thanks for working on this. I will check it until tomorrow. Cheers, Doru On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hi, > > please can you check the latest Phobos demo bundle for Mac on a device > with retina display and maybe send me some screenshots? > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phobos/job/PhobosDemo-Mac/ > > Thanks, > -- Pavel > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

April 16, 2013

[Pharo-project] Understanding Athens

by dimitris chloupis

I was doing the AthensTutorial and there is something I dont understand so I created a stackoverflow question. Can be found here -> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16034694/in-athenstutorial-where-canvas-… AthensTutorial does not work on Ubuntu 12.10 amd64 since it requires cairo32bit and ubuntu comes with 64bit libs of cairo should i file that as a bug ? I have not found a way to install cairo32 bit in my ubuntu yet.

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] RFB server and 2.0

by Esteban Lorenzano

no idea, it looks like listen, but I still cannot connect. anyway, should be a problem in my machine, if it works for everybody else... I will check what can be happening :) thanks guys , Esteban On Apr 16, 2013, at 8:30 AM, Milan Mimica <milan.mimica(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I did and it works with no problem. Only tried it locally, but doesn't matter. > > > On 15 April 2013 20:37, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Someone has tried RFB in 2.0? I installed it, but looks like it is not working :( > > Esteban > > > > -- > Milan Mimica > http://sparklet.sf.net

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] DateAndTime bug: we should do something about it

by Igor Stasenko

On 16 April 2013 11:32, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: > > On Apr 15, 2013, at 4:50 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> On 15 April 2013 16:43, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 15 April 2013 16:32, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 3:25 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 15 April 2013 12:14, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2013, at 12:16 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But that's fine.. now look at >>>>>>> >>>>>>> secondsWhenClockTicks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "waits for the moment when a new second begins" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> | lastSecond | >>>>>>> >>>>>>> lastSecond := self primSecondsClock. >>>>>>> [ lastSecond = self primSecondsClock ] whileTrue: [ (Delay >>>>>>> forMilliseconds: 1) wait ]. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ^ lastSecond + 1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> that is complete nonsense. Sorry. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This code relying on primSecondsClock resolution, which is..... (drum >>>>>>> roll..... ) >>>>>>> 1 second.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> then it is combined with millisecondClockValue , as you see later to get >>>>>>> system time with millisecond precision.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not genius in math and physics.. but even i understand that if >>>>>>> you measurement has error X >>>>>>> you cannot get more precision than X, even if you combine it with >>>>>>> another measurement with higher precision. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (But i can be wrong with that.. if so, please explain why) >>>>>> >>>>>> Because, as Levente said in code, resolution != accuracy. >>>>>> When you measure a single sample, sure, that value has an error of max resolution / 2. >>>>>> But when you measure when that value _changes_, you have an error of the underlying accuracy / 2. >>>>>> Clock s value: 1 2 >>>>>> resolution: |_______|_______| >>>>>> accuracy: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| >>>>>> ^ >>>>>> Here's to hoping the above ascii art(?) worked! >>>>>> >>>>>> So no, that method is not complete nonsense. >>>>>> >>>>> Okay. >>>>> Now i rewriting the code which uses new primitive (primUTCMicrosecondClock), >>>>> and then we will no longer need this startup logic nor wrap around >>>>> check & other gory details... >>>>> just use a primitive. >>>> >>>> Sounds clearer, yes. >>>> >>>> However, be aware, at least on my VM: >>>> [Time millisecondClockValue] bench '34,600,000 per second.' >>>> [Time primUTCMicrosecondClock] bench '12,400,000 per second.' >>>> >>>> Which in my case translated to that in a Time2 class with #now defined: >>>> now >>>> >>>> | microSecondsToday | >>>> microSecondsToday := self primUTCMicrosecondClock \\ 86400000000. >>>> ^ self seconds: microSecondsToday // 1000000 nanoSeconds: microSecondsToday * 1000 >>>> >>>> and changing the relatively low-hanging fruit in standard Time (removing Duration creation and other crap): >>>> >>>> seconds: seconds nanoSeconds: nanoCount >>>> "Answer a Time from midnight." >>>> >>>> ^ self basicNew >>>> seconds: seconds nanoSeconds: nanoCount >>>> >>>> To benchmarks that looked like this: >>>> "Old code" >>>> [Time now ] bench '7,330,000 per second.' '7,280,000 per second.' '7,170,000 per second.' >>>> "Using microsecondClock every call" >>>> [Time2 now ] bench '2,280,000 per second.''2,300,000 per second.' '2,180,000 per second.' >>>> >>>> Also note, Time2 lacked translation to Local time, which would be needed for consistency with Time now. >>>> >>> >>> Well, i am not started modifying Time now, (will start in couple minutes ;) >>> but here results of DateAndTime now >>> before and after: >>> >>> before: >>> >>> >>> [ DateAndTime now ] bench '316,000 per second.' >>> >>> after: >>> >>> [ DateAndTime now ] bench '414,000 per second.' >>> >>> >>> with Time now, i think even if it will be "2,300,000" answers per second, >>> it is fairly acceptable , when accuracy of primitive is 1 microsecond, >>> you actually don't need more than 1 million answers per second, or you >>> will receive same answers. >>> >>> But aside of it, may i ask, why performance is so important/critical >>> for those? What is use case? >>> >> >> everything is good in comparison: >> >> [ self yourself ] bench '58,800,000 per second.' >> >> does nothing and just 25 times faster.. than Time now, >> so what is the point? :) > > The point was raising awareness that performance differences are also worthy of measuring when doing a reimplementation, not just code cleanliness. > A 3x decrease in performance is worth at least consideration as part of a reimplementation, even when the conclusion is "it's plenty fast enough for most uses anyways". > > Not to mention, "Made X Y% faster" looks better in the release notes than "Restructured the internals of X" :) > RIght. So, it is 3x slower , 1000x more accurate (milli vs micro), do not requires startup code do not need to account for counter wrapping and day change => much cleaner and nicer. + less buggy. As to me , the choice is obvious. > Cheers, > Henry > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 16, 2013

[Pharo-project] Phobos on retina display

by Pavel Krivanek

Hi, please can you check the latest Phobos demo bundle for Mac on a device with retina display and maybe send me some screenshots? https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phobos/job/PhobosDemo-Mac/ Thanks, -- Pavel

April 16, 2013