April 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [regression reporter]regression occurred

by stephane ducasse

On Apr 16, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > aaah I love to see a response to that :P > > my vicious plan to spam the pharo list when there are new tests failing > seems to work :) Hehehe yes we will conquer the world :)

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] How to browse a selected method in code viewer

by stephane ducasse

On Apr 16, 2013, at 2:35 PM, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Dammien Alt+m is the implementors, and as i said implementors works for me, > however alt+b which is for browsing does nothing. strange and how can we know in which class it is? Browse on a selector => should be equivalent to implementors. similarly implementor on a class => browse We lost this cross binding in 20. Stef

April 16, 2013

[Pharo-project] Pharo 2.0 and Zinc - big thanks!

by Torsten Bergmann

Thanks - Pharo 2.0 and Zinc makes it really easy to work with, write AND test HTTP stuff: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ testHandleRequestForFavIcon | response mime | response := requestHandler handleRequest: (ZnRequest get: '/favicon.ico' asZnUrl). self assert: response status = 200. "HTTP OK" mime := response entity contentType. self assert: mime main= 'image'; assert: mime sub = 'vnd.microsoft.icon' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ testSearchEngineIsSatisfied self assert: (ZnEasy get: 'http://www.pharo.org/robots.txt') status = 200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ...

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by Esteban Lorenzano

not to say about efficiency. I've been doing some cpu cycle tests. Rendering a 1600@1200 gradient to world canvas (repeat each 50ms): ~90% cpu consumption Same test, but sending it direct to window canvas using bridge: ~40% cpu consumption so... we are in the good path :) Esteban On Apr 16, 2013, at 8:28 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 16 April 2013 19:09, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen >> >> ha >> >> ha >> >> and >> >> ha >> >> I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross >> platform. >> >> Still another great library that is more than welcomed, definitely cant do >> any harm ;) >> > > By saying that we don't need Cairo on MacOS i meant following: > > Athens designed to support multiple backends. > It is out of question, that better to use most suitable backend, > available on current platform. > > But apart of it stays ObjC bridge. Which would allow us to speak with > ObjC-runtime > (and Mac VM using it) directly. > >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681975.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

April 16, 2013

[Pharo-project] the fun theory

by Johan Brichau

When I saw this website, I immediately thought about Pharo http://www.thefuntheory.com "This site is dedicated to the thought that something as simple as fun is the easiest way to change peopleâs behaviour for the better." Keep having fun! Johan

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by Igor Stasenko

On 16 April 2013 19:09, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen > > ha > > ha > > and > > ha > > I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross > platform. > > Still another great library that is more than welcomed, definitely cant do > any harm ;) > By saying that we don't need Cairo on MacOS i meant following: Athens designed to support multiple backends. It is out of question, that better to use most suitable backend, available on current platform. But apart of it stays ObjC bridge. Which would allow us to speak with ObjC-runtime (and Mac VM using it) directly. > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681975.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by Igor Stasenko

On 16 April 2013 19:31, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Well to be fair any language that respects itself has an ObjC bridge , and > its definetly a big deal if you want to embrace iOS too. So definetly the > thumbs up from me. I am no way against this. > > well, it is good to stand on the shoulder of giant, but as long as he moves into same direction as you want :) > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681982.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] DateAndTime bug: we should do something about it

by Eliot Miranda

On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:56 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 16 April 2013 11:32, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> > wrote: > > > > On Apr 15, 2013, at 4:50 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > >> On 15 April 2013 16:43, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> On 15 April 2013 16:32, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 3:25 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On 15 April 2013 12:14, Henrik Johansen < > henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2013, at 12:16 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But that's fine.. now look at > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> secondsWhenClockTicks > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "waits for the moment when a new second begins" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> | lastSecond | > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> lastSecond := self primSecondsClock. > >>>>>>> [ lastSecond = self primSecondsClock ] whileTrue: [ (Delay > >>>>>>> forMilliseconds: 1) wait ]. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ^ lastSecond + 1 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> that is complete nonsense. Sorry. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This code relying on primSecondsClock resolution, which is..... > (drum > >>>>>>> roll..... ) > >>>>>>> 1 second.. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> then it is combined with millisecondClockValue , as you see later > to get > >>>>>>> system time with millisecond precision.. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I am not genius in math and physics.. but even i understand that if > >>>>>>> you measurement has error X > >>>>>>> you cannot get more precision than X, even if you combine it with > >>>>>>> another measurement with higher precision. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> (But i can be wrong with that.. if so, please explain why) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Because, as Levente said in code, resolution != accuracy. > >>>>>> When you measure a single sample, sure, that value has an error of > max resolution / 2. > >>>>>> But when you measure when that value _changes_, you have an error > of the underlying accuracy / 2. > >>>>>> Clock s value: 1 2 > >>>>>> resolution: |_______|_______| > >>>>>> accuracy: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > >>>>>> ^ > >>>>>> Here's to hoping the above ascii art(?) worked! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So no, that method is not complete nonsense. > >>>>>> > >>>>> Okay. > >>>>> Now i rewriting the code which uses new primitive > (primUTCMicrosecondClock), > >>>>> and then we will no longer need this startup logic nor wrap around > >>>>> check & other gory details... > >>>>> just use a primitive. > >>>> > >>>> Sounds clearer, yes. > >>>> > >>>> However, be aware, at least on my VM: > >>>> [Time millisecondClockValue] bench '34,600,000 per second.' > >>>> [Time primUTCMicrosecondClock] bench '12,400,000 per second.' > >>>> > >>>> Which in my case translated to that in a Time2 class with #now > defined: > >>>> now > >>>> > >>>> | microSecondsToday | > >>>> microSecondsToday := self primUTCMicrosecondClock \\ > 86400000000. > >>>> ^ self seconds: microSecondsToday // 1000000 nanoSeconds: > microSecondsToday * 1000 > >>>> > >>>> and changing the relatively low-hanging fruit in standard Time > (removing Duration creation and other crap): > >>>> > >>>> seconds: seconds nanoSeconds: nanoCount > >>>> "Answer a Time from midnight." > >>>> > >>>> ^ self basicNew > >>>> seconds: seconds nanoSeconds: nanoCount > >>>> > >>>> To benchmarks that looked like this: > >>>> "Old code" > >>>> [Time now ] bench '7,330,000 per second.' '7,280,000 per second.' > '7,170,000 per second.' > >>>> "Using microsecondClock every call" > >>>> [Time2 now ] bench '2,280,000 per second.''2,300,000 per second.' > '2,180,000 per second.' > >>>> > >>>> Also note, Time2 lacked translation to Local time, which would be > needed for consistency with Time now. > >>>> > >>> > >>> Well, i am not started modifying Time now, (will start in couple > minutes ;) > >>> but here results of DateAndTime now > >>> before and after: > >>> > >>> before: > >>> > >>> > >>> [ DateAndTime now ] bench '316,000 per second.' > >>> > >>> after: > >>> > >>> [ DateAndTime now ] bench '414,000 per second.' > >>> > >>> > >>> with Time now, i think even if it will be "2,300,000" answers per > second, > >>> it is fairly acceptable , when accuracy of primitive is 1 microsecond, > >>> you actually don't need more than 1 million answers per second, or you > >>> will receive same answers. > >>> > >>> But aside of it, may i ask, why performance is so important/critical > >>> for those? What is use case? > >>> > >> > >> everything is good in comparison: > >> > >> [ self yourself ] bench '58,800,000 per second.' > >> > >> does nothing and just 25 times faster.. than Time now, > >> so what is the point? :) > > > > The point was raising awareness that performance differences are also > worthy of measuring when doing a reimplementation, not just code > cleanliness. > > A 3x decrease in performance is worth at least consideration as part of > a reimplementation, even when the conclusion is "it's plenty fast enough > for most uses anyways". > > > > Not to mention, "Made X Y% faster" looks better in the release notes > than "Restructured the internals of X" :) > > > RIght. > So, it is 3x slower , 1000x more accurate (milli vs micro), do not > requires startup code > do not need to account for counter wrapping and day change => much > cleaner and nicer. > + less buggy. > As to me , the choice is obvious. > and when we implement a proper 64-bit system with e.g. 61-bit SmallIntegers it will no longer be 3 times slower :) > > > Cheers, > > Henry > > > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- best, Eliot

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by kilon

Well to be fair any language that respects itself has an ObjC bridge , and its definetly a big deal if you want to embrace iOS too. So definetly the thumbs up from me. I am no way against this. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681982.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by Esteban Lorenzano

why do you think this is the final step? this is just the first one in a long run... and when we arrive to the goal, pharo will be both: cross platform + [your preferred system here] first citizen :) god, forgive this men of little faith... :P Esteban On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:12 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > We mainly say that each travel has to start with one step > > Ben > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:09 PM, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen >> >> ha >> >> ha >> >> and >> >> ha >> >> I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross >> platform. >> >> Still another great library that is more than welcomed, definitely cant do >> any harm ;) >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681975.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >

April 16, 2013