April 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Phobos on retina display

by Pavel Krivanek

Great, thank you for the confirmation. -- Pavel On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I checked and it looks beautiful. > > Great work. > > Doru > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 12:46 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > Thanks for working on this. > > > > I will check it until tomorrow. > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Pavel Krivanek < > pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > please can you check the latest Phobos demo bundle for Mac on a device > with retina display and maybe send me some screenshots? > > > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phobos/job/PhobosDemo-Mac/ > > > > Thanks, > > -- Pavel > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "One cannot do more than one can do." > > > > >

April 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, This is just the cairo library rendering in a quartz format. No native quartz access yet, so... 1) yes... is 100% compatible with Cairo (because it is Cairo :) 2) no GPU, no OpenGL, just optimized rendering (one of this days I will write the novel "how we render world canvas nowadays"... it is a thriller end-of-the-world story) we are thinking with Igor if a quartz native renderer has sense right now. Of course, in the long term, it has completely sense, but atm, I have the feeling that other more portable renderer (like an OpenGL renderer) is better investment. Anyway, we still have some other stuff to do before: - finish athens (including new text model) - finish bridge - test same with linux, windows etc. On Apr 17, 2013, at 7:50 AM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi > > 2013/4/17 Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero(a)usi.ch> > NICE work Esteban! > > Does the AthensQuartzSurface, support all Athens related code? (paths, > paints,etc..) I will be more than happy to move away from the software > rendering of the current cairo backend. > > Is Quartz work by GPU? is it use openGL? > > > Fernando > > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > not to say about efficiency. > > > > I've been doing some cpu cycle tests. > > > > Rendering a 1600@1200 gradient to world canvas (repeat each 50ms): ~90% cpu consumption > > > > Same test, but sending it direct to window canvas using bridge: ~40% cpu consumption > > > > so... we are in the good path :) > > > > Esteban > > > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 8:28 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On 16 April 2013 19:09, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>> And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen > >>> > >>> ha > >>> > >>> ha > >>> > >>> and > >>> > >>> ha > >>> > >>> I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross > >>> platform. > >>> > >>> Still another great library that is more than welcomed, definitely cant do > >>> any harm ;) > >>> > >> > >> By saying that we don't need Cairo on MacOS i meant following: > >> > >> Athens designed to support multiple backends. > >> It is out of question, that better to use most suitable backend, > >> available on current platform. > >> > >> But apart of it stays ObjC bridge. Which would allow us to speak with > >> ObjC-runtime > >> (and Mac VM using it) directly. > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681975.html > >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Best regards, > >> Igor Stasenko. > >> > > > > > >

April 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Phobos on retina display

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I checked and it looks beautiful. Great work. Doru On Apr 16, 2013, at 12:46 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Thanks for working on this. > > I will check it until tomorrow. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > please can you check the latest Phobos demo bundle for Mac on a device with retina display and maybe send me some screenshots? > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phobos/job/PhobosDemo-Mac/ > > Thanks, > -- Pavel > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" -- www.tudorgirba.com "One cannot do more than one can do."

April 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by Denis Kudriashov

Hi 2013/4/17 Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero(a)usi.ch> > NICE work Esteban! > > Does the AthensQuartzSurface, support all Athens related code? (paths, > paints,etc..) I will be more than happy to move away from the software > rendering of the current cairo backend. > Is Quartz work by GPU? is it use openGL? > > Fernando > > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > not to say about efficiency. > > > > I've been doing some cpu cycle tests. > > > > Rendering a 1600@1200 gradient to world canvas (repeat each 50ms): > ~90% cpu consumption > > > > Same test, but sending it direct to window canvas using bridge: ~40% cpu > consumption > > > > so... we are in the good path :) > > > > Esteban > > > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 8:28 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On 16 April 2013 19:09, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>> And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen > >>> > >>> ha > >>> > >>> ha > >>> > >>> and > >>> > >>> ha > >>> > >>> I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross > >>> platform. > >>> > >>> Still another great library that is more than welcomed, definitely > cant do > >>> any harm ;) > >>> > >> > >> By saying that we don't need Cairo on MacOS i meant following: > >> > >> Athens designed to support multiple backends. > >> It is out of question, that better to use most suitable backend, > >> available on current platform. > >> > >> But apart of it stays ObjC bridge. Which would allow us to speak with > >> ObjC-runtime > >> (and Mac VM using it) directly. > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681975.html > >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Best regards, > >> Igor Stasenko. > >> > > > > > >

April 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] How to browse a selected method in code viewer

by Damien Cassou

On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:35 PM, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Dammien Alt+m is the implementors, and as i said implementors works for me, > however alt+b which is for browsing does nothing. please report on fogbugz with exact steps to reproduce -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

April 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 2.0 and Zinc - big thanks!

by S Krish

I prefer thick client native apps, but experience in the core enterprise space tells me: Enterprise is about making money and keeping the works as least technically challenging as possible to be able to sustain it at lowest input costs. For thin client enabled application distribution is about both technical capability: scaling servers, flexibility, maintenance etc and also reasons Ben states below. Client-Server architectures have evolved along with progressive improvement in network bandwidth to move data / computation / business logic to the server end. As browsers are improving to support more of computation / presentation logic, the pick up a bit in use of HTML5, the argument for thick client / native applications is narrowing. Cloud computing, Big Data processing, Hadoop map-reduce et als these inherently are shifting the computing paradigm more to the back-end reducing the client to just a view screen. That said, thick native client for mostly standalone apps connected / disconnected have picked up with the iStore / Android MP and in future we could evolve a more suitable generic client that can enable intense computation on client / or run off like a thin client - server as required transparently. But can we throw in as many resources to compete with a Google / MS / Firefox in their run up to beefing up browsers as general purpose clients ( thin / thick as you wish it to be ) I would love to see a Pharo Marketplace with native clients running off on Pharo..!.. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> <ranting> >> i wonder why people so obsessed with web? >> it is ugly, and dead before born.. >> </ranting> >> >> > > Reasonable rant. I'm not a web developer so I am only guessing... > > Consumer perspective > * Zero Install - or at least the perception of Zero Install. Of course > you actually need to install a browser of choice, but commonly these are > pre-installed for Mum&Dad. > * Sandboxing - executing code with limited access to the system - ignoring > security exploits. > > Developer perspective > * Fast Centralized Deployment - updating the server updates all users. > * Common Platform - theoretically reduced effort although issues with > compatibility and least-common-denominator > > Evil Corporate/Government Perspective > * Common Platform - to track _everyone_ and targeted advertising. > > cheers -ben > > > On 17 April 2013 02:19, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >> >> >>> Torsten Bergmann wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Thanks - Pharo 2.0 and Zinc makes it really easy >>>> to work with, write AND test HTTP stuff: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> That sparks an idea, perhaps for a student project... >>> That a general HTTP testing framework for use against non-Pharo systems >>> could be just the thing to help the uptake of Pharo in "enterprises". >>> The >>> level of trust required for an internal testing tool is less than that >>> required for an end-user system. This might be a good stepping stone for >>> enterprises which may initially view Smalltalk a bit strange. >>> Unless of course best practice is to use web testing tools from within >>> real >>> web browsers (I not familiar with what the options are). Perhaps a >>> website >>> stress test tool where the live exceptions can be inspected is something >>> that other tools cannot do. >>> >>> cheers -ben >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >

April 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by Fernando Olivero

NICE work Esteban! Does the AthensQuartzSurface, support all Athens related code? (paths, paints,etc..) I will be more than happy to move away from the software rendering of the current cairo backend. Fernando On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > not to say about efficiency. > > I've been doing some cpu cycle tests. > > Rendering a 1600@1200 gradient to world canvas (repeat each 50ms): ~90% cpu consumption > > Same test, but sending it direct to window canvas using bridge: ~40% cpu consumption > > so... we are in the good path :) > > Esteban > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 8:28 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 16 April 2013 19:09, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>> And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen >>> >>> ha >>> >>> ha >>> >>> and >>> >>> ha >>> >>> I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross >>> platform. >>> >>> Still another great library that is more than welcomed, definitely cant do >>> any harm ;) >>> >> >> By saying that we don't need Cairo on MacOS i meant following: >> >> Athens designed to support multiple backends. >> It is out of question, that better to use most suitable backend, >> available on current platform. >> >> But apart of it stays ObjC bridge. Which would allow us to speak with >> ObjC-runtime >> (and Mac VM using it) directly. >> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681975.html >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> > >

April 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 2.0 and Zinc - big thanks!

by Ben Coman

Igor Stasenko wrote: > <ranting> > i wonder why people so obsessed with web? > it is ugly, and dead before born.. > </ranting> > Reasonable rant. I'm not a web developer so I am only guessing... Consumer perspective * Zero Install - or at least the perception of Zero Install. Of course you actually need to install a browser of choice, but commonly these are pre-installed for Mum&Dad. * Sandboxing - executing code with limited access to the system - ignoring security exploits. Developer perspective * Fast Centralized Deployment - updating the server updates all users. * Common Platform - theoretically reduced effort although issues with compatibility and least-common-denominator Evil Corporate/Government Perspective * Common Platform - to track _everyone_ and targeted advertising. cheers -ben > On 17 April 2013 02:19, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > >> Torsten Bergmann wrote: >> >>> Thanks - Pharo 2.0 and Zinc makes it really easy >>> to work with, write AND test HTTP stuff: >>> >>> >>> >> That sparks an idea, perhaps for a student project... >> That a general HTTP testing framework for use against non-Pharo systems >> could be just the thing to help the uptake of Pharo in "enterprises". The >> level of trust required for an internal testing tool is less than that >> required for an end-user system. This might be a good stepping stone for >> enterprises which may initially view Smalltalk a bit strange. >> Unless of course best practice is to use web testing tools from within real >> web browsers (I not familiar with what the options are). Perhaps a website >> stress test tool where the live exceptions can be inspected is something >> that other tools cannot do. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> > > > >

April 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 2.0 and Zinc - big thanks!

by Igor Stasenko

<ranting> i wonder why people so obsessed with web? it is ugly, and dead before born.. </ranting> On 17 April 2013 02:19, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > Torsten Bergmann wrote: >> >> Thanks - Pharo 2.0 and Zinc makes it really easy >> to work with, write AND test HTTP stuff: >> >> > > That sparks an idea, perhaps for a student project... > That a general HTTP testing framework for use against non-Pharo systems > could be just the thing to help the uptake of Pharo in "enterprises". The > level of trust required for an internal testing tool is less than that > required for an end-user system. This might be a good stepping stone for > enterprises which may initially view Smalltalk a bit strange. > Unless of course best practice is to use web testing tools from within real > web browsers (I not familiar with what the options are). Perhaps a website > stress test tool where the live exceptions can be inspected is something > that other tools cannot do. > > cheers -ben > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello configuration conventions

by Sean P. DeNigris

Camillo Bruni-3 wrote > I liked ruby-gems approach more than the one in Metacello. You usually > specify > a major version (as under linux) for your dependency. It seems they're using semantic versioning, which is *awesome*, but can we depend on the convention being followed? I've been pushing to get the tools (e.g. Versionner) to use semantic version numbers by default (i.e. new bugfix version, new enhancement version, new incompatible version) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Metacello-configuration-conventions-tp4681777p4682036… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 17, 2013