April 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] DateAndTime bug: we should do something about it

by Eliot Miranda

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:31 AM, Henrik Johansen < henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:56 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 16 April 2013 11:32, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> >> wrote: >> > >> > On Apr 15, 2013, at 4:50 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> > >> >> On 15 April 2013 16:43, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 15 April 2013 16:32, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> >> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 3:25 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> On 15 April 2013 12:14, Henrik Johansen < >> henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2013, at 12:16 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> But that's fine.. now look at >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> secondsWhenClockTicks >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> "waits for the moment when a new second begins" >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> | lastSecond | >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> lastSecond := self primSecondsClock. >> >>>>>>> [ lastSecond = self primSecondsClock ] whileTrue: [ (Delay >> >>>>>>> forMilliseconds: 1) wait ]. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> ^ lastSecond + 1 >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> that is complete nonsense. Sorry. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> This code relying on primSecondsClock resolution, which is..... >> (drum >> >>>>>>> roll..... ) >> >>>>>>> 1 second.. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> then it is combined with millisecondClockValue , as you see later >> to get >> >>>>>>> system time with millisecond precision.. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I am not genius in math and physics.. but even i understand that >> if >> >>>>>>> you measurement has error X >> >>>>>>> you cannot get more precision than X, even if you combine it with >> >>>>>>> another measurement with higher precision. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> (But i can be wrong with that.. if so, please explain why) >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Because, as Levente said in code, resolution != accuracy. >> >>>>>> When you measure a single sample, sure, that value has an error of >> max resolution / 2. >> >>>>>> But when you measure when that value _changes_, you have an error >> of the underlying accuracy / 2. >> >>>>>> Clock s value: 1 2 >> >>>>>> resolution: |_______|_______| >> >>>>>> accuracy: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| >> >>>>>> ^ >> >>>>>> Here's to hoping the above ascii art(?) worked! >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> So no, that method is not complete nonsense. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> Okay. >> >>>>> Now i rewriting the code which uses new primitive >> (primUTCMicrosecondClock), >> >>>>> and then we will no longer need this startup logic nor wrap around >> >>>>> check & other gory details... >> >>>>> just use a primitive. >> >>>> >> >>>> Sounds clearer, yes. >> >>>> >> >>>> However, be aware, at least on my VM: >> >>>> [Time millisecondClockValue] bench '34,600,000 per second.' >> >>>> [Time primUTCMicrosecondClock] bench '12,400,000 per second.' >> >>>> >> >>>> Which in my case translated to that in a Time2 class with #now >> defined: >> >>>> now >> >>>> >> >>>> | microSecondsToday | >> >>>> microSecondsToday := self primUTCMicrosecondClock \\ >> 86400000000. >> >>>> ^ self seconds: microSecondsToday // 1000000 nanoSeconds: >> microSecondsToday * 1000 >> >>>> >> >>>> and changing the relatively low-hanging fruit in standard Time >> (removing Duration creation and other crap): >> >>>> >> >>>> seconds: seconds nanoSeconds: nanoCount >> >>>> "Answer a Time from midnight." >> >>>> >> >>>> ^ self basicNew >> >>>> seconds: seconds nanoSeconds: nanoCount >> >>>> >> >>>> To benchmarks that looked like this: >> >>>> "Old code" >> >>>> [Time now ] bench '7,330,000 per second.' '7,280,000 per second.' >> '7,170,000 per second.' >> >>>> "Using microsecondClock every call" >> >>>> [Time2 now ] bench '2,280,000 per second.''2,300,000 per second.' >> '2,180,000 per second.' >> >>>> >> >>>> Also note, Time2 lacked translation to Local time, which would be >> needed for consistency with Time now. >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> Well, i am not started modifying Time now, (will start in couple >> minutes ;) >> >>> but here results of DateAndTime now >> >>> before and after: >> >>> >> >>> before: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> [ DateAndTime now ] bench '316,000 per second.' >> >>> >> >>> after: >> >>> >> >>> [ DateAndTime now ] bench '414,000 per second.' >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> with Time now, i think even if it will be "2,300,000" answers per >> second, >> >>> it is fairly acceptable , when accuracy of primitive is 1 microsecond, >> >>> you actually don't need more than 1 million answers per second, or you >> >>> will receive same answers. >> >>> >> >>> But aside of it, may i ask, why performance is so important/critical >> >>> for those? What is use case? >> >>> >> >> >> >> everything is good in comparison: >> >> >> >> [ self yourself ] bench '58,800,000 per second.' >> >> >> >> does nothing and just 25 times faster.. than Time now, >> >> so what is the point? :) >> > >> > The point was raising awareness that performance differences are also >> worthy of measuring when doing a reimplementation, not just code >> cleanliness. >> > A 3x decrease in performance is worth at least consideration as part of >> a reimplementation, even when the conclusion is "it's plenty fast enough >> for most uses anyways". >> > >> > Not to mention, "Made X Y% faster" looks better in the release notes >> than "Restructured the internals of X" :) >> > >> RIght. >> So, it is 3x slower , 1000x more accurate (milli vs micro), do not >> requires startup code >> do not need to account for counter wrapping and day change => much >> cleaner and nicer. >> + less buggy. >> As to me , the choice is obvious. >> > > and when we implement a proper 64-bit system with e.g. 61-bit > SmallIntegers it will no longer be 3 times slower :) > > > Sorry for the derail, but why not 62? ;) > > http://forum.world.st/Fwd-Plan-discussion-communication-around-new-object-f… > sure, perhaps (devil's in the details), but >= 60 is 36k years of microseconds :) > > Cheers, > Henry > -- best, Eliot

April 19, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] files.pharo.org: Moving to new server

by Stephan Eggermont

Ben wrote: >I have seen mentioned that SmalltalkHub is faster than previous >repositories, but I also wonder... is there any consideration (or value) >to hooking SmalltalkHub up with a CDN ? >All uploaded mcz files are effectively static content. In the long term p2p based distribution would be much better. That fits much better with a cached CI/CD environment. And as that takes time to set up, a CDN can solve the content availability problem much sooner Stephan

April 19, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] files.pharo.org: Moving to new server

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-04-19, at 17:58, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Apr 19, 2013, at 5:54 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: > >> Marcus Denker wrote: >>> 3) enable CDN for the static files. (NEXT WEEK) >>> >>> >>> Marcus and Camillo >>> >> >> I have seen mentioned that SmalltalkHub is faster than previous repositories, but I also wonder... is there any consideration (or value) to hooking SmalltalkHub up with a CDN ? All uploaded mcz files are effectively static content. >> > we where thinking about that, too. > > We should try... yes, let's first see how much speedup we get with the file server :)

April 19, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] files.pharo.org: Moving to new server

by Marcus Denker

On Apr 19, 2013, at 5:54 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: > Marcus Denker wrote: >> 3) enable CDN for the static files. (NEXT WEEK) >> >> >> Marcus and Camillo >> > > I have seen mentioned that SmalltalkHub is faster than previous repositories, but I also wonder... is there any consideration (or value) to hooking SmalltalkHub up with a CDN ? All uploaded mcz files are effectively static content. > we where thinking about that, too. We should try... Marcus

April 19, 2013

[Pharo-project] [update 3.0] #30046

by Marcus Denker

30046 ----- 10313 initialize SpecProxyDebugger to be able to choose it in pre-debug window https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10313 10303 Duplicated instance #model in NewList (already defined in MorphicModel) https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10303/ Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/NewList-MarcusDenker.26

April 19, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] files.pharo.org: Moving to new server

by Ben Coman

Marcus Denker wrote: > 3) enable CDN for the static files. (NEXT WEEK) > > > Marcus and Camillo > I have seen mentioned that SmalltalkHub is faster than previous repositories, but I also wonder... is there any consideration (or value) to hooking SmalltalkHub up with a CDN ? All uploaded mcz files are effectively static content. cheers -ben

April 19, 2013

[Pharo-project] Fwd: [Moose-dev] Roassal new algorithms

by Alexandre Bergel

Let's have this discussion in the Pharo list. Alexandre Begin forwarded message: > From: Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > Subject: [Moose-dev] Re: Roassal new algorithms > Date: April 19, 2013 11:25:31 AM GMT-04:00 > To: Moose-related development <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch> > Reply-To: Moose-related development <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch> > >> There are more than simply linear, quadratic and cubic Bezier curves. In fact, as you can have as many control points as you wish, you can have a Bezier curve of any order. > > Ok > >> But what I was calling RadialBezierCurve was a kind of strategy, I mean I have an abstract class which knows how to compute a curve, but I still have to choose my control points so I was thinking to create different subclasses whose role is to know what are their control points : >> >> - The radial one choose its control points within the same radius as its source and its target. > > Ah ok > >> I wanted to create an ortoVertical and an ortoHorizontal whose control points would have been computed differently, so that we could use Bezier curve for regular tree too. > > It would be cool to have hierarchical bundles edges in Roassal. > A screenshot of what it looks like: > > > The technical description: http://www.win.tue.nl/~dholten/papers/bundles_infovis.pdf > > Alexandre > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

April 19, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Version 1.39 of Versionner

by Torsten Bergmann

> > Works now - thanks. I've put a copy of the config into ss3/MetaRepoForPharo20 > > so one can easily load via Configuration browser from within the 2.0 image. > > Excellent! > Something that would be amazing, is to have a small text panel that appears when you select a configuration, with a short description (or at least some keywords) of what the software about to install is all about. > > For example, there are only a few projects that I can imagine what they are about. For example, no idea what VistaCursors, VoyageMongo, ScriptManager are about. I know I can easily find the info on the different forges. But my point is that the visibility of these projects is really small. > > Maybe we can use as a convention a method #readme on each ConfigurationOf ? > > Alexandre I completely agree that more work is needed. I started a new config browser for 3.0 (based on Spec) as a changeset - currently I cant find the issue on this horrible new issue tracker ;) Yes - the config itself would be a good place. One problem: if you want to have a slick UI (fast moving in the list) you would have to load all the configs into the image. Or one needs an updating server job that collects all #readmes and provides a txt/xml file for the config browser client Bye T.

April 19, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Old bugs fixed by Opal

by Marcus Denker

On Apr 19, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: > > On Apr 19, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Marcus Denker wrote: > >> >> On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> >>> On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:35 PM, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Did you use >>>>> >>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/rmod/job/Opal/ >>>>> >>>>> The Opal in the image is a bit out-datedâ¦ >>>> >>>> I did just now, but there, debugging *anything* (even 3 + 4, or using cmd dot) with the Opal Compiler set to default seemed to bring the image into a near catatonic stateâ¦ >>>> Sort of hard to check if the buttons were fixed, with no debugger ever opening. ;) >>>> >>> >>> Yes, we committed some changes that might have broken thingsâ¦ >>> I will check. >>> >> Ok, found itâ¦ at least the debugger appears again after a "self halt" :-) >> >> https://ci.inria.fr/rmod/job/Opal/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Opal.zip >> >> We should remember to never think it works before the regression tester is successfulâ¦ >> Clement wrote a blog post: >> http://clementbera.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/toward-a-zero-bugs-interpreter-… >> >> Marcus >> >> > That's *really* great! > With everything properly initialized, it works smoothly! (other than having to click more than once to advance PC into the optimized to:do: blocks) > > One thing I ran into that doesn't work as I'd expect now, is UHE's when using "Through"; > > Debugging > "nil asInteger" or, "ClosureTests new testToDoOutsideTemp" (which has collection uninitialized, and exhibits the same at #add: send) > - pressing "Over" I get the expected behavior of opening MessageNotUnderstood: in the same Debugger > - pressing "Through", I get the MNU in new pre-debugger after a loooong delay on first click, then, presumably with PC erroneously incremented, an unrelated error on 2nd click, also in new pre-debugger. > Ok, we will have a look at that. Marcus

April 19, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Version 1.39 of Versionner

by Alexandre Bergel

>> No idea why happened. >> I copied the a missing file in the repository >> Try again, it should work now >> >> Alexandre > > Works now - thanks. I've put a copy of the config into ss3/MetaRepoForPharo20 > so one can easily load via Configuration browser from within the 2.0 image. Excellent! Something that would be amazing, is to have a small text panel that appears when you select a configuration, with a short description (or at least some keywords) of what the software about to install is all about. For example, there are only a few projects that I can imagine what they are about. For example, no idea what VistaCursors, VoyageMongo, ScriptManager are about. I know I can easily find the info on the different forges. But my point is that the visibility of these projects is really small. Maybe we can use as a convention a method #readme on each ConfigurationOf ? Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

April 19, 2013