March 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] bump: pharo wikipedia page sucks

by ClÃ©ment Bera

Interesting, this English Pharo wiki page. I quote : 'Pharo is now organized as a benevolent dictatorship<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_Dictator_For_Life> of the community members who previously felt that they did not have enough influence. The members of the Pharo board are Marcus Denker<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marcus_Denker&action=edit&redlink…> , StÃ©phane Ducasse<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=St%C3%A9phane_Ducasse&action=edit…>, and Sven Van Caekenberghe.'. I'm going to edit it a little to introduce Pharo in the page instead of having a bunch of critics against some people of the community. Regards, 2013/3/28 Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> > On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 4:40 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > I tried to write some more stuff on the French Pharo wiki page : > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharo . > > > > I moved all the reference to history (birth of smalltalk, relation with > > companies, forking) in the history section. I tried to focus the page on > How > > to use Pharo and Who uses Pharo. I would like the add a part 'Why Pharo > is > > so great' with all its nice features, which are kind of already in the > > introduction of the page but I don't know how to present it well and > what to > > focus on. Right now it is more like 'It is smalltalk so it is great' but > not > > 'This is Pharo and these are the reasons why it is great' like they have > on > > Amber web page. > > > > Tell me if you like the way I made the French Pharo wiki page I will > > translate it in English. > > > > If you have somewhere a list of great features of Pharo to inspire me so > I > > can write it down in a section. > > > > Some more reference on how to learn Smalltalk would be nice too (Adding > to > > Pharo by example 1 & 2) > > Thank you Clement for your work. I agree with you that the Pharo > should be redesign massively ;-) > > Maybe we should talk on the french Smalltalk mailing-list how we > redesign the page ? > > Regards, > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://doesnotunderstand.org/ > > -- ClÃ©ment BÃ©ra Mate Virtual Machine Engineer BÃ¢timent B 40, avenue Halley 59650 *Villeneuve d'Ascq*

March 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] [update 3.0] #30016

by Esteban Lorenzano

no, it is... or it should be :) On Mar 29, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > why is the new update already in > http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/updates/pharo3.0/updates30.list > > when it is still present in the staged file? > http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/updates/pharo3.0/updates30.staged > > does that mean that the staged update process isn't used properly yet? > > On 2013-03-29, at 15:33, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> >> 30016 >> ----- >> >> 10168 Spec new layout management >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10168 >> >> >> Diff information: >> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Spec-Layout-StephaneDucasse.… >> >> >> Stef ;) >> > >

March 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] How to open a file with external app

by phil＠highoctane.be

Yes, that's frustrating. Example: Help Server using NBShell32 and not working on OSX... 2013/3/29 jannik.laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> > Yes, > But I am thinking that using 2 differents things to do the same work is > not cool. > > So, I will use that for now. > Thank you > > Jannik > > On Mar 29, 2013, at 12:47 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > For OSX, it is just a matter of calling open from the OSProcess as > > Cami told us in the list already. It works. > > > > Phil > > > > 2013/3/29 jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com>: > >> Hi Phil, > >> > >> Thank you for the help. > >> But this line is only available for Windows. > >> I don't find the same for MacOS and Linux. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Jannik > >> > >> > >> 2013/3/29 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > >>> > >>> Looks like OSProcess is not your best bet. > >>> > >>> Check NBWin32Shell instead (in NativeBoostWin32) > >>> > >>> (Smalltalk at: #NBWin32Shell) shellBrowse: 'http://localhost:', > >>> self > >>> port asString > >>> > >>> Phil > >>> > >>> 2013/3/29 jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com>: > >>>> Hi again, > >>>> > >>>> I took the ConfigurationOfOSProcess in > >>>> http://www.squeaksource.com/MetacelloRepository > >>>> When I load the stable version in Pharo2.0, there is a lot of error > that > >>>> things are undeclared in Transcript: > >>>> > >>>> === > >>>> CommandShell>>builtinCommandProxyFor:input:output:error: > >>>> (ShellBuiltinEvaluator is Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShell>>evaluationProxyFor:input:output:error: > >>>> (ExpressionEvaluator is > >>>> Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShell>>installCommands: (ShellBuiltin is Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShell>>open (CommandShellTranscript is Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShell>>openLabel: (CommandShellTranscript is Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShell>>pipeline: (ProxyPipeline is Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShell>>pipelineCollectionFrom: (ProxyPipeline is Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShell>>processProxyFor:input:output:error:predecessorProxy: > >>>> (InternalPipe is Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShell>>processProxyFor:input:output:error:predecessorProxy: > >>>> (PipeJunction is Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShell>>processProxyFor:input:output:error:predecessorProxy: > >>>> (PipeableOSProcess is Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShell>>scheduleToEvaluate: (ScheduledControllers is Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor class>>fileNamed:inDirectoryPath: (CrLfFileStream is > >>>> Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor class>>fileNamed:withLabel: (CrLfFileStream is > >>>> Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>bogusTruncate: (CrLfFileStream is Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>fileContentsMenu:shifted: (ParagraphEditor is > >>>> Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>getAnotherFileName: (PopUpMenu is Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>getAnotherFileName: (FillInTheBlank is Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>getFileName: (PopUpMenu is Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>getFileName: (FillInTheBlank is Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>mvcWithLabel: (StandardSystemView is Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>mvcWithLabel: (StandardSystemController is Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>mvcWithLabel: (PluggableTextView is Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>put: (CrLfFileStream is Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>put: (CrLfFileStream is Undeclared) > >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>saveAs (FillInTheBlank is Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShellTranscript>>openLabel: (StandardSystemView is Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShellTranscript>>openLabel: (StandardSystemController is > >>>> Undeclared) > >>>> CommandShellTranscript>>openLabel: (ShellWindowView is Undeclared) > >>>> === > >>>> > >>>> Do I have the correct version ? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Jannik > >>>> > >>>> 2013/3/29 jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you all. > >>>>> > >>>>> Jannik > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 2013/3/28 Holger Hans Peter Freyther <holger(a)freyther.de> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:26:21PM +0100, Camillo Bruni wrote: > >>>>>>> The only solution currently is to use OSProcess and > >>>>>>> - open under OSX > >>>>>>> - gnome-open under linux > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Please use xdg-open to work on all free desktop implementations. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> > >>>>> ~~Dr. Jannik Laval~~ > >>>>> Ãcole des Mines de Douai > >>>>> Enseignant-chercheur > >>>>> http://www.jannik-laval.eu > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>>> ~~Dr. Jannik Laval~~ > >>>> Ãcole des Mines de Douai > >>>> Enseignant-chercheur > >>>> http://www.jannik-laval.eu > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> ~~Dr. Jannik Laval~~ > >> Ãcole des Mines de Douai > >> Enseignant-chercheur > >> http://www.jannik-laval.eu > > > > >

March 29, 2013

[Pharo-project] [update 3.0] #30017

by stephane ducasse

30017 ----- 10127 New cleans for CriticsBrowser https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10127 10175 New transformation rule + some corrections https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10175 Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Refactoring-Critics-Stephane… http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/NautilusCommon-StephaneDucas… http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Manifest-Tests-StephaneDucas… http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Manifest-CriticBrowser-Steph… http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Manifest-Core-StephaneDucass… Stef and camille

March 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] How to open a file with external app

by jannik.laval

Yes, But I am thinking that using 2 differents things to do the same work is not cool. So, I will use that for now. Thank you Jannik On Mar 29, 2013, at 12:47 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > For OSX, it is just a matter of calling open from the OSProcess as > Cami told us in the list already. It works. > > Phil > > 2013/3/29 jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com>: >> Hi Phil, >> >> Thank you for the help. >> But this line is only available for Windows. >> I don't find the same for MacOS and Linux. >> >> Thanks, >> Jannik >> >> >> 2013/3/29 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> >>> >>> Looks like OSProcess is not your best bet. >>> >>> Check NBWin32Shell instead (in NativeBoostWin32) >>> >>> (Smalltalk at: #NBWin32Shell) shellBrowse: 'http://localhost:', >>> self >>> port asString >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> 2013/3/29 jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com>: >>>> Hi again, >>>> >>>> I took the ConfigurationOfOSProcess in >>>> http://www.squeaksource.com/MetacelloRepository >>>> When I load the stable version in Pharo2.0, there is a lot of error that >>>> things are undeclared in Transcript: >>>> >>>> === >>>> CommandShell>>builtinCommandProxyFor:input:output:error: >>>> (ShellBuiltinEvaluator is Undeclared) >>>> CommandShell>>evaluationProxyFor:input:output:error: >>>> (ExpressionEvaluator is >>>> Undeclared) >>>> CommandShell>>installCommands: (ShellBuiltin is Undeclared) >>>> CommandShell>>open (CommandShellTranscript is Undeclared) >>>> CommandShell>>openLabel: (CommandShellTranscript is Undeclared) >>>> CommandShell>>pipeline: (ProxyPipeline is Undeclared) >>>> CommandShell>>pipelineCollectionFrom: (ProxyPipeline is Undeclared) >>>> CommandShell>>processProxyFor:input:output:error:predecessorProxy: >>>> (InternalPipe is Undeclared) >>>> CommandShell>>processProxyFor:input:output:error:predecessorProxy: >>>> (PipeJunction is Undeclared) >>>> CommandShell>>processProxyFor:input:output:error:predecessorProxy: >>>> (PipeableOSProcess is Undeclared) >>>> CommandShell>>scheduleToEvaluate: (ScheduledControllers is Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor class>>fileNamed:inDirectoryPath: (CrLfFileStream is >>>> Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor class>>fileNamed:withLabel: (CrLfFileStream is >>>> Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>bogusTruncate: (CrLfFileStream is Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>fileContentsMenu:shifted: (ParagraphEditor is >>>> Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>getAnotherFileName: (PopUpMenu is Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>getAnotherFileName: (FillInTheBlank is Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>getFileName: (PopUpMenu is Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>getFileName: (FillInTheBlank is Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>mvcWithLabel: (StandardSystemView is Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>mvcWithLabel: (StandardSystemController is Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>mvcWithLabel: (PluggableTextView is Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>put: (CrLfFileStream is Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>put: (CrLfFileStream is Undeclared) >>>> CrLfFileEditor>>saveAs (FillInTheBlank is Undeclared) >>>> CommandShellTranscript>>openLabel: (StandardSystemView is Undeclared) >>>> CommandShellTranscript>>openLabel: (StandardSystemController is >>>> Undeclared) >>>> CommandShellTranscript>>openLabel: (ShellWindowView is Undeclared) >>>> === >>>> >>>> Do I have the correct version ? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Jannik >>>> >>>> 2013/3/29 jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you all. >>>>> >>>>> Jannik >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013/3/28 Holger Hans Peter Freyther <holger(a)freyther.de> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:26:21PM +0100, Camillo Bruni wrote: >>>>>>> The only solution currently is to use OSProcess and >>>>>>> - open under OSX >>>>>>> - gnome-open under linux >>>>>> >>>>>> Please use xdg-open to work on all free desktop implementations. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> ~~Dr. Jannik Laval~~ >>>>> Ãcole des Mines de Douai >>>>> Enseignant-chercheur >>>>> http://www.jannik-laval.eu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ~~Dr. Jannik Laval~~ >>>> Ãcole des Mines de Douai >>>> Enseignant-chercheur >>>> http://www.jannik-laval.eu >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ~~Dr. Jannik Laval~~ >> Ãcole des Mines de Douai >> Enseignant-chercheur >> http://www.jannik-laval.eu >

March 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] [update 3.0] #30016

by Camillo Bruni

why is the new update already in http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/updates/pharo3.0/updates30.list when it is still present in the staged file? http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/updates/pharo3.0/updates30.staged does that mean that the staged update process isn't used properly yet? On 2013-03-29, at 15:33, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > 30016 > ----- > > 10168 Spec new layout management > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10168 > > > Diff information: > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Spec-Layout-StephaneDucasse.… > > > Stef ;) >

March 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC 2013 Modbus was Re: HMI

by Dennis Schetinin

Hello Ben, Just to be short: could I interest you in being second mentor for the Modbus project [1] ? Absolutely yes! I'm not an expert in SCADA systems, but my primary work is a little bit related with this kind of systems, and I was promised to get help and support from one of colleagues who has much more experience with SCADA systems (and used to be a Smalltalker in the past). AFAIK, Modbus is considered a protocol that is old enough to be "slowly getting outdated", but it is still very popular and powerful enough, and will remain it for many years, I believe. Taking into account its simplicity, I can say it is a very good starting point of a Smalltalk-based SCADA. Although, the Amber-MMI project was more about (web-based) UI, I think most of the results we achieved in that project can be applied to SCADA. So, thank you for the offer, I'll be glad to take part in this project. -- Best regards, Dennis Schetinin 2013/3/29 Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> > Hi Dennis, > > We corresponded about this time last year when you where getting the > Amber-MMI GSoC project started. I have just suggested a 2013 GSoC project > [1] to implement the Modbus industrial communications protocol in > Smalltalk. I think it has application to provide a data acquisition layer > for the Amber-MMI project you mentored last year. I believe the > industrial automation sector doesn't need Smalltalk to support a large > number of comms protocols. Modbus together with the Amber-MMI should be > sufficient to crack the chicken-and-egg problem. An optimistic scenario > would be Modbus helping Amber-MMI find a revenue stream from industrial > plant clients, which funds additional requirements for the Amber-MMI, and > as that grows in features it becomes more worthwhile for someone to fund > other industrial protocols. > > I know I did not step-up as a second mentor with you last year - but at > that time I was really not confident in my Smalltalk ability and also I was > working a 60 hour week on a large construction job that was behind > schedule, yet I was wondering.... could I interest you in being second > mentor for the Modbus project [1] ? > Since the past 12 months I am now confident in my Smalltalk programming, > and I have the domain knowledge of configuring and troubleshooting Modbus > from programming PLCs and CitectSCADA as part of my employment. I foresee > I would do most of the leg-work, but I'd like someone with greater OO > experience to advise on best practice OO architecture. A bit more about me > here [2] and also [3]. > > What do you think? > > cheers -ben > > [1] http://gsoc2013.esug.org/**ideas#h-40<http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas#h-40> > [2] http://www.linkedin.com/in/**bencoman<http://www.linkedin.com/in/bencoman> > [3] http://blog.openinworld.com/ > > > On 04/04/1012 Dennis Schetinin wrote: > >> Thank you for the references. >> "Two-tier" here means that UI (in this project) is running in browser. We >> have a server that provides "logic" (model for UI) and a client that just >> represents and allows to control that model (the latter translates those >> control actions into commands for devices it controls). Over the longer >> term, there could be different types of clients (desktop, mobile, etc.). >> >> â¦And one more thing: We see HMI in a wider perspective then just SCADA, >> as this approach (I hope) can be applied to network management, building >> automation, time and attendance etc. All these applications have many >> common aspects and it would great to extract them to an extensible platform >> that allows to build any kind of these systems or even their combinations. >> And I see that Smalltalk is the best tool to build such a platform today >> â¦Except maybe data-acquisition part as it does not have sufficient mass of >> libraries for different protocols. So, in fact I see a three-tier system: >> data-acquisition subsystem, business logic subsystem, and UI subsystem with >> at least two of them written in Smalltalk. >> >> So, that was the inspiration for the project that I suggested to Rustem >> as a term project some time ago and now he translated to the GSoC proposal. >> >> BTW, the project does not have the second mentor yet. >> >> >> Best regards, >> Dennis Schetinin >> Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.**com/?sig<http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig> >> ) >> >> >> On Tuesday, 3 April 2012 Ð³. at 18:54, Ben Coman wrote: >> >> >> >>> I am an electrical engineer whose work includes SCADA programing for >>> operator interfaces of industrial plants using Citect [1] and a bit of >>> Wonderware [2]. Both of these products include very nice sample projects >>> for their tutorials - which would provide a student a good introduction to >>> the functionality required of a HMI development tool. >>> What do you mean two-tier HMI? In my work, tier1 would be a PLC >>> containing the running control model of the plant, providing measured >>> values to the control logic programmed in the PLC and driving relays and >>> actuators. Tier2 is the HMI that provides the mimic of the PLC as a >>> graphical representation of the plant, colourizing warning and alarm >>> conditions, fill levels of tanks and allowing the operator to send >>> commands to the PLC to start machinery. Something doing this based in >>> Smalltalk would be wonderful. >>> [1] http://www2.schneider-**electric.com/sites/corporate/** >>> en/products-services/**automation-control/products-** >>> offer/range-presentation.page?**c_filepath=/templatedata/** >>> Offer_Presentation/3_Range_**Datasheet/data/en/shared/** >>> automation_and_control/citect_**scada.xml#<http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/products-services/aut…> >>> [2] http://global.wonderware.com/**EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.**aspx<http://global.wonderware.com/EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.aspx> >>> Dennis Schetinin wrote: >>> >>> >>>> So, here is the proposal: Name: Khubbatov Rustem >>>> Difficulty Level: Intermediate >>>> Description >>>> A framework for building Human-Machine Interfaces with Pharo back-end >>>> providing model, and presentation front-end in Amber. Technical Details >>>> A concrete task that should be implemented with this project is a >>>> prototype of UI for network management system or SCADA. Server-side (Pharo) >>>> will simulate network components and their data, and provide relevant >>>> events for client (Amber). The latter will present network items, their >>>> state and associated information, and provide UI to control them. An >>>> important part of this system is a communication layer between Amber and >>>> Pharo. >>>> Benefits for the Student >>>> The student will gain experience in building client-server >>>> applications with advanced UI and providing two-way communication between >>>> client and server. >>>> Benefits for the Community >>>> An ability to create highly interactive web-based applications is a >>>> must-have feature for any modern development system. Amber is a bleeding >>>> edge in this area in Smalltalk world. A good communication layer between >>>> Amber and (for example) Pharo is a very appealing decision for building >>>> complex client-server systems. Best regards, >>>> Dennis Schetinin >>>> Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.**com/?sig<http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig> >>>> ) >>>> On Monday, 2 April 2012 Ð³. at 21:47, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Dennis, >>>>> I'd suggest to go ahead. This is first Amber-related project, so it >>>>> seems even more interesting. But hurry up. Let Rustem prepare the proposal >>>>> and you post here then we'll open the project page. >>>>> Best regards >>>>> Janko >>>>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com(mailto: >>>>> chaetal(a)gmail.com)> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Rustem Kkubbatov (http://gsoc2012.esug.org/**rustem-khubbatov<http://gsoc2012.esug.org/rustem-khubbatov>), >>>>>> another student I mentor in Tver State University, decided to try his luck >>>>>> with a project for GSoC. The problem is he can't currently choose a better >>>>>> approach. The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine >>>>>> Interface (HMI) system (which can be used in a wide range of projects) with >>>>>> Pharo image as back-end (where a model lives) and Amber-based client as a >>>>>> front-end. But this thing seems to be "a little bit" too large for GSoC, >>>>>> isn't it? An alternative task could be to build a framework for message >>>>>> exchanging between Pharo and Amber. I could be the first mentor for a >>>>>> project based on original idea, or the second/first (depending on if anyone >>>>>> interested) for communication framework. Any ideas and advices are >>>>>> welcome (ASAP). Thank you in advance. >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Dennis Schetinin >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >

March 29, 2013

[Pharo-project] [update 3.0] #30016

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

30016 ----- 10168 Spec new layout management https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10168 Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/Pharo30/diff/Spec-Layout-StephaneDucasse.… Stef ;)

March 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC 2013 Modbus was Re: HMI

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

Hi guys, Just to know that you have all my support on this project. Getting Smalltalk back into industrial plants (we were already there) is certainly a path to better professionalization and monetization of our efforts as a community. Which then returns back to help to be more live, lively and to earn for live out of our passion. Best regards Janko Dne 29. 03. 2013 14:52, piÅ¡e Ben Coman: > Hi Dennis, > > We corresponded about this time last year when you where getting the > Amber-MMI GSoC project started. I have just suggested a 2013 GSoC > project [1] to implement the Modbus industrial communications protocol > in Smalltalk. I think it has application to provide a data acquisition > layer for the Amber-MMI project you mentored last year. I believe the > industrial automation sector doesn't need Smalltalk to support a large > number of comms protocols. Modbus together with the Amber-MMI should be > sufficient to crack the chicken-and-egg problem. An optimistic scenario > would be Modbus helping Amber-MMI find a revenue stream from industrial > plant clients, which funds additional requirements for the Amber-MMI, > and as that grows in features it becomes more worthwhile for someone to > fund other industrial protocols. > > I know I did not step-up as a second mentor with you last year - but at > that time I was really not confident in my Smalltalk ability and also I > was working a 60 hour week on a large construction job that was behind > schedule, yet I was wondering.... could I interest you in being second > mentor for the Modbus project [1] ? > Since the past 12 months I am now confident in my Smalltalk programming, > and I have the domain knowledge of configuring and troubleshooting > Modbus from programming PLCs and CitectSCADA as part of my employment. > I foresee I would do most of the leg-work, but I'd like someone with > greater OO experience to advise on best practice OO architecture. A bit > more about me here [2] and also [3]. > > What do you think? > > cheers -ben > > [1] http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas#h-40 > [2] http://www.linkedin.com/in/bencoman > [3] http://blog.openinworld.com/ > > > On 04/04/1012 Dennis Schetinin wrote: >> Thank you for the references. >> "Two-tier" here means that UI (in this project) is running in browser. >> We have a server that provides "logic" (model for UI) and a client >> that just represents and allows to control that model (the latter >> translates those control actions into commands for devices it >> controls). Over the longer term, there could be different types of >> clients (desktop, mobile, etc.). >> >> â¦And one more thing: We see HMI in a wider perspective then just >> SCADA, as this approach (I hope) can be applied to network management, >> building automation, time and attendance etc. All these applications >> have many common aspects and it would great to extract them to an >> extensible platform that allows to build any kind of these systems or >> even their combinations. And I see that Smalltalk is the best tool to >> build such a platform today â¦Except maybe data-acquisition part as it >> does not have sufficient mass of libraries for different protocols. >> So, in fact I see a three-tier system: data-acquisition subsystem, >> business logic subsystem, and UI subsystem with at least two of them >> written in Smalltalk. >> >> So, that was the inspiration for the project that I suggested to >> Rustem as a term project some time ago and now he translated to the >> GSoC proposal. >> BTW, the project does not have the second mentor yet. >> >> >> Best regards, >> Dennis Schetinin >> Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) >> >> >> On Tuesday, 3 April 2012 Ð³. at 18:54, Ben Coman wrote: >> >> >>> >>> I am an electrical engineer whose work includes SCADA programing for >>> operator interfaces of industrial plants using Citect [1] and a bit >>> of Wonderware [2]. Both of these products include very nice sample >>> projects for their tutorials - which would provide a student a good >>> introduction to the functionality required of a HMI development tool. >>> >>> What do you mean two-tier HMI? In my work, tier1 would be a PLC >>> containing the running control model of the plant, providing >>> measured values to the control logic programmed in the PLC and >>> driving relays and actuators. Tier2 is the HMI that provides the >>> mimic of the PLC as a graphical representation of the plant, >>> colourizing warning and alarm conditions, fill levels of tanks and >>> allowing the operator to send commands to the PLC to start >>> machinery. Something doing this based in Smalltalk would be wonderful. >>> >>> [1] >>> http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/products-services/aut… >>> >>> >>> [2] http://global.wonderware.com/EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.aspx >>> >>> Dennis Schetinin wrote: >>> >>>> So, here is the proposal: >>>> >>>> Name: Khubbatov Rustem >>>> >>>> >>>> Difficulty Level: Intermediate >>>> >>>> Description >>>> A framework for building Human-Machine Interfaces with Pharo >>>> back-end providing model, and presentation front-end in Amber. >>>> Technical Details >>>> >>>> >>>> A concrete task that should be implemented with this project is a >>>> prototype of UI for network management system or SCADA. Server-side >>>> (Pharo) will simulate network components and their data, and provide >>>> relevant events for client (Amber). The latter will present network >>>> items, their state and associated information, and provide UI to >>>> control them. An important part of this system is a communication >>>> layer between Amber and Pharo. >>>> >>>> >>>> Benefits for the Student >>>> >>>> >>>> The student will gain experience in building client-server >>>> applications with advanced UI and providing two-way communication >>>> between client and server. >>>> >>>> >>>> Benefits for the Community >>>> >>>> An ability to create highly interactive web-based applications is a >>>> must-have feature for any modern development system. Amber is a >>>> bleeding edge in this area in Smalltalk world. A good communication >>>> layer between Amber and (for example) Pharo is a very appealing >>>> decision for building complex client-server systems. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Dennis Schetinin >>>> Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, 2 April 2012 Ð³. at 21:47, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Dennis, >>>>> >>>>> I'd suggest to go ahead. This is first Amber-related project, so it >>>>> seems even more interesting. But hurry up. Let Rustem prepare the >>>>> proposal and you post here then we'll open the project page. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards >>>>> Janko >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com >>>>> (mailto:chaetal@gmail.com)> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Rustem Kkubbatov (http://gsoc2012.esug.org/rustem-khubbatov) >>>>>> another student I mentor in Tver State University, decided to try >>>>>> his luck with a project for GSoC. The problem is he can't >>>>>> currently choose a better approach. >>>>>> The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine Interface >>>>>> (HMI) system (which can be used in a wide range of projects) with >>>>>> Pharo image as back-end (where a model lives) and Amber-based >>>>>> client as a front-end. But this thing seems to be "a little bit" >>>>>> too large for GSoC, isn't it? >>>>>> An alternative task could be to build a framework for message >>>>>> exchanging between Pharo and Amber. I could be the first mentor >>>>>> for a project based on original idea, or the second/first >>>>>> (depending on if anyone interested) for communication framework. >>>>>> Any ideas and advices are welcome (ASAP). Thank you in advance. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Dennis Schetinin >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> > > > > -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

March 29, 2013

[Pharo-project] GSoC 2013 Modbus was Re: HMI

by Ben Coman

Hi Dennis, We corresponded about this time last year when you where getting the Amber-MMI GSoC project started. I have just suggested a 2013 GSoC project [1] to implement the Modbus industrial communications protocol in Smalltalk. I think it has application to provide a data acquisition layer for the Amber-MMI project you mentored last year. I believe the industrial automation sector doesn't need Smalltalk to support a large number of comms protocols. Modbus together with the Amber-MMI should be sufficient to crack the chicken-and-egg problem. An optimistic scenario would be Modbus helping Amber-MMI find a revenue stream from industrial plant clients, which funds additional requirements for the Amber-MMI, and as that grows in features it becomes more worthwhile for someone to fund other industrial protocols. I know I did not step-up as a second mentor with you last year - but at that time I was really not confident in my Smalltalk ability and also I was working a 60 hour week on a large construction job that was behind schedule, yet I was wondering.... could I interest you in being second mentor for the Modbus project [1] ? Since the past 12 months I am now confident in my Smalltalk programming, and I have the domain knowledge of configuring and troubleshooting Modbus from programming PLCs and CitectSCADA as part of my employment. I foresee I would do most of the leg-work, but I'd like someone with greater OO experience to advise on best practice OO architecture. A bit more about me here [2] and also [3]. What do you think? cheers -ben [1] http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas#h-40 [2] http://www.linkedin.com/in/bencoman [3] http://blog.openinworld.com/ On 04/04/1012 Dennis Schetinin wrote: > Thank you for the references. > > "Two-tier" here means that UI (in this project) is running in browser. We have a server that provides "logic" (model for UI) and a client that just represents and allows to control that model (the latter translates those control actions into commands for devices it controls). Over the longer term, there could be different types of clients (desktop, mobile, etc.). > > â¦And one more thing: We see HMI in a wider perspective then just SCADA, as this approach (I hope) can be applied to network management, building automation, time and attendance etc. All these applications have many common aspects and it would great to extract them to an extensible platform that allows to build any kind of these systems or even their combinations. And I see that Smalltalk is the best tool to build such a platform today â¦Except maybe data-acquisition part as it does not have sufficient mass of libraries for different protocols. So, in fact I see a three-tier system: data-acquisition subsystem, business logic subsystem, and UI subsystem with at least two of them written in Smalltalk. > > So, that was the inspiration for the project that I suggested to Rustem as a term project some time ago and now he translated to the GSoC proposal. > > BTW, the project does not have the second mentor yet. > > > Best regards, > Dennis Schetinin > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > On Tuesday, 3 April 2012 Ð³. at 18:54, Ben Coman wrote: > > >> >> I am an electrical engineer whose work includes SCADA programing for >> operator interfaces of industrial plants using Citect [1] and a bit of >> Wonderware [2]. Both of these products include very nice sample >> projects for their tutorials - which would provide a student a good >> introduction to the functionality required of a HMI development tool. >> >> What do you mean two-tier HMI? In my work, tier1 would be a PLC >> containing the running control model of the plant, providing measured >> values to the control logic programmed in the PLC and driving relays and >> actuators. Tier2 is the HMI that provides the mimic of the PLC as a >> graphical representation of the plant, colourizing warning and alarm >> conditions, fill levels of tanks and allowing the operator to send >> commands to the PLC to start machinery. Something doing this based in >> Smalltalk would be wonderful. >> >> [1] >> http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/products-services/aut… >> >> [2] http://global.wonderware.com/EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.aspx >> >> Dennis Schetinin wrote: >> >>> So, here is the proposal: >>> >>> >>> Name: Khubbatov Rustem >>> >>> >>> Difficulty Level: Intermediate >>> >>> Description >>> A framework for building Human-Machine Interfaces with Pharo back-end providing model, and presentation front-end in Amber. >>> >>> Technical Details >>> >>> >>> A concrete task that should be implemented with this project is a prototype of UI for network management system or SCADA. Server-side (Pharo) will simulate network components and their data, and provide relevant events for client (Amber). The latter will present network items, their state and associated information, and provide UI to control them. An important part of this system is a communication layer between Amber and Pharo. >>> >>> >>> Benefits for the Student >>> >>> >>> The student will gain experience in building client-server applications with advanced UI and providing two-way communication between client and server. >>> >>> >>> Benefits for the Community >>> >>> An ability to create highly interactive web-based applications is a must-have feature for any modern development system. Amber is a bleeding edge in this area in Smalltalk world. A good communication layer between Amber and (for example) Pharo is a very appealing decision for building complex client-server systems. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Dennis Schetinin >>> Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) >>> >>> >>> On Monday, 2 April 2012 Ð³. at 21:47, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi Dennis, >>>> >>>> I'd suggest to go ahead. This is first Amber-related project, so it seems even more interesting. But hurry up. Let Rustem prepare the proposal and you post here then we'll open the project page. >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> Janko >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com (mailto:chaetal@gmail.com)> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Rustem Kkubbatov (http://gsoc2012.esug.org/rustem-khubbatov) another student I mentor in Tver State University, decided to try his luck with a project for GSoC. The problem is he can't currently choose a better approach. >>>>> >>>>> The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine Interface (HMI) system (which can be used in a wide range of projects) with Pharo image as back-end (where a model lives) and Amber-based client as a front-end. But this thing seems to be "a little bit" too large for GSoC, isn't it? >>>>> >>>>> An alternative task could be to build a framework for message exchanging between Pharo and Amber. I could be the first mentor for a project based on original idea, or the second/first (depending on if anyone interested) for communication framework. >>>>> >>>>> Any ideas and advices are welcome (ASAP). Thank you in advance. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Dennis Schetinin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >

March 29, 2013