February 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] ZTimestamp[Precise]SNTPClient

by Frank Shearar

On 26 February 2013 19:06, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Frank, > > 2013/2/26 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com>: >> On 26 February 2013 18:33, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> But it is true that GitHub is to SmalltakHub what npm/gem is to...? >> >> No. GitHub and SmalltalkHub are repositories. Rubygems for Ruby (or >> clojars for Clojure, or CPAN for Perl) - are like SqueakMap - catalogs >> that point to packages/applications. > > That's exactly what I said, that GitHub and SmalltalkHub are analogous. > But we also need something like rubygems or npm or CPAN. > > I never used SqueakMap, so I can't tell. But if it is there, why is it > not being used? That's an excellent question, and one that Chris Muller and I would love an answer to. Partly it's because it's old and crufty. It could do with a rewrite, to be honest. But the idea is sound - the one place to go to find packages - and it works _today_. frank

Feb. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] ZTimestamp[Precise]SNTPClient

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Hi Frank, 2013/2/26 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com>: > On 26 February 2013 18:33, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> But it is true that GitHub is to SmalltakHub what npm/gem is to...? > > No. GitHub and SmalltalkHub are repositories. Rubygems for Ruby (or > clojars for Clojure, or CPAN for Perl) - are like SqueakMap - catalogs > that point to packages/applications. That's exactly what I said, that GitHub and SmalltalkHub are analogous. But we also need something like rubygems or npm or CPAN. I never used SqueakMap, so I can't tell. But if it is there, why is it not being used? Regards,

Feb. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] ZTimestamp[Precise]SNTPClient

by Frank Shearar

On 26 February 2013 18:33, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2013/2/26 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >> On Feb 26, 2013, at 5:33 PM, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> If you count the number of packages in SmalltalkHub and compare them >>> to the ones in Npmjs.org, it is impressive how much we have. >> But isn't "package" more like "repository" on smalltalkhub? > > It is a Project, but on the explore screen it says Packages, so... who knows? :) > > But it is true that GitHub is to SmalltakHub what npm/gem is to...? No. GitHub and SmalltalkHub are repositories. Rubygems for Ruby (or clojars for Clojure, or CPAN for Perl) - are like SqueakMap - catalogs that point to packages/applications. frank >>> Of course NPM's user base is two orders of magnitude greater, but we >>> need to start having more killer app "modules", and some sort of >>> guideline for those starting with Pharo and/or Smalltalk. >> And we need a system in the first place like thatâ¦ smalltalkhub is more for code >> repositories, not in itself a repository of installable entities. > > Yes, having packages as "artifacts" is more straightforward than the > configurations and all that jazz. > > The MetaRepo is going in that direction, but I still think that > evaluating the install statements with Gofer or anything similar in a > Workspace is somehow alien for a non smalltalker. > > There should be something that wraps Gofer and works like the apt, npm > or gem commands. > >> So there is a lot of work aheadâ¦ but we will get there. > > No doubts of that. > > > Regards! >

Feb. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] ZTimestamp[Precise]SNTPClient

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 26 Feb 2013, at 17:18, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > On Feb 26, 2013, at 4:57 PM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> I love the complete ecosystem you are step by step building. >> This is so great! > > Yes! Just imagine we continue like thatâ¦ we are now (slowly, slowly) reaching a point > where for the first time we can really build on top of the foundation we did. > > One central idea behind Pharo was to so we can do better on top of what we did. > The effect we will get from that will be very interesting. Until now we have seen almost > nothing, but now we are entering a phase where the difference will be not very pronounced > but visible if you look for it. > > Reflective improvement, leading to a feedback loopâ¦ and thus non-linear effects. > I know that some people are laughing about this, but I really believe in it :-) > > Marcus Yes, that is certainly true. But there is not only a technical feedback loop with non linear effects, there is also a human and community reinforcement and accelleration going on that is really, really impressive. There are so many sub projects in/on Pharo, actually way too many to enumerate. They each directly or indirectly help or facilitate the others, spreading knowledge, creating Smalltalkers all over the world doing amazing stuff on the same base system. Sven -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill

Feb. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] ZTimestamp[Precise]SNTPClient

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2013/2/26 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > On Feb 26, 2013, at 5:33 PM, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> If you count the number of packages in SmalltalkHub and compare them >> to the ones in Npmjs.org, it is impressive how much we have. > But isn't "package" more like "repository" on smalltalkhub? It is a Project, but on the explore screen it says Packages, so... who knows? :) But it is true that GitHub is to SmalltakHub what npm/gem is to...? >> Of course NPM's user base is two orders of magnitude greater, but we >> need to start having more killer app "modules", and some sort of >> guideline for those starting with Pharo and/or Smalltalk. > And we need a system in the first place like thatâ¦ smalltalkhub is more for code > repositories, not in itself a repository of installable entities. Yes, having packages as "artifacts" is more straightforward than the configurations and all that jazz. The MetaRepo is going in that direction, but I still think that evaluating the install statements with Gofer or anything similar in a Workspace is somehow alien for a non smalltalker. There should be something that wraps Gofer and works like the apt, npm or gem commands. > So there is a lot of work aheadâ¦ but we will get there. No doubts of that. Regards!

Feb. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] fast #becomeForward: crashes without PharoV10.sources

by Eliot Miranda

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 4:13 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > we should reafctor the code for changing the method's trailer (source > pointer) to > avoid using #become: at all. > this won't deal with VM bug per se, but at least prevent it from > triggering. > No, that makes little sense. Instead provide me with a reproducible case and I'll fix it quickly. I fixed the case form last week in one day. Become: should work, but I can't fix things if I can't reproduce the bugs. So please take the time to produce an image that crashes from start-up. > > On 25 February 2013 23:26, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > he is talking about some chrashes that happens fast, when you do become > :) > > > > nothing about "fast become" > > > > On Feb 25, 2013, at 10:26 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > mmm what do you mean by "fast becomeForward:" ? > > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> While setting up the new multi platform VM tests I saw that the tests > fail > >> extremely quickly > >> when there are not PharoV10.sources available. > >> > >> It is still our know #becomeForward: but on CompiledMethods, but I just > >> want to share that. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- best, Eliot

Feb. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] ZTimestamp[Precise]SNTPClient

by stephane ducasse

Serge what is important is to produce configuration for the projects. We are working on a tool to help us with that but this is not ready yet. >> > > This is a great strength of programming languages like Ruby or JavaScript/Node > to propose large repositories of packages that could be installed very > easily with all the correct dependencies. > > Nice to see that thanks to the guys from INRIA (and more generally > from the community), the Pharo ecosystem is following the same way. I > also agree with Marcus that the day will come where the progress will > be more visible. > > I'm currently on the way to move all my packages from SqueakSource to > SmalltalkHub. > > Regards, > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://doesnotunderstand.org/ >

Feb. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] ZTimestamp[Precise]SNTPClient

by stephane ducasse

I like a lot this prediction and we will see that it will start to happen in Pharo3.0 Stef On Feb 26, 2013, at 5:18 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Feb 26, 2013, at 4:57 PM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> I love the complete ecosystem you are step by step building. >> This is so great! >> > > Yes! Just imagine we continue like thatâ¦ we are now (slowly, slowly) reaching a point > where for the first time we can really build on top of the foundation we did. > > One central idea behind Pharo was to so we can do better on top of what we did. > The effect we will get from that will be very interesting. Until now we have seen almost > nothing, but now we are entering a phase where the difference will be not very pronounced > but visible if you look for it. > > Reflective improvement, leading to a feedback loopâ¦ and thus non-linear effects. > I know that some people are laughing about this, but I really believe in it :-) > > Marcus > > > > > >

Feb. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] ZTimestamp[Precise]SNTPClient

by Serge Stinckwich

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Feb 26, 2013, at 5:33 PM, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> 2013/2/26 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >>> >>> On Feb 26, 2013, at 4:57 PM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> >>>> I love the complete ecosystem you are step by step building. >>>> This is so great! >> >>> Yes! Just imagine we continue like thatâ¦ we are now (slowly, slowly) reaching a point >>> where for the first time we can really build on top of the foundation we did. >> >> If you count the number of packages in SmalltalkHub and compare them >> to the ones in Npmjs.org, it is impressive how much we have. > > But isn't "package" more like "repository" on smalltalkhub? > >> Of course NPM's user base is two orders of magnitude greater, but we >> need to start having more killer app "modules", and some sort of >> guideline for those starting with Pharo and/or Smalltalk. >> > > And we need a system in the first place like thatâ¦ smalltalkhub is more for code > repositories, not in itself a repository of installable entities. > > So there is a lot of work aheadâ¦ but we will get there. This is a great strength of programming languages like Ruby or JavaScript/Node to propose large repositories of packages that could be installed very easily with all the correct dependencies. Nice to see that thanks to the guys from INRIA (and more generally from the community), the Pharo ecosystem is following the same way. I also agree with Marcus that the day will come where the progress will be more visible. I'm currently on the way to move all my packages from SqueakSource to SmalltalkHub. Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

Feb. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] ZTimestamp[Precise]SNTPClient

by Marcus Denker

On Feb 26, 2013, at 5:33 PM, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2013/2/26 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >> >> On Feb 26, 2013, at 4:57 PM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >>> I love the complete ecosystem you are step by step building. >>> This is so great! > >> Yes! Just imagine we continue like thatâ¦ we are now (slowly, slowly) reaching a point >> where for the first time we can really build on top of the foundation we did. > > If you count the number of packages in SmalltalkHub and compare them > to the ones in Npmjs.org, it is impressive how much we have. But isn't "package" more like "repository" on smalltalkhub? > Of course NPM's user base is two orders of magnitude greater, but we > need to start having more killer app "modules", and some sort of > guideline for those starting with Pharo and/or Smalltalk. > And we need a system in the first place like thatâ¦ smalltalkhub is more for code repositories, not in itself a repository of installable entities. So there is a lot of work aheadâ¦ but we will get there. Marcus

Feb. 26, 2013