December 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by kilon alios

I do feel that this issue fall more under the jurisdiction of Exception Handling, where if something bad happens to your system the whole thing does not collapse on itself but rather reports the error and carries on. Pharo processes are not OS processes, correct me if I am wrong but they dont have their own memory or can get their own core and generally are not separate entities. They are not even real threads. So I doubt how much of a protection they will offer. But agree with your its a design issue that sooner or later will have to be addressed. If the systems is very complex , then later is more likely. On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > Yes, This is a nice idea, but I was telling about the other thing. Itâs > really simple to start a new process in Pharo. Maybe we should introduce > common practices in pharo? When I was following Obj-C course, one of the > fundamental thing that was taught: do time consuming tasks in the other > process. So I want to write a chapter on the concurrent programming in > Pharo, but is question is: am I missing something? Because this looks quite > trivial. > > Uko > > > On 02 Dec 2013, at 14:21, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Sidenote about this. > > > > I don't know about this particular problem you faced with Nautilus. > > But the issue is "unfixable", IMHO, because everything runs in the > > same process. > > > > So there is no way to stop the current active process if it is REALLY > > stuck (100% CPU, 1 CORE). If it gets into an infinite unbreakable > > loop, or indefinitely blocking on I/O, then the entire VM gets > > unresponsive. > > > > For that reason I think that nothing should run in the UI Thread > > (which in Pharo is the main thread), except for event handling and > > rendering. Or... the VM should notice abnormal processes eating a lot > > of resources and warn the user. > > > > That's one nice feature of Smalltalk/X, every windows runs its own > > thread, with its own event queue, etc. You can kill it safely, without > > trowing away the whole image. > > > > Regards! > > > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > > > > 2013/12/2 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: > >> Hi guys, I have some thoughts about how we develop for Pharo. > >> > >> I was doing something in in Nautilus, and it started rising errors, > which is ok (well, itâs not ok, but this happens during so rapid > development). But then I clicked on something in Nautilus and ended up in > the infinite loop. Shouldnât we develop our tools in a more friendly way? > When my finder freezes I donât have to restart OS X, but when Nautilus > freezes I have to restart Pharo. > >> > >> Uko > > > > >

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2013/12/2 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > yes, tocayo, you are right... but there is a design problem since ever and > fix that will not be easy. > > Also, there is the notion of "main thread" internal to pharo, and the "main > thread" relative to the OS. And AFAIK, the vm runs in the main thread (in > mac there is a line to uncomment for moving out main thread, but they were a > problem with certain callbacks who prevent me to use it... but well, we > should review that too). I know it's not easy, in fact I think it is hard. But I wanted to point this out. :) I barely know about how Windows processes work, so I can't speak about how to do it in Windows, Linux or MacOS. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Nautilus Tree

by kilon alios

no its not , this blog post is about extending existing classes with new methods that are stored to other packages instead of creating subclasses. My point is about offering multiple names (not just one) to existing methods and classes, plus tags to further identify the methods so it is much easier to find the method you want or make your code more readable. My approach does not generate new methods, it does not touch existing objects , nor make the system more complicated. I see it more like a database to help you find things. But thanks for the link anyway , now I know how to make extension classes. On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 3:34 PM, <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > kilon alios wrote: > >> >> Lets say you dont like the names used for some classes and methods. Why >> go through the tedious process of subclassing and creating your own methods >> that call superclass methods just so you have better names for those >> methods. Just go in and add new names for those methods, while they keep >> their old ones. Name clashing ? no problemo, use tags as identifiers that >> will help you separate methods with same names. >> > Sounds a bit (but not quite) like package "extensions" per the top half of > [1]. > [1] http://seandenigris.com/blog/?p=1015 > > cheers -ben > > > > > >

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Nautilus Tree

by btc＠openinworld.com

kilon alios wrote: > > Lets say you dont like the names used for some classes and methods. > Why go through the tedious process of subclassing and creating your > own methods that call superclass methods just so you have better names > for those methods. Just go in and add new names for those methods, > while they keep their old ones. Name clashing ? no problemo, use tags > as identifiers that will help you separate methods with same names. Sounds a bit (but not quite) like package "extensions" per the top half of [1]. [1] http://seandenigris.com/blog/?p=1015 cheers -ben

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by Yuriy Tymchuk

Yes, This is a nice idea, but I was telling about the other thing. Itâs really simple to start a new process in Pharo. Maybe we should introduce common practices in pharo? When I was following Obj-C course, one of the fundamental thing that was taught: do time consuming tasks in the other process. So I want to write a chapter on the concurrent programming in Pharo, but is question is: am I missing something? Because this looks quite trivial. Uko On 02 Dec 2013, at 14:21, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Sidenote about this. > > I don't know about this particular problem you faced with Nautilus. > But the issue is "unfixable", IMHO, because everything runs in the > same process. > > So there is no way to stop the current active process if it is REALLY > stuck (100% CPU, 1 CORE). If it gets into an infinite unbreakable > loop, or indefinitely blocking on I/O, then the entire VM gets > unresponsive. > > For that reason I think that nothing should run in the UI Thread > (which in Pharo is the main thread), except for event handling and > rendering. Or... the VM should notice abnormal processes eating a lot > of resources and warn the user. > > That's one nice feature of Smalltalk/X, every windows runs its own > thread, with its own event queue, etc. You can kill it safely, without > trowing away the whole image. > > Regards! > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2013/12/2 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: >> Hi guys, I have some thoughts about how we develop for Pharo. >> >> I was doing something in in Nautilus, and it started rising errors, which is ok (well, itâs not ok, but this happens during so rapid development). But then I clicked on something in Nautilus and ended up in the infinite loop. Shouldnât we develop our tools in a more friendly way? When my finder freezes I donât have to restart OS X, but when Nautilus freezes I have to restart Pharo. >> >> Uko >

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by Esteban Lorenzano

yes, tocayo, you are right... but there is a design problem since ever and fix that will not be easy. Also, there is the notion of "main thread" internal to pharo, and the "main thread" relative to the OS. And AFAIK, the vm runs in the main thread (in mac there is a line to uncomment for moving out main thread, but they were a problem with certain callbacks who prevent me to use it... but well, we should review that too). Esteban On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Sidenote about this. > > I don't know about this particular problem you faced with Nautilus. > But the issue is "unfixable", IMHO, because everything runs in the > same process. > > So there is no way to stop the current active process if it is REALLY > stuck (100% CPU, 1 CORE). If it gets into an infinite unbreakable > loop, or indefinitely blocking on I/O, then the entire VM gets > unresponsive. > > For that reason I think that nothing should run in the UI Thread > (which in Pharo is the main thread), except for event handling and > rendering. Or... the VM should notice abnormal processes eating a lot > of resources and warn the user. > > That's one nice feature of Smalltalk/X, every windows runs its own > thread, with its own event queue, etc. You can kill it safely, without > trowing away the whole image. > > Regards! > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2013/12/2 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: > > Hi guys, I have some thoughts about how we develop for Pharo. > > > > I was doing something in in Nautilus, and it started rising errors, > which is ok (well, itâs not ok, but this happens during so rapid > development). But then I clicked on something in Nautilus and ended up in > the infinite loop. Shouldnât we develop our tools in a more friendly way? > When my finder freezes I donât have to restart OS X, but when Nautilus > freezes I have to restart Pharo. > > > > Uko > >

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Sidenote about this. I don't know about this particular problem you faced with Nautilus. But the issue is "unfixable", IMHO, because everything runs in the same process. So there is no way to stop the current active process if it is REALLY stuck (100% CPU, 1 CORE). If it gets into an infinite unbreakable loop, or indefinitely blocking on I/O, then the entire VM gets unresponsive. For that reason I think that nothing should run in the UI Thread (which in Pharo is the main thread), except for event handling and rendering. Or... the VM should notice abnormal processes eating a lot of resources and warn the user. That's one nice feature of Smalltalk/X, every windows runs its own thread, with its own event queue, etc. You can kill it safely, without trowing away the whole image. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2013/12/2 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: > Hi guys, I have some thoughts about how we develop for Pharo. > > I was doing something in in Nautilus, and it started rising errors, which is ok (well, itâs not ok, but this happens during so rapid development). But then I clicked on something in Nautilus and ended up in the infinite loop. Shouldnât we develop our tools in a more friendly way? When my finder freezes I donât have to restart OS X, but when Nautilus freezes I have to restart Pharo. > > Uko

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Similarity Matrix

by Tudor Girba

Very cool! Doru On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>wrote: > Hi! > > I know some of you are working on DSM-kind of matrix. Oscar has been > working on a similarity matrix for Roassal. I just want to share a > self-explanble screenshot with you guys. > > > On this example, the methods of the subclasses of Set are compared between > themselves. > Black dot is a couple (m1, m2) that are very similar > > More on > https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.550677725018829.1073741833.340543… > > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by Marcus Denker

On 02 Dec 2013, at 14:03, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > Hi guys, I have some thoughts about how we develop for Pharo. > > I was doing something in in Nautilus, and it started rising errors, which is ok (well, itâs not ok, but this happens during so rapid development). But then I clicked on something in Nautilus and ended up in the infinite loop. Shouldnât we develop our tools in a more friendly way? When my finder freezes I donât have to restart OS X, but when Nautilus freezes I have to restart Pharo. > this is the same as saying âI have an idea for developing pharo: We should stop introducing bugsâ. So: yes. Please do. ;-) Marcus

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Some squeaksource.com updates

by David T. Lewis

On Sun, Dec 01, 2013 at 07:11:59PM -0800, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > David T. Lewis wrote > > The welcome page for http://squeaksource.com has been updated... The > > policy of disabling new project creation remains in effect. > > Thanks! It is good that so much of our history will remain accessible... > > "create any number of projects to host on our server" should probably be > removed > Thanks Sean, I fixed it. Dave

Dec. 2, 2013