December 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] It would be too expensive to add a description for packages in Configuration Browser?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> I agree (see attached screenshot). I have added the button but the thing is: Package can be fetched from the repository, but there is no package description. There are only textual descriptions of commits. If you have a look at the packages I maintain I added catalog metadata to htem and I generate automatically https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoProjectCatalog/HTML_Report/? Now this would require to load all the configruatiion files in the images and this is not what you want. > > So anyone see any workaround here? What we could do is to extend the catalog builder server to emit STON files in addition to the html one and the browser could just load these files without having to download all the configurationOf. If somebody want to help, the code of the catalog builder is available and the jenkins job up and running here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoProjectCatalog/ > > > I would rather see: > 1. Either a simple hosted seaside app "Pharo Store" that one can use to > register a config for a specific pharo version (similar like squeakmap) > maybe directly from the STHub interface with description, ... > > This app can be queried by the config browser (JSON/XML/Fuel/...) > to display infos on the package, maybe also a rating about downloads, ... > > 2. Or a general mechanism that loads the configs, runs tests and if > OK provides them for the config browser as "yes these config really work" > > > Absolutely. Configurations should be certified. > > > HernÃ¡n > > > <Configuration browser.png>

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since there > are no "big" announcements or advertising for it. > ObjectConnect follows the "time is better invested into technology" strategy. > It is one of the most interesting Smalltalks ever implemented. http://www.objectconnect.com/stmt_overview.htm I like the idea that you can get 50kb applications. Now since this is a closed system and windows-centric. But I like that it shows that Smalltalk does not have to be the image centric way. > > The newest ST/MT 6.3 version (now 64 bit) is from end of November 2013 Now it is not a community thing. :) And the web site stop and 5.6 in 2009. Last time I talk to tarrick he told me that he could control the "no gc in the next 250 frames on PS2" but it was in 1998 :) Stef

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] It would be too expensive to add a description for packages in Configuration Browser?

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hi Torsten, 2013/12/8 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> > The reason is simple: when I wrote the config browser > there was no such additional description on the configs itself > and one would have to load the config into the image first. > > Think of 2000 config's (note each is a package) loading in the future when > the config browser opens. This will take ages. I think this is not good > since the app should be responsive. > > Maybe a "show details" button helps when the package is selected. > > I agree (see attached screenshot). I have added the button but the thing is: Package can be fetched from the repository, but there is no package description. There are only textual descriptions of commits. So anyone see any workaround here? > > I would rather see: > 1. Either a simple hosted seaside app "Pharo Store" that one can use to > register a config for a specific pharo version (similar like squeakmap) > maybe directly from the STHub interface with description, ... > > This app can be queried by the config browser (JSON/XML/Fuel/...) > to display infos on the package, maybe also a rating about downloads, > ... > > 2. Or a general mechanism that loads the configs, runs tests and if > OK provides them for the config browser as "yes these config really > work" > > Absolutely. Configurations should be certified. HernÃ¡n

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by Marcus Denker

On 08 Dec 2013, at 21:47, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 08 Dec 2013, at 21:44, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > >>> Is Smalltalk/MT still "alive"? >> >> Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since there >> are no "big" announcements or advertising for it. > > For me this is a nice way of saying âits deadâ. I am sure I will not put a link to this at esug.org: http://www.objectconnect.com Webrings? I mean seriously: What does this website communicate? âWe are irrelevant and oldâ. Marcus

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by Marcus Denker

On 08 Dec 2013, at 21:44, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: >> Is Smalltalk/MT still "alive"? > > Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since there > are no "big" announcements or advertising for it. For me this is a nice way of saying âits deadâ. > ObjectConnect follows the "time is better invested into technology" strategy. > It is one of the most interesting Smalltalks ever implemented. > > The newest ST/MT 6.3 version (now 64 bit) is from end of November 2013 > and nobody thinks that this needs to be announced? I really do not understand. Marcus

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by Torsten Bergmann

> Is Smalltalk/MT still "alive"? Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since there are no "big" announcements or advertising for it. ObjectConnect follows the "time is better invested into technology" strategy. It is one of the most interesting Smalltalks ever implemented. The newest ST/MT 6.3 version (now 64 bit) is from end of November 2013 Bye T.

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Is Smalltalk/MT still "alive"? I remember them as the only Smalltalk dialect having in-process COM servers, whilst Dolphin only had out of process. I think they also had realtime and threading features no other Smalltalk, at that time, had. Regards, Esteban A. Maringolo 2013/12/8 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: > Usually plugins for CAD programs have to be running in-process. > Pharo is not (at least not without further work) running in a DLL > as by default it runs as an own OS process. > > There once was a plugin for Netscape and one for IE running > Squeak VM as a in-process plugin in the browser - so its technically possible > but not out of the box. > > If you want to use Smalltalk for extending CAD programs with > a DLL then you should give "Smalltalk/MT" from ObjectConnect a try > as it is able to build DLL's and OCX/ActiveX components and > already provides the native support (Graphics, Debugging, ...) > > Have fun > Torsten > >> Gesendet: Sonntag, 08. Dezember 2013 um 19:20 Uhr >> Von: askoh <askoh(a)askoh.com> >> An: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org >> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World >> >> Good that NativeBoost can do what the paper says. How does one debug Pharo >> and NativeBoost working together? Can one step in Pharo, encounter >> NativeBoost code, the step in C and return to Pharo? >> >> I would like to create addins for CAD programs (Windows for now). The CAD >> program starts and calls the addin to be part of the CAD program. User >> interactions within the CAD are passed to the addin which then drives the >> data or display in the CAD. The addin is a separate DLL or EXE but the user >> sees only the CAD with extra capabilities - not as distinct programs. Can >> Pharo make such an addin? >> >> Thanks, >> Aik-Siong Koh >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-in-a-C-World-tp4728217p4728573.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by Torsten Bergmann

Usually plugins for CAD programs have to be running in-process. Pharo is not (at least not without further work) running in a DLL as by default it runs as an own OS process. There once was a plugin for Netscape and one for IE running Squeak VM as a in-process plugin in the browser - so its technically possible but not out of the box. If you want to use Smalltalk for extending CAD programs with a DLL then you should give "Smalltalk/MT" from ObjectConnect a try as it is able to build DLL's and OCX/ActiveX components and already provides the native support (Graphics, Debugging, ...) Have fun Torsten > Gesendet: Sonntag, 08. Dezember 2013 um 19:20 Uhr > Von: askoh <askoh(a)askoh.com> > An: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org > Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World > > Good that NativeBoost can do what the paper says. How does one debug Pharo > and NativeBoost working together? Can one step in Pharo, encounter > NativeBoost code, the step in C and return to Pharo? > > I would like to create addins for CAD programs (Windows for now). The CAD > program starts and calls the addin to be part of the CAD program. User > interactions within the CAD are passed to the addin which then drives the > data or display in the CAD. The addin is a separate DLL or EXE but the user > sees only the CAD with extra capabilities - not as distinct programs. Can > Pharo make such an addin? > > Thanks, > Aik-Siong Koh > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-in-a-C-World-tp4728217p4728573.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by kilon alios

Sort answer is no , Pharo does not try to replace C/C++. CAD plugins are indeed dlls and you will need C/C++ for that. I only Know Free Pascal as another language to generate DLLs but even in that case its extra work. So if you look for the most direct solution then Pharo wont cut it and probably most other programming languages. Theoretically of course its possible , but someone would need to implement this to make it easy to do and currently AFAIK none has. Bare in mind that DLLs are strictly a C/C++ invention and definitely not how highly dynamic languages like Pharo work so there is no direct need for Pharo to do such thing cause it would complicate the workflow. For instance you would not want to create a dll for pharo code when you can have an image and live object that offer far more flexibility of code that can modify itself even on runtime. People choose dynamic languages for the very reason that want to avoid such complications and limitations. If you dont mind workarounds the then answer changes from "no" to "yes". You could of course create a CAD plugin that triggers pharo and pass information to it through sockets , pipes or other ways of application communication. Its a workaround but it works and I have seen it used in 3d apps. For example in blender that support mainly python addons , I know of a python addon (city generator addon) that uses Java libraries. In this case you create a "bridge" between your CAD application and Pharo and you make the two work together. The good news is that if Pharo crashes , it wont crash your CAD app so that a good thing about this workaround. The bad news is that you would be responsible to expose the CAD functionality to Pharo meaning you will have to create a bridge between pharo and CAD. Of course you will need to expose only the functionality that your plugin uses to Pharo so its not as hard as it may sound. To paraphrase a favorite quote "good coders invent , great coders cheat " ;) So yes there definetly many roads that lead to Rome. If you are determined to use Pharo nothing will stop you. About debugging nativeboost of course you can use the pharo debugger because nativeboost commands are fully pharo compliant , meaning they are like everything else, messages and objects. For the machine code generated by nativeboost you can use a C debugger like gdb that could let you disassemble the code to see whats wrong with it. Though usually you will just ask here and Igor that is the expert and creator of nativeboost will reply back. He is very helpful and never turns down a question ;) On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 8:20 PM, askoh <askoh(a)askoh.com> wrote: > Good that NativeBoost can do what the paper says. How does one debug Pharo > and NativeBoost working together? Can one step in Pharo, encounter > NativeBoost code, the step in C and return to Pharo? > > I would like to create addins for CAD programs (Windows for now). The CAD > program starts and calls the addin to be part of the CAD program. User > interactions within the CAD are passed to the addin which then drives the > data or display in the CAD. The addin is a separate DLL or EXE but the user > sees only the CAD with extra capabilities - not as distinct programs. Can > Pharo make such an addin? > > Thanks, > Aik-Siong Koh > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-in-a-C-World-tp4728217p4728573.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Searchbar in the browser

by Usman Bhatti

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 4:41 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > On Dec 8, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > You may have noticed that Nautilus now has a search bar next to the list > of packages. I personally find this extremely useful. This is the work of > Juraj and he is interested in hearing your feedback. > > > > The textfield accepts regular expression. It means that entering > âRoassalâ will display all the packages having the word âRoassalâ in it > (e.g., RoassalExtra, ConfigurationOfRoassal). If I enter â^Roassalâ, it > displays all the packages that begin with âRoassalâ. (e.g., RoassalExtra). > > > > Any idea how to make this feature more apparent? Anything else you want > to see with the searching in the browser? > > I would love to have the search bar searching also based on class name > Maybe -Point > could select the package that contains the class Point > -Point* > could select the package that contains the classes *Point* > +1. I could not get used to spotlight search (may be i am too lazy). But this would definitely help and I remember some earlier browser had it, and I used it so often. But then it was removed and I could never get accustomed to the new ways. > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > >

Dec. 8, 2013