November 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Patches for Pharo packages you are maintaining

by Lorenz KÃ¶hl

>>> So registering on Pharo tracker *never* worked for me, since I try, >>> before the summer. >> In the end I think is was a mistake to use fogbugz. For sure itâs nice for companies, but >> for open sourse projects it just does not work with a closed bug tracker. >> >> Now the question is what is the effort to move to yet another one? > I do not like fogbugz but I would not change now. > Let us > - make it easy for people to log The Racket programming language (racket-lang.org) has in its IDE DrRacket a menu item - Submit bug report Details about the system and a description of the bug is gathered and sent of to a bugs mailing list as well as creating an issue in a bug tracker. This way you get the issue number, a possible discussion thread about the bug/enhancement and any user can take part. IMHO this is the _right_ way to do it. Is there something similar for pharo? Contributing changes this way might get more complicated though, but possible.

Nov. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Patches for Pharo packages you are maintaining

by Torsten Bergmann

> I do not like fogbugz but I would not change now. > Let us > - make it easy for people to log > - remove this ugly monkey pictures (I do not like it - do you think that people can understand anything with it. > - get a newer version of smalltalkhub > and continue. > > Stef + 1 Bye T.

Nov. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Patches for Pharo packages you are maintaining

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>>> >> >> So registering on Pharo tracker *never* worked for me, since I try, >> before the summer. >> > > In the end I think is was a mistake to use fogbugz. For sure itâs nice for companies, but > for open sourse projects it just does not work with a closed bug tracker. > > Now the question is what is the effort to move to yet another one? I do not like fogbugz but I would not change now. Let us - make it easy for people to log - remove this ugly monkey pictures (I do not like it - do you think that people can understand anything with it. - get a newer version of smalltalkhub and continue. Stef

Nov. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Patches for Pharo packages you are maintaining

by kilon alios

*cough github cough* *** runs away *** On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com>wrote: > > On 2013-11-23, at 21:49, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 2013-11-23, at 21:45, Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire.fernandes(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Le 23/11/2013 21:24, Camillo Bruni a Ã©crit : > >>> It is all there: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W41 > >>> > >>> I was even so lazy that I made a video ;) since there are so many > nasty steps > >>> involved that I don't think text will do it. > >> > >> > >> Already saw the menu of this video and did not fell related to my > >> concern. Btw I can't watch video from VIMEO, maybe my ISP, I have to > >> download it. > > > > weird... I could mirror it on youtube, but then again that just adds > > yet another point of confusion, does it? > > > >> Got it anyway. Well the 'Press the forgot password' link could be > >> written somewhere, it will not hurt. > > > > that solves one out of 20 little steps, so just writing down that part > > is not very useful I think. > > > > see https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11550/ > > so yes, maybe show that link on the registration page under > http://bugs.pharo.org > ... but somebody has to do it ;) >

Nov. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Slot class builder: Anonymous class modification

by Camille Teruel

On 23 nov. 2013, at 20:58, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Camille, > > What is an anonymous class for you? because it could refer to a lightweight class or a metaclass... A class that is not installed in the system dictionary, typically generated. As pointed by Igor, that's not a very good name since such a class does have a name, it's just not accessible by simply using that name in code, you need to have a reference to it. However, as pointed by Eliot, that's the name used for two decades now. So in the end, metaclasses are more anonymous than anonymous classes :D > > Cheers, > > HernÃ¡n > > El 22/11/2013 12:04, Camille Teruel escribiÃ³: >> Hi everyone, >> >> With Esteban, we bumped into a problem with anonymous subclasses and the slot class builder. >> The problem is that once an anonymous class is created is not possible to modify it. >> Here is the problem: >> For creating an anonymous class with the new class builder API you do something like: >> >> myAnonymousClass := AnonymousClassInstaller make: [ :classBuilder | >> classBuilder >> superclass: Object; >> name: #MyAnonymousClass; >> .... ] >> >> What happens is that the class builder asks the class installer if the class named #MyAnonymousClass exists or not to know if this a class to be created or to be modified. >> Here, the strategy of the anonymous class installer is to always answer no. So ok, now you have you're anonymous class. >> But what happens when you do something like: >> >> myAnonymousClass addInstVarNamed: #newIV >> >> Since the class has no clue of what class installer was used to create it, it instantiate a new one, and a PharoClassInstaller ! >> This new class installer then says to the class builder that there is no class named MyAnonymousClass so it creates it! And it install it in the system dictionary! >> And myAnonymousClass is not modified. >> >> So there is several problem here: >> - a class doesn't know which class installer was used to create it >> - even if the class would know that, the anonymous class installer would always say that it doesn't know it and a new class would be created >> >> So one possible solution for that is to have one class installer per environment (so add one iv in SystemDictionary right now), like that a class would know what class installer was used to create it. >> What would happen then is that you don't create anonymous classes anymore, that is to say a class not installed in any environment, but instead you create a class that exist in an environment separated from the system dictionary. >> >> What do you think? >> >> >> . >> > >

Nov. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Patches for Pharo packages you are maintaining

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-11-23, at 21:49, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 2013-11-23, at 21:45, Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire.fernandes(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Le 23/11/2013 21:24, Camillo Bruni a Ã©crit : >>> It is all there: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W41 >>> >>> I was even so lazy that I made a video ;) since there are so many nasty steps >>> involved that I don't think text will do it. >> >> >> Already saw the menu of this video and did not fell related to my >> concern. Btw I can't watch video from VIMEO, maybe my ISP, I have to >> download it. > > weird... I could mirror it on youtube, but then again that just adds > yet another point of confusion, does it? > >> Got it anyway. Well the 'Press the forgot password' link could be >> written somewhere, it will not hurt. > > that solves one out of 20 little steps, so just writing down that part > is not very useful I think. > > see https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11550/ so yes, maybe show that link on the registration page under http://bugs.pharo.org ... but somebody has to do it ;)

Nov. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Patches for Pharo packages you are maintaining

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-11-23, at 21:45, Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire.fernandes(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Le 23/11/2013 21:24, Camillo Bruni a Ã©crit : >> It is all there: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W41 >> >> I was even so lazy that I made a video ;) since there are so many nasty steps >> involved that I don't think text will do it. > > > Already saw the menu of this video and did not fell related to my > concern. Btw I can't watch video from VIMEO, maybe my ISP, I have to > download it. weird... I could mirror it on youtube, but then again that just adds yet another point of confusion, does it? > Got it anyway. Well the 'Press the forgot password' link could be > written somewhere, it will not hurt. that solves one out of 20 little steps, so just writing down that part is not very useful I think. see https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11550/

Nov. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Patches for Pharo packages you are maintaining

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-11-23, at 21:35, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 23 Nov 2013, at 21:25, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> On 2013-11-23, at 11:02, Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire.fernandes(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Le 23/11/2013 09:51, Camillo Bruni a Ã©crit : >>>> opened https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12229/XML-Tools-improvement otherwise these changes are as good as lost. >>>> sending mcz via mail is from the last century. >>> >>> Hello >>> >>> In the welcome page of the bug tracker, add a page explaining how to >>> create by yourself an account. >> >> It is all there: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W41 >> >> I was even so lazy that I made a video ;) since there are so many nasty steps >> involved that I don't think text will do it. > > and it should be noted that the scheme we use is not the way it is because we think itâs perfect. > > This is really strange that people always pre-suppose that whatever is done is done with indefinite > resources and therefore by definition exactly what was wanted. To the contrary: we just make it up as > we go along, with very limited resources, sometimes doing wrong decisions.. and we will slowly improve. > > And no, just stopping until the process is perfect is *not* they way to go. This will just lead to nothing happening, > not to perfection. ... and we're one step closer: I removed some noise from the fogbugz entry page to guide people to the right direction.

Nov. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Patches for Pharo packages you are maintaining

by Frank Shearar

On 23 November 2013 20:35, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 23 Nov 2013, at 21:25, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> On 2013-11-23, at 11:02, Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire.fernandes(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Le 23/11/2013 09:51, Camillo Bruni a Ã©crit : >>>> opened https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12229/XML-Tools-improvement otherwise these changes are as good as lost. >>>> sending mcz via mail is from the last century. >>> >>> Hello >>> >>> In the welcome page of the bug tracker, add a page explaining how to >>> create by yourself an account. >> >> It is all there: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W41 >> >> I was even so lazy that I made a video ;) since there are so many nasty steps >> involved that I don't think text will do it. > > and it should be noted that the scheme we use is not the way it is because we think itâs perfect. > > This is really strange that people always pre-suppose that whatever is done is done with indefinite > resources and therefore by definition exactly what was wanted. To the contrary: we just make it up as > we go along, with very limited resources, sometimes doing wrong decisions.. and we will slowly improve. > > And no, just stopping until the process is perfect is *not* they way to go. This will just lead to nothing happening, > not to perfection. Or, the way to perfect the process is to use the existing process, and smooth off the rough edges, just like is happening. frank > Marcus

Nov. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Patches for Pharo packages you are maintaining

by Hilaire Fernandes

Le 23/11/2013 21:24, Camillo Bruni a Ã©crit : > It is all there: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W41 > > I was even so lazy that I made a video ;) since there are so many nasty steps > involved that I don't think text will do it. Already saw the menu of this video and did not fell related to my concern. Btw I can't watch video from VIMEO, maybe my ISP, I have to download it. Got it anyway. Well the 'Press the forgot password' link could be written somewhere, it will not hurt. Thanks Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Nov. 23, 2013