November 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Understanding Roassal

by Alexandre Bergel

Ah okay. Then, you need to load the package RoassalAthens from the repository of Roassal. But Smalltalkhub is down right now. Here is a mcz: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31543901/TMP/RoassalAthens-AlexandreBer… Load this mcz file (e.g., drag and drop it in your Pharo window), then execute "ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. â and you should get antialiasing. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. On Nov 26, 2013, at 10:47 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. > > gives me -> KeyNotFound: key 'athens' not found in Dictionary > > 'Athens' fails too. > > I can verify lack of anti-aliasing also on win7. > > I cant find an option to set anti-aliasing or Athens as backend in Easel . > > Loaded Roassal today with -> > > Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal) load. > > the image I am using is version 30585. > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > Yes I am interested in Amber Roassal and also Roassal3d. Mostly on Amber Roassal because I want to target tablets and phones and since I have no desire to go through the App stores, javascript is my best option. > > We are in sync > > > Another thing I have observed is that in all examples there is no anti-aliasing which I find very weird because my vector editor which uses Athens as well, has anti-aliased lines. Why is that ? > > Strange. Have you tried to execute âROPlatform setCurrent: âathensââ. You can use the easel to set the Athens canvas. > Else, simply use the Moose image, it comes with Athens and Roassal properly installed. > > > I am very excited about Roassal , the more I look at the code and the documentation the more I realize how flexible it is. > > Thanks. We took care of having a lean and clean design. Although we are quite satisfied, it is far from representing our ideal yet. One think I would like to remove, is the rendering loop, having it just above Athens, but below Roassal. We will work on this in January I think. > > > Is Roassal3d part of the Roassal project or is it an outside project ? > > It is a new and different project. > > > Also do you plan integrating with Spec ? Will Roassal be a backend for Spec ? > > We have no plan for this right now. Glamour is well integrated with Roassal. It should be easy to do it with Spec. > > Alexandre > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:46 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > Hi! > > > > > So I took your advice and gave a good look to Roassal to learn more about how to use Athens. First I want to congratulate the coders, I was expecting a simple visualisation library for object graphs and what I see is a full blown graphics library that can be used for many diffirent kinds of graphical illustrations. > > > > Thanks for your nice words :-) > > > > > I still however trying to understand the end goal of Roassal , is there an end goal or is it generally code visualisation ? > > > > The goal of Roassal is getting broader with the time. The main objective of Roassal is to be a platform for data visualisation. So, as soon as you have a bunch of data (e.g., plenty of numbers or any arbitrary objects), then Roassal should give you the tools to visualize and interact with your data. > > > > Roassal is slowly moving from a tool for end-user to a platform on which domain specific languages can be created. This is an important point when reusing visualizations (e.g., ROTreeMapBuilder, ROMapBuilder, ROMondrianViewBuilder are all compelling examples). > > > > Roassal is currently being ported to Amber, which will probably broaden the vision behind Roassal. Early examples may be found on: http://pestefo.github.io/roamber/# > > > > > > > Also I wanted to ask if Roassal can do visual coding. By that I mean visualize not only objects but messages inside methods so the users with drag and drop code in a visual way. > > > > Yes, Roassal is made for that. If there is something that Roassal does not allow you to do, then let us know, we are a whole team ready to polish Roassal. > > > > > I took a look at the examples but I see nowhere the use of bezier curves , why is that ? > > > > There is a few. > > > > Try: > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > "Source code: ROMondrianExample>>bezierCurveOn:" > > "Preambule. It includes the initialization. " > > | view rawView | > > rawView := ROView new. > > view := ROMondrianViewBuilder view: rawView. > > "-------------" > > "-------------" > > > > view shape circle size: 10. > > view nodes: (Collection withAllSubclasses). > > view shape bezierLine. > > view edgesFrom: #superclass. > > view radialTreeLayout. > > view center. > > > > "-------------" > > "-------------" > > "Below is the initiation of the menu and opening the visualization" > > ROEaselMorphic new populateMenuOn: view. > > view open > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > > Have a look at the class ROSplineExample > > It does not contains many examples, but you get enough to build appealing visualization (e.g., https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.511442275609041.1073741827.340543… ) > > > > More screenshots are available on: https://www.facebook.com/ObjectProfile > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > > > > > >

Nov. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Nautilus no longer guards against changed methods

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 26 Nov 2013, at 14:01, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I lost a lot of changes because of that too. Very boring bug. Technically, they are not lost, just hidden in the history of the browser. But annoying nonetheless. > 2013/11/26 Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> > Chris wrote: > >Sean wrote: > >> In general in UIs, he best approach is to do what the user requests without > >> hesitation, and make everything undoable. > > > >Ah, thanks for saying that. People need to be reminded. I think the > >tablet craze has lurched the world back into modal UI's being "okâ. > > I donât find modal UIâs ok, but this non-modal UIs is worse. > It is a mess that is not going to get better by patching up > and needs to be reverted. > > Stephan >

Nov. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] 2 month Pharo break

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 26 Nov 2013, at 12:24, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi guys, > > I will cease my pharo activities for the next two months since I have to finish my > thesis and I see myself too often "distracted" by pharo (consider this a good thing :). > > Of course I will remain available for emergency activities or any other urgent inquiries, > please contact me directly in these cases. > > see you on the other side! You will be missed, Camillo. Luckily it is only for a short while. Your efforts, in so many different areas, as well as your enthusiasm are greatly appreciated. Weâll make sure Pharo advances between now and then, you wonât recognise it ;-) Good luck with the writing. Sven

Nov. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] Frequent SegFaults in PharoVM with Pharo 3.0

by Max Leske

Thanks for the explanation. I suspected something like that (interestingly when I tried disabling all options on my Mac it worked fineâ¦). Iâll dig some more and let you know. On 25.11.2013, at 18:42, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 25 Nov 2013, at 17:56, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Yeah you cannot compile without inlining specific messages. You can disable inlining of #timesRepeat: at image level because we added it for fun to see if it was easy to do in Opal. Now all other optimizations were in the old compiler and are mandatories. However, you can now in Opal disable these optimized messages in a restricted area (such as a class and its subclasses). > > > > To me, it is kind of a bug that we cannot disable those optimizations, we should be able to do it (so 1 day in the very very far future we could have the JIT inlining these control structure allowing us to implement all these inlined messages in all classes). But one thing is that some methods such as #whileTrue are not implemented in a way they really work (they have not stop condition, so if the compiler does not inline it, it gives you an infinite loop). Another thing is the interrupt point problem as Marcus said. > > > > I don't think your other bug is related Opal optimization, only #timesRepeat: is new and therefore can be faulty (and in this case, the bytecode is correct, so I guess it is faulty because it removes an interrupt point). > > It is a bit scary that there is no explicit, crystal clear list of those interrupt critical points, especially if skipping them can lead to VM crashes. > > Before we raise the alarm the first thing is to identify the cause of the VM crash. It could still be a VM bug. First track down the bug. Don't try and find work-arounds. Try and find the cause. Only then can one develop a correct fix. Anything else buries the true cause under hacks, a process that is truly scary ;-) > > > > 2013/11/25 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > > > > On 25 Nov 2013, at 16:26, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Thanks ClÃ©ment, that seems to be it. Disabling the timesRepeat inlining makes most of the builds run through but not all of them. It seems like thereâs another (Opal related?) problem (with the exact same symptomsâ¦). > > > > > > Iâve tried disabling all options, just to see what happens: all builds fail with SegFaultsâ¦ > > > > You can not compile without optimisations. There are places in the image that would not work with e.g. whileTrue: optimisation disabled as it would e.g. add an interrupt point where none is now > > And other things, like performance, or e.g. the loop that goes over all objects, if that creates objects while running you have a problemâ¦ > > > > Marcus > > > > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot

Nov. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Understanding Roassal

by kilon alios

ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. gives me -> KeyNotFound: key 'athens' not found in Dictionary 'Athens' fails too. I can verify lack of anti-aliasing also on win7. I cant find an option to set anti-aliasing or Athens as backend in Easel . Loaded Roassal today with -> Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal) load. the image I am using is version 30585. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>wrote: > > Yes I am interested in Amber Roassal and also Roassal3d. Mostly on Amber > Roassal because I want to target tablets and phones and since I have no > desire to go through the App stores, javascript is my best option. > > We are in sync > > > Another thing I have observed is that in all examples there is no > anti-aliasing which I find very weird because my vector editor which uses > Athens as well, has anti-aliased lines. Why is that ? > > Strange. Have you tried to execute âROPlatform setCurrent: âathensââ. You > can use the easel to set the Athens canvas. > Else, simply use the Moose image, it comes with Athens and Roassal > properly installed. > > > I am very excited about Roassal , the more I look at the code and the > documentation the more I realize how flexible it is. > > Thanks. We took care of having a lean and clean design. Although we are > quite satisfied, it is far from representing our ideal yet. One think I > would like to remove, is the rendering loop, having it just above Athens, > but below Roassal. We will work on this in January I think. > > > Is Roassal3d part of the Roassal project or is it an outside project ? > > It is a new and different project. > > > Also do you plan integrating with Spec ? Will Roassal be a backend for > Spec ? > > We have no plan for this right now. Glamour is well integrated with > Roassal. It should be easy to do it with Spec. > > Alexandre > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:46 PM, Alexandre Bergel < > alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > Hi! > > > > > So I took your advice and gave a good look to Roassal to learn more > about how to use Athens. First I want to congratulate the coders, I was > expecting a simple visualisation library for object graphs and what I see > is a full blown graphics library that can be used for many diffirent kinds > of graphical illustrations. > > > > Thanks for your nice words :-) > > > > > I still however trying to understand the end goal of Roassal , is > there an end goal or is it generally code visualisation ? > > > > The goal of Roassal is getting broader with the time. The main objective > of Roassal is to be a platform for data visualisation. So, as soon as you > have a bunch of data (e.g., plenty of numbers or any arbitrary objects), > then Roassal should give you the tools to visualize and interact with your > data. > > > > Roassal is slowly moving from a tool for end-user to a platform on which > domain specific languages can be created. This is an important point when > reusing visualizations (e.g., ROTreeMapBuilder, ROMapBuilder, > ROMondrianViewBuilder are all compelling examples). > > > > Roassal is currently being ported to Amber, which will probably broaden > the vision behind Roassal. Early examples may be found on: > http://pestefo.github.io/roamber/# > > > > > > > Also I wanted to ask if Roassal can do visual coding. By that I mean > visualize not only objects but messages inside methods so the users with > drag and drop code in a visual way. > > > > Yes, Roassal is made for that. If there is something that Roassal does > not allow you to do, then let us know, we are a whole team ready to polish > Roassal. > > > > > I took a look at the examples but I see nowhere the use of bezier > curves , why is that ? > > > > There is a few. > > > > Try: > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > "Source code: ROMondrianExample>>bezierCurveOn:" > > "Preambule. It includes the initialization. " > > | view rawView | > > rawView := ROView new. > > view := ROMondrianViewBuilder view: rawView. > > "-------------" > > "-------------" > > > > view shape circle size: 10. > > view nodes: (Collection withAllSubclasses). > > view shape bezierLine. > > view edgesFrom: #superclass. > > view radialTreeLayout. > > view center. > > > > "-------------" > > "-------------" > > "Below is the initiation of the menu and opening the visualization" > > ROEaselMorphic new populateMenuOn: view. > > view open > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > > Have a look at the class ROSplineExample > > It does not contains many examples, but you get enough to build > appealing visualization (e.g., > https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.511442275609041.1073741827.340543… ) > > > > More screenshots are available on: > https://www.facebook.com/ObjectProfile > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > > > > > >

Nov. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Second Coming of Java article

by Guido Chari

Here is the video of his Smalltalk 2013 talk for the ones interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p21z3bAt7b0&list=PLCGAAdUizzH027lLWKXh_44cG… 2013/11/26 ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> > To have Java running on top of Pharo (which means on top of Cog), you > would need to have as they did in STX, a JIT compatible with java bytecode, > an interpreter for java bytecode, runtime objects such as JavaContext, ... > It is at least 1 year of work for an expert in virtual machines (I think > there's mainly 1 expert in the Cog VM but there are several on java VM). > Therefore this project requires several hundred thousands dollars > (considering you can find a virtual machine expert willing to do it). A bit > too much for ESUG in my opinion. > > > 2013/11/26 Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> > >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> >> wrote: >> > >> > On 26 Nov 2013, at 11:41, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>>> Anything preventing Pharo and VisualWorks for using the technology >> also? >> >>>> >> >>> Short answer: Time and money. >> >>> The way we did it requires significant changes to the virtual machine >> >>> (as we believe this is the only way to get a decent performance). >> Indeed, if >> >>> somebody going to pay for it, everything's possible ;-) >> >> >> >> You should try to ask ESUG about financial support. >> >> >> > >> > I do not think that he talks about this kind of money. But MONEY. >> >> Ok I understand ;-) BIG MONEY >> >> >> -- >> Serge Stinckwich >> UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) >> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk >> http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ >> >> >

Nov. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] RabbitMQ support (was Re: The Second Coming of Java article)

by Esteban A. Maringolo

I'm interested in this too. I have plans to use it together with MQTT to push notifications. Best regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2013/11/26 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com>: > On 26 November 2013 12:21, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > >> On the front of interoperability, I personally have chosen to go the >> RabbitMQ route, it allows me to wire all kinds of things together with some >> room for scale. > > What are you using on the Smalltalk side? I know Tony Garnock-Jones > did some basic parsing of AMQP, but I'm unaware of anything more than > that. Do you FFI to the C client library? Something else? > > frank >

Nov. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Nautilus no longer guards against changed methods

by ClÃ©ment Bera

I lost a lot of changes because of that too. Very boring bug. 2013/11/26 Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> > Chris wrote: > >Sean wrote: > >> In general in UIs, he best approach is to do what the user requests > without > >> hesitation, and make everything undoable. > > > >Ah, thanks for saying that. People need to be reminded. I think the > >tablet craze has lurched the world back into modal UI's being "okâ. > > I donât find modal UIâs ok, but this non-modal UIs is worse. > It is a mess that is not going to get better by patching up > and needs to be reverted. > > Stephan >

Nov. 26, 2013

RabbitMQ support (was Re: The Second Coming of Java article)

by Frank Shearar

On 26 November 2013 12:21, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > On the front of interoperability, I personally have chosen to go the > RabbitMQ route, it allows me to wire all kinds of things together with some > room for scale. What are you using on the Smalltalk side? I know Tony Garnock-Jones did some basic parsing of AMQP, but I'm unaware of anything more than that. Do you FFI to the C client library? Something else? frank

Nov. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Second Coming of Java article

by ClÃ©ment Bera

To have Java running on top of Pharo (which means on top of Cog), you would need to have as they did in STX, a JIT compatible with java bytecode, an interpreter for java bytecode, runtime objects such as JavaContext, ... It is at least 1 year of work for an expert in virtual machines (I think there's mainly 1 expert in the Cog VM but there are several on java VM). Therefore this project requires several hundred thousands dollars (considering you can find a virtual machine expert willing to do it). A bit too much for ESUG in my opinion. 2013/11/26 Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > > > > On 26 Nov 2013, at 11:41, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >>>> Anything preventing Pharo and VisualWorks for using the technology > also? > >>>> > >>> Short answer: Time and money. > >>> The way we did it requires significant changes to the virtual machine > >>> (as we believe this is the only way to get a decent performance). > Indeed, if > >>> somebody going to pay for it, everything's possible ;-) > >> > >> You should try to ask ESUG about financial support. > >> > > > > I do not think that he talks about this kind of money. But MONEY. > > Ok I understand ;-) BIG MONEY > > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ > >

Nov. 26, 2013