November 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to update Deep into Pharo Chapter

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes It would be good that you put some comments so that I can read it fast. Stef On Nov 26, 2013, at 11:07 PM, Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Damien, > What is the expected workflow? > I checkout the latex code, made the changes and then commit? > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 6:34 PM, Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Done. Username: gcotelli > > > done > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without > losing enthusiasm." > Winston Churchill > >

Nov. 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Roassal Question

by Tudor Girba

Perhaps it would be more useful to have these types of discussions on the moose-dev mailing list. You might be surprised by other things you might find there :) In case of interest, here are the coordinates: http://www.moosetechnology.org/about/contact Cheers, Doru On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>wrote: > Excellent! Let us know for any request for enhancement or bug fixes. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > On Nov 26, 2013, at 4:20 PM, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> > wrote: > > > Yes! I also found there is a ROPlatform thing I can query (not sure, the > code is at work and I'm home). > > > > (I'm coupling a C ast + CFG + parallel task analysis displayed with > Roassal with interaction with the source code under analysis on a text > pane. I demoed it this morning to our partner) > > > > Thierry > > ________________________________________ > > De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de > Alexandre Bergel [alexandre.bergel(a)me.com] > > Date d'envoi : mardi 26 novembre 2013 17:56 > > Ã : Pharo Development List > > Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Roassal Question > > > > Does the following helps? > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > | view shape morph | > > view := ROView new. > > 100 timesRepeat: [ > > shape := ROEllipse new size: 40; color: (Color green alpha: 0.5). > > view add: shape element ]. > > view elements do: [ :el | el translateTo: 500 atRandom @ 500 atRandom ]. > > > > > > morph := ROAthensMorph on: view. > > morph extent: 500 @ 500. > > morph openInWindow > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > > If you do not use Athens, then replace âROAthensMorphâ by âROMorphâ > > > > Alexandre > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2013, at 12:51 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> > wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> does anybody knows how to integrate a ROView inside a Morphic GUI ? > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Thierry > >> -- > >> Thierry Goubier > >> CEA list > >> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > >> France > >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > >> > > > > > > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Nov. 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Second Coming of Java article

by David T. Lewis

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 01:30:40PM -0800, Eliot Miranda wrote: > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:49 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>wrote: > > > FWIW, I'd love to have a working Pharo bytecode interpreter that works. > > VMMaker currently doesn't have one it seems (earlier experiments didn't > > worked for me). > > > > I am very interested with the VM, read the blue book, understand the > > primitives, can somewhat read bytecode but what is needed now is the > > ability to run/debug a VM inside Pharo itself. GDB'ing is okay but a pain > > in the ass to understand what's going on. > > > > Also read the Tour of the OE of Tim Rowledge and Porting the VM etc. > > > > Also looked at the VMMaker package (Interpreter and Object Memory) + Slang. > > > > Now, getting an working interpreter would help me reach the next step. I > > am not talking about the Stack interpreter, but the plain Interpreter. > > > > Any plans? > > > > David Lewis and I want to see the Cog branch and the VMMaker proper merged > and I definitely want the standard Interpreter to be married to Spur. But > I have no cycles to do this, and I don't think David has many either. > Volunteers welcome. Fully agree :-) With respect to the interpreter simulator, the simulators tend to get bit rotted when not used, but I think that overall they are in reasonable shape. Granted that we currently have to fumble around with multiple code bases, but it's fair to say that if you want to run a Cog/StackInterpreter/Spur simulator, you can use the appropriate classes in the oscog branch (after all, that is what Eliot is using for his active development, and it's quite unlikely that he could do this without a working simulator). And if you want to run an image using the classic interpreter, you should use the interpreter simulator in the "trunk" VMMaker branch. I realize this may be a bit confusing, but as Eliot says there are only so may free cycles available, so if someone wants to help ... I just tried loading an image into the ("trunk") InterpreterSimulator and found a problem in loading an image that had been saved from Cog. This would be a problem if you wanted to load a Pharo image into the InterpreterSimulator to try running bytecodes using a simple interpreter. The fix is in VMMaker-dtl.330 in the source.squeak.org/VMMaker repository. Hopefully it works for you now, please give it a try. Dave

Nov. 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Second Coming of Java article

by Eliot Miranda

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:49 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>wrote: > >> FWIW, I'd love to have a working Pharo bytecode interpreter that works. >> VMMaker currently doesn't have one it seems (earlier experiments didn't >> worked for me). >> >> I am very interested with the VM, read the blue book, >> > > I been writing a lot about that, at least as much as I could. > > >> understand the primitives, >> > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/tag/primitives/ > > >> can somewhat read bytecode >> > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/tag/bytecodes/ > > >> but what is needed now is the ability to run/debug a VM inside Pharo >> itself. >> > > Yes, the simulator does not run these days. > That's simply not true. I use the simulator *every day*. It is vital for the development of Spur. Starting it up these days is as simple as (| vm | vm := StackInterpreterSimulator newWithOptions: #(). vm openOn: '/Users/eliot/Cog/startreader.image'. vm openAsMorph; run) something slightly more complex would be (| vm | vm := CogVMSimulator newWithOptions: #(ObjectMemory Spur32BitCoMemoryManager Cogit StackToRegisterMappingCogit). vm desiredNumStackPages: 8. vm objectMemory setCheckForLeaks: 1. vm openOn: '/Users/eliot/Cog/spurreader.image'. vm openAsMorph; toggleTranscript; halt; run) See the class comments in StackInterpreterSimulator and CogVMSimulator. > GDB'ing is okay but a pain in the ass to understand what's going on. >> >> Ok, for debugging the VM with gdb I have: > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/tag/gdb/ > > >> Also read the Tour of the OE of Tim Rowledge and Porting the VM etc. >> >> Also looked at the VMMaker package (Interpreter and Object Memory) + >> Slang. >> >> Now, getting an working interpreter would help me reach the next step. I >> am not talking about the Stack interpreter, but the plain Interpreter. >> >> > If you want to learn, besides all those mentioned books, you can start > with http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/journey-through-the-vm/ > that is a sequence of a lots of posts related to the VM. > > Cheers, > > > >> Any plans? >> >> Phil >> >> --- >> Philippe Back >> Dramatic Performance Improvements >> Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 >> Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu >> Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback >> Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos >> >> High Octane SPRL >> rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium >> >> Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ >> Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - >> http://spamcast.libsyn.com >> Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value >> Added Reseller >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:33 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < >> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> >>> On Nov 26, 2013, at 1:21 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >>> >>> I downloaded ST/X this morning and looked around for a couple hours. >>> >>> Impressive system. And impressive clients list/activities etc. >>> <rant> >>> And wow, Claus is yet another individual with top notch computer >>> chops... Seems that this community has the highest density of high perf >>> brains. I feel humbled indeed. >>> </rant> >>> >>> What struck me was the speed. >>> >>> >>> 15 years of working improving the VM pays off. >>> This is why the work of Eliot on Spur are also important. What is also >>> important is that more people can work on the VM >>> for cleaning it so that we get a documented and good vehicule. >>> And this will take time. We are working on a prototype to get forced to >>> think about VM and learn. But this prototype will >>> not replace Cog in the near future. So we should be happy that cog is >>> there and improving. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> Pharo really needs a huge speedup on the UI front. I am using a top of >>> the line desktop system and still Pharo sometimes feels slow (some is due >>> to algorithms - like the finder tool taking ages for a lot of things, but >>> some is due to the UI system). >>> >>> This is not linked to the VM, as the MVC projects in Squeak are uber >>> fast. >>> >>> Is the Text rewrite going to have an impact on this? >>> >>> On the front of interoperability, I personally have chosen to go the >>> RabbitMQ route, it allows me to wire all kinds of things together with some >>> room for scale. >>> >>> On the Java front itself, in the TCL community, we do have tclbend and >>> also a package to do the same thing as STX:LIBJAVA. Truth be told, there >>> hasn't been much traction in there. It works fine but that's it. >>> http://www2.tcl.tk/1313 - usage sample http://www2.tcl.tk/14919 >>> It also has fell behind in terms of keeping up with the latest versions >>> of the environment. >>> >>> In PHP, there is the Quercus and Caucho Resin Server that allows to run >>> PHP on top of the JVM and invoke Java from there. Some people run very fast >>> stuff on that, and benefiting from all JEE abilities (JMS, JTA, Clustering, >>> JAAS...) is really nice. >>> http://www.caucho.com/resin-3.1/doc/quercus.xtp >>> >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz>wrote: >>> >>>> On 26/11/13 10:40, Serge Stinckwich wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 26/11/13 03:28, askoh wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bravo Jan and your collaborators. You have done it. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Anything preventing STX:LIBJAVA from being used in production >>>>>>> environments? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Good question. STX:LIBJAVA is still a research phase. However, if >>>>>> everything >>>>>> goes fine, we might have first project using it for real >>>>>> in couple months. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> What is important is also the licence. Do you use an open-source >>>>> licence ? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Strictly speaking - no. For various, historical reasons. >>>> >>>> The Smalltalk part STX:LIBJAVA support code is available under >>>> the same terms as Smalltalk/X itself [1]. >>>> >>>> The code of the VM is not publicly available for various reasons, >>>> though it is possible to get an access. Ask Claus Gittinger if >>>> you're interested in details. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Anything preventing Pharo and VisualWorks for using the technology >>>>>>> also? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Short answer: Time and money. >>>>>> The way we did it requires significant changes to the virtual machine >>>>>> (as we believe this is the only way to get a decent performance). >>>>>> Indeed, if >>>>>> somebody going to pay for it, everything's possible ;-) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You should try to ask ESUG about financial support. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Maybe I should. But frankly - how many people in this community are >>>> like "That would be great, I need this feature!" Raise hands. :-) >>>> >>>> Cheers, Jan >>>> >>>> [1] http://www.exept.de/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/stx/README?view=markup >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > -- best, Eliot

Nov. 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Second Coming of Java article

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:49 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>wrote: > FWIW, I'd love to have a working Pharo bytecode interpreter that works. > VMMaker currently doesn't have one it seems (earlier experiments didn't > worked for me). > > I am very interested with the VM, read the blue book, > I been writing a lot about that, at least as much as I could. > understand the primitives, > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/tag/primitives/ > can somewhat read bytecode > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/tag/bytecodes/ > but what is needed now is the ability to run/debug a VM inside Pharo > itself. > Yes, the simulator does not run these days. > GDB'ing is okay but a pain in the ass to understand what's going on. > > Ok, for debugging the VM with gdb I have: http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/tag/gdb/ > Also read the Tour of the OE of Tim Rowledge and Porting the VM etc. > > Also looked at the VMMaker package (Interpreter and Object Memory) + Slang. > > Now, getting an working interpreter would help me reach the next step. I > am not talking about the Stack interpreter, but the plain Interpreter. > > If you want to learn, besides all those mentioned books, you can start with http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/journey-through-the-vm/ that is a sequence of a lots of posts related to the VM. Cheers, > Any plans? > > Phil > > --- > Philippe Back > Dramatic Performance Improvements > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 > Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu > Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback > Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium > > Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ > Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - > http://spamcast.libsyn.com > Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value > Added Reseller > > > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:33 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> >> On Nov 26, 2013, at 1:21 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >> I downloaded ST/X this morning and looked around for a couple hours. >> >> Impressive system. And impressive clients list/activities etc. >> <rant> >> And wow, Claus is yet another individual with top notch computer chops... >> Seems that this community has the highest density of high perf brains. I >> feel humbled indeed. >> </rant> >> >> What struck me was the speed. >> >> >> 15 years of working improving the VM pays off. >> This is why the work of Eliot on Spur are also important. What is also >> important is that more people can work on the VM >> for cleaning it so that we get a documented and good vehicule. >> And this will take time. We are working on a prototype to get forced to >> think about VM and learn. But this prototype will >> not replace Cog in the near future. So we should be happy that cog is >> there and improving. >> >> Stef >> >> Pharo really needs a huge speedup on the UI front. I am using a top of >> the line desktop system and still Pharo sometimes feels slow (some is due >> to algorithms - like the finder tool taking ages for a lot of things, but >> some is due to the UI system). >> >> This is not linked to the VM, as the MVC projects in Squeak are uber fast. >> >> Is the Text rewrite going to have an impact on this? >> >> On the front of interoperability, I personally have chosen to go the >> RabbitMQ route, it allows me to wire all kinds of things together with some >> room for scale. >> >> On the Java front itself, in the TCL community, we do have tclbend and >> also a package to do the same thing as STX:LIBJAVA. Truth be told, there >> hasn't been much traction in there. It works fine but that's it. >> http://www2.tcl.tk/1313 - usage sample http://www2.tcl.tk/14919 >> It also has fell behind in terms of keeping up with the latest versions >> of the environment. >> >> In PHP, there is the Quercus and Caucho Resin Server that allows to run >> PHP on top of the JVM and invoke Java from there. Some people run very fast >> stuff on that, and benefiting from all JEE abilities (JMS, JTA, Clustering, >> JAAS...) is really nice. http://www.caucho.com/resin-3.1/doc/quercus.xtp >> >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz>wrote: >> >>> On 26/11/13 10:40, Serge Stinckwich wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 26/11/13 03:28, askoh wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bravo Jan and your collaborators. You have done it. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Anything preventing STX:LIBJAVA from being used in production >>>>>> environments? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Good question. STX:LIBJAVA is still a research phase. However, if >>>>> everything >>>>> goes fine, we might have first project using it for real >>>>> in couple months. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> What is important is also the licence. Do you use an open-source >>>> licence ? >>>> >>> >>> Strictly speaking - no. For various, historical reasons. >>> >>> The Smalltalk part STX:LIBJAVA support code is available under >>> the same terms as Smalltalk/X itself [1]. >>> >>> The code of the VM is not publicly available for various reasons, >>> though it is possible to get an access. Ask Claus Gittinger if >>> you're interested in details. >>> >>> >>>> Anything preventing Pharo and VisualWorks for using the technology >>>>>> also? >>>>>> >>>>>> Short answer: Time and money. >>>>> The way we did it requires significant changes to the virtual machine >>>>> (as we believe this is the only way to get a decent performance). >>>>> Indeed, if >>>>> somebody going to pay for it, everything's possible ;-) >>>>> >>>> >>>> You should try to ask ESUG about financial support. >>>> >>>> >>> Maybe I should. But frankly - how many people in this community are like >>> "That would be great, I need this feature!" Raise hands. :-) >>> >>> Cheers, Jan >>> >>> [1] http://www.exept.de/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/stx/README?view=markup >>> >>> >>> >> >> > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Nov. 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Second Coming of Java article

by askoh

Jan: Can you give us a bit of history of STX:LIBJAVA? Even if it was just for fun what was the rational? What killer app might there be? What business models are there to pursue? How much effort was used and who funded your group? Can you debug Java like all the power of Smalltalk debugger? Congratulations again. How about an easier name like StJ? or SXJ? All the best, Aik-Siong Koh -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Second-Coming-of-Java-article-tp4724932p4725471.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Nov. 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Solaris VM ?

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Jannik, On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 1:50 PM, jannik.laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hi guys, > > Does anyone know if Pharo can work on a Solaris System ? > In theory yes. It is merely a "small matter" of compiling a VM on the system. Are you talking about open solaris with x86 or good old solaris with SPARC? > > Cheers, > Jannik > > -- best, Eliot

Nov. 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to update Deep into Pharo Chapter

by Gabriel Cotelli

Thanks Damien, What is the expected workflow? I checkout the latex code, made the changes and then commit? On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com>wrote: > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 6:34 PM, Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Done. Username: gcotelli > > > done > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without > losing enthusiasm." > Winston Churchill > >

Nov. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Second Coming of Java article

by phil＠highoctane.be

That's the issue with such an immense amount of work to do and brainpower to use. Lots of rest, getting away from everything for while definitely helps. Just an advice from the burned-out anonymous... Phil On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:04 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Nov 26, 2013, at 9:53 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > I also noticed that Sean does a replacement of the small size fonts with > large size fonts in a specific way to speed up rendering of larger font (In > his Configuration that does Preferences). I've got eyesight issues, so I am > also using larger fonts. That doesn't help with speed indeed. > > But the Paragraph rendering code is also a culprit I think, as it > endlessly recreates objects all the time. > > > Igor was working on a new textEditor but he is down energy since a month. > So we will see what will happen. > Sadly he was working well with fernando. > We will see if we can help him getting back to energy. > > Stef > > > Morphs with step methods and a short stepping time are pretty fast. I've a > educational game on the iPad that uses this and it is pretty nice in terms > of rendering speed (dragging and dropping formula pieces around). > > > > --- > Philippe Back > Dramatic Performance Improvements > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 > Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu > Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback > Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium > > Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ > Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - > http://spamcast.libsyn.com > Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value > Added Reseller > > > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo < > emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> 2013/11/26 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: >> > Pharo really needs a huge speedup on the UI front. I am using a top of >> the >> > line desktop system and still Pharo sometimes feels slow (some is due to >> > algorithms - like the finder tool taking ages for a lot of things, but >> some >> > is due to the UI system). >> > >> > This is not linked to the VM, as the MVC projects in Squeak are uber >> fast. >> > >> > Is the Text rewrite going to have an impact on this? >> >> It doesn't feel slow, it is slow. Perfectly usable, though. I even >> feel it was faster before. >> >> But I think the problem comes from the "rendering" side, and not >> because of "not UI" operations running in the main thread. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> > >

Nov. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Second Coming of Java article

by Eliot Miranda

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:49 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>wrote: > FWIW, I'd love to have a working Pharo bytecode interpreter that works. > VMMaker currently doesn't have one it seems (earlier experiments didn't > worked for me). > > I am very interested with the VM, read the blue book, understand the > primitives, can somewhat read bytecode but what is needed now is the > ability to run/debug a VM inside Pharo itself. GDB'ing is okay but a pain > in the ass to understand what's going on. > > Also read the Tour of the OE of Tim Rowledge and Porting the VM etc. > > Also looked at the VMMaker package (Interpreter and Object Memory) + Slang. > > Now, getting an working interpreter would help me reach the next step. I > am not talking about the Stack interpreter, but the plain Interpreter. > > Any plans? > David Lewis and I want to see the Cog branch and the VMMaker proper merged and I definitely want the standard Interpreter to be married to Spur. But I have no cycles to do this, and I don't think David has many either. Volunteers welcome. > > Phil > > --- > Philippe Back > Dramatic Performance Improvements > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 > Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu > Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback > Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium > > Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ > Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - > http://spamcast.libsyn.com > Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value > Added Reseller > > > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:33 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> >> On Nov 26, 2013, at 1:21 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >> I downloaded ST/X this morning and looked around for a couple hours. >> >> Impressive system. And impressive clients list/activities etc. >> <rant> >> And wow, Claus is yet another individual with top notch computer chops... >> Seems that this community has the highest density of high perf brains. I >> feel humbled indeed. >> </rant> >> >> What struck me was the speed. >> >> >> 15 years of working improving the VM pays off. >> This is why the work of Eliot on Spur are also important. What is also >> important is that more people can work on the VM >> for cleaning it so that we get a documented and good vehicule. >> And this will take time. We are working on a prototype to get forced to >> think about VM and learn. But this prototype will >> not replace Cog in the near future. So we should be happy that cog is >> there and improving. >> >> Stef >> >> Pharo really needs a huge speedup on the UI front. I am using a top of >> the line desktop system and still Pharo sometimes feels slow (some is due >> to algorithms - like the finder tool taking ages for a lot of things, but >> some is due to the UI system). >> >> This is not linked to the VM, as the MVC projects in Squeak are uber fast. >> >> Is the Text rewrite going to have an impact on this? >> >> On the front of interoperability, I personally have chosen to go the >> RabbitMQ route, it allows me to wire all kinds of things together with some >> room for scale. >> >> On the Java front itself, in the TCL community, we do have tclbend and >> also a package to do the same thing as STX:LIBJAVA. Truth be told, there >> hasn't been much traction in there. It works fine but that's it. >> http://www2.tcl.tk/1313 - usage sample http://www2.tcl.tk/14919 >> It also has fell behind in terms of keeping up with the latest versions >> of the environment. >> >> In PHP, there is the Quercus and Caucho Resin Server that allows to run >> PHP on top of the JVM and invoke Java from there. Some people run very fast >> stuff on that, and benefiting from all JEE abilities (JMS, JTA, Clustering, >> JAAS...) is really nice. http://www.caucho.com/resin-3.1/doc/quercus.xtp >> >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz>wrote: >> >>> On 26/11/13 10:40, Serge Stinckwich wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 26/11/13 03:28, askoh wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bravo Jan and your collaborators. You have done it. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Anything preventing STX:LIBJAVA from being used in production >>>>>> environments? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Good question. STX:LIBJAVA is still a research phase. However, if >>>>> everything >>>>> goes fine, we might have first project using it for real >>>>> in couple months. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> What is important is also the licence. Do you use an open-source >>>> licence ? >>>> >>> >>> Strictly speaking - no. For various, historical reasons. >>> >>> The Smalltalk part STX:LIBJAVA support code is available under >>> the same terms as Smalltalk/X itself [1]. >>> >>> The code of the VM is not publicly available for various reasons, >>> though it is possible to get an access. Ask Claus Gittinger if >>> you're interested in details. >>> >>> >>>> Anything preventing Pharo and VisualWorks for using the technology >>>>>> also? >>>>>> >>>>>> Short answer: Time and money. >>>>> The way we did it requires significant changes to the virtual machine >>>>> (as we believe this is the only way to get a decent performance). >>>>> Indeed, if >>>>> somebody going to pay for it, everything's possible ;-) >>>>> >>>> >>>> You should try to ask ESUG about financial support. >>>> >>>> >>> Maybe I should. But frankly - how many people in this community are like >>> "That would be great, I need this feature!" Raise hands. :-) >>> >>> Cheers, Jan >>> >>> [1] http://www.exept.de/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/stx/README?view=markup >>> >>> >>> >> >> > -- best, Eliot

Nov. 26, 2013