October 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to create lines with Athens

by Igor Stasenko

i hope you satisfied with my answer. you welcome to ask more, if you not :) On 30 October 2013 22:32, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19694197/how-to-create-lines-with-athens > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 30, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

by Yuriy Tymchuk

On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:51, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Well were are the books you wrote with this wonderful format? > The only guy I can consider is sven. Why because he is writing real documentation. > Now I'm confident that sevn could write in pier syntax because this is really close to markdown. > What is missing is the immediate rendering of pier syntax as in the collabactive book. I havenât written any books. But I donât feel bad for asking the things that I what to hear other peoples opinion about. > > > Stef > > On Oct 30, 2013, at 8:09 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> Iâm not looking for simplicity, Iâm looking for a good final product. ePub shouldnât be simpler, itâs just made for eBooks. >>>>> On the other hand there are editors with WYSIWYG support like:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K2Q-tdVbPRI/UI08v7LhzHI/AAAAAAAAABY/vZ5LHjM6… >>>>> And of course there is iBooks Author that I mentioned. >>>>> >>>>> Iâm not trying to convince, Iâm just trying to understand why development of a new syntax is better the reusing/extending existing one. Or why we canât use epub + sigil for example. >>>> >>>> I personally *love* Markdown, it is very easy/productive to write documentation in. >>>> >>>> But, >>>> >>>> - there are different, competing and conflicting Markdown variants >>>> - there is no official specification (OK, daring fireball, but he refuses to work with github, stack exchange) >>>> - there is no formal syntax specification, nowhere >>>> - it is very hard to write a parser, it is too loosely specified >>>> >>>> Pier syntax is not new, it is probably older than Markdown. >>>> >>>> As far as I am concerned, the most prolific/active authors get to decide, it is a simple as that. >>>> >>>> I am just hoping that their standalone parser and document model is high quality ;-) >>> >>> I have nothing against pier syntax. But imagine person coming from outside, who used markdown to ask questions on stack overflow and write readmes on github, and here he has to use a different syntax for the same purpose. Just a thought about bringing new people into a community :) >> >> I agree with you 100%... plus I use markdown for webdoc => http://files.pharo.org/doc/2.0/ > >

Oct. 30, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

by Nicolas Cellier

Why not a more discriminating example, like '19991231'? 2013/10/30 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> > Hi Blake, > > On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:55, blake <dsblakewatson(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Heya, guys-- > > > > Converting a Ruby program to Pharo, and one of the things this program > does is write a file out by date. The format is "yyyymmdd" (which is my > preferred naming convention). In Ruby I have: > > > > "%04d" % d.year + "%02d" % d.month + "%02d" % d.day > > > > In Smalltalk, the closest I can seem to get to this is: > > > > d year asString, (d monthIndex asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0), (d > dayOfMonth asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0) > > > > ...which seems sort verbose. Anyone have any more elegant solutions? > > Using the âby exampleâ formatter/parser that is part of the ZTimestamp > package (can be loaded using the Configuration Browser), you could say: > > (ZTimestampFormat fromString: '20010203') format: Date today. > > Although it is called ZTimestampFormat, it can actually work with Date, > Time, DateAndTime as well. > > Sven >

Oct. 30, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

by Yuriy Tymchuk

On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:49, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> >> >> I have nothing against pier syntax. But imagine person coming from outside, who used markdown to ask questions on stack overflow and write readmes on github, and here he has to use a different syntax for the same purpose. Just a thought about bringing new people into a community :) > > with the same attitute, why do you do smalltalk when there is JS? I donât see what is new in Pier. Now I know a plan about big extension. > > Stef >

Oct. 30, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi Blake, On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:55, blake <dsblakewatson(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Heya, guys-- > > Converting a Ruby program to Pharo, and one of the things this program does is write a file out by date. The format is "yyyymmdd" (which is my preferred naming convention). In Ruby I have: > > "%04d" % d.year + "%02d" % d.month + "%02d" % d.day > > In Smalltalk, the closest I can seem to get to this is: > > d year asString, (d monthIndex asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0), (d dayOfMonth asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0) > > ...which seems sort verbose. Anyone have any more elegant solutions? Using the âby exampleâ formatter/parser that is part of the ZTimestamp package (can be loaded using the Configuration Browser), you could say: (ZTimestampFormat fromString: '20010203') format: Date today. Although it is called ZTimestampFormat, it can actually work with Date, Time, DateAndTime as well. Sven

Oct. 30, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

by Yuriy Tymchuk

On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:48, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> >>> >>> markdown misses a lot of features we need to write a book as you >>> highlight in your next point. So I don't understand your question :-) >> >> If you want to write a comment and display it in Amber I donât see why people have to learn a new markup language when there is markdown. > > Because you learn markdown first but pier syntax predates it. and because like that we have one syntax for everything. > Did you notice that the seaside book was fully written with this syntax and it WORKS!!! For me itâs like stating that weâll make one car that will be able to win both Formula 1 and Dakar Rally. > > >>>> >> >> Iâm not looking for simplicity, Iâm looking for a good final product. ePub shouldnât be simpler, itâs just made for eBooks. >> On the other hand there are editors with WYSIWYG support like: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K2Q-tdVbPRI/UI08v7LhzHI/AAAAAAAAABY/vZ5LHjM6nb4/s… >> And of course there is iBooks Author that I mentioned. >> >> Iâm not trying to convince, Iâm just trying to understand why development of a new syntax is better the reusing/extending existing one. Or why we canât use epub + sigil for example. > > IT IS NOT A NEW SYNTAX!!! > We have this neutral syntax that proved to work for real and we have exporters and with a bit of work we will be able to > generate all the formats we want. Just talking about newcomers. > > So if you need epub, add a visitor and all the chapters I'm writing will be in epub too. > But I will not work with a syntax that does not let me write book, html, â¦. > Why because this is my time. > > Stef > >> Cheers. >> Uko >> >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>> >>> "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without >>> losing enthusiasm." >>> Winston Churchill >>> >> >> > >

Oct. 30, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Losing instance variable addition

by Igor Stasenko

I don't think there's something to fix. You cannot 'extend' classes belonging to other package in any other way than adding extension methods. Allowing extension of ivars or any other vars by foreign package is road to nowhere. I would not like if shape of my kernel classes depends on what packages i load or in what order i loaded them. To me it is clear that if one needs to add/remove/modify instance variables of some class, those changes should belong to the package containing that class, not some random package. On 30 October 2013 19:15, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > Ok in fact > Gisela forked the AST-Core package to be able to load a new version with > the instance variables. > Because there is no way to say that a class definition modification is > attached to a given package. > > Stef > > > Apparently the problem is that gisela is adding instance variable to a > class that is not in the Flamel package. > > So it was working before but not anymore. > > > > Stef > > > > > > > >> Hi guys > >> > >> we are losing instance variables addition when loading a package. > >> Here is the example: > >> > >> Gofer new > >> url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/gisela/Flamel/main'; > >> version: 'Flamel-GiselaDecuzzi.94'; > >> load > >> > >> Normally RBProgramNode should have three new instance variables and not > this is not the case. > >> Is it a known bug? > >> > >> Stef > > > > > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 30, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

by Chris Cunningham

Or: Date today printFormat: #(3 2 1 0 1 1 2) On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com>wrote: > On 30 October 2013 20:55, blake <dsblakewatson(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Heya, guys-- > > > > Converting a Ruby program to Pharo, and one of the things this program > does > > is write a file out by date. The format is "yyyymmdd" (which is my > preferred > > naming convention). In Ruby I have: > > > > "%04d" % d.year + "%02d" % d.month + "%02d" % d.day > > Why not "%04d%02d%02d" % [d.year, d.month, d.day] ? > > > In Smalltalk, the closest I can seem to get to this is: > > > > d year asString, (d monthIndex asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0), (d > > dayOfMonth asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0) > > > > ...which seems sort verbose. Anyone have any more elegant solutions? > > Chris has already given a near solution. You just need to "select: > #isDigit" on the end of his answer to get exactly what you want. > > frank > >

Oct. 30, 2013

How to create lines with Athens

by dimitris chloupis

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19694197/how-to-create-lines-with-athens

Oct. 30, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

by Yuriy Tymchuk

On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:44, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Oct 30, 2013, at 5:53 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > >> This makes sense. But I have 2 opinions: >> >> 1) If we want something like markdown, why not to use Markdown? > > because we will have to patch it anyway because it is uncomplete (missing features for making decent book). > >> 2) When I think about the book I think about something nice. I donât think that markdown is good for books. Thatâs exactly what I encountered. I wanted to start with this updated version of RBE and wanted to use Gutenberg so it will be possible to put the book on iBook store and Amazon and read it on iDevices and Kindles. But When I started to rewrite latex source in Gutenberg Iâve found that a lot of details are going to be missing, because the is no support in Gutenberg for them. > > Like what? > Be precise because we can extend gutenberg to cover these needs. > Because we took the previous pharo book macros and reduce the set. > > >> Thatâs my main question: why wonât we write books in ePub (because it the #1 eBooks format) and confer it to .mobi (for kindles) as the formats can be converted without a problem. > > Because with gutenberg+ we can generate > - latex > - markdown > - html > so you can add epub Just why do you need a book in markdown? > > I do not want to eith write doc or book or html I want one format to produce them all. > >> Iâd also enjoy to write books in iBooks Author, but it will be hard to cooperate as not everybody is using Mac. >> >> Cheers. >> Uko >> >> On 30 Oct 2013, at 17:36, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >>>> Why do we need Pier-Gutenberg? Why canât we gust use ePub for example? >>> >>> We need a simple text based syntax (like for wiki) to write >>> documentation fast (e.g., books, class comments, method comments). I >>> don't know ePub, but it looks a lot like HTML, which is way too >>> verbose for our needs. Gutemberg looks more like Mardown and Org-mode. >>> The difference with these 2 is that everything is written in Smalltalk >>> so it is easy to customize to our needs and embed in Pharo (e.g., to >>> show beautiful class comments in Nautilus, just like in Amber: >>> http://forum.world.st/attachment/4684866/0/Screen%20Shot%202013-05-02%20at%…) >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>> >>> "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without >>> losing enthusiasm." >>> Winston Churchill >>> >> >> > >

Oct. 30, 2013