October 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] [ann] system attraction view

by Alexandre Bergel

> But very slow even on small examples ... > Do you use a magic trick to enhance the performance ? Not really. Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

by Goubier Thierry

Le 16/10/2013 11:50, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : > > On 16 Oct 2013, at 10:20, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > >> Interesting display, Sven. >> >> My take on that: >> >> * Aesthetics: the system has two fonts, not one. -1 if I review a document with more than one font. > > In all documents, you have at least two fonts: body and headings, often quotes, examples, listings, etc have an another font to make them stand out. In the new approach, the idea is that monospaced fonts indicate code (in browsers, debuggers, workspaces). It is a useful principle. You're right. But nobody would dare write headings in a monospaced font :) unless for an art project. >> * Coherence / uniformity: A class name, a method selector has a different shape in the GUI (proportional) than in the code (monospaced). Are they different objects? Can I recognize my class name in the code without reading it? > > Syntax highlighting should take care of that I guess. I don't think so. This is no by making the selector green that it will look more like the proportional version in the pane above. Kind of disrupting the uniformity of the underlying model, when I'm pushing for things like smart suggestions where the GUI understands the objects written in the code. > I think that if the monospaced font is a point size smaller that the main sans font (e.g. 12 and 11) the excessive width problem or visual shock is much more manageable. In any case, I am giving it a try. Probably. But then individual characters may become harder to read and distinguish... sort of compromising character readability to make space for the added whitespace inherent to the monospaced font. I'd be more impressed if the argument was helping me distinguish between | and l. I'l let you try, then :) Thierry -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] TxText status (was Re: bug: [4993] Typing cmd+L cancel all typing and we can't undo it [Terminated] )

by Goubier Thierry

Le 16/10/2013 12:08, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > thierry > > the one of alain is a simple do/undo now Epicea is a new changes model developed by martin and > you raised a good point, we should look if Epicea could be used for RB undo. My point is: undo/redo is one API (Alain's), EPICEA would specialize that for code changes, and RB is also for code changes (is EPICEA able to represent RB operations?). Also, would EPICEA come with a merge capability? It would beat any versionning system out there by providing better history understanding. Thierry > Stef > > On Oct 16, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > >> Hi Alain, >> >> thanks for the information. It looks very powerfull, I'll have to look into it. >> >> There is also a RB related history system, I'm using it in my browser. It's RBRefactoryChangeManager (is that the one Nautilus is using?). >> >> Thierry >> >> Le 16/10/2013 11:29, plantec a Ã©crit : >>> You can have a look at Tests-SystemHistory. >>> afaik, EditingState is the only user in the current system. >>> Nautilus has its own. >>> Will TxTextMorph have its own undo/redo framework too ? >>> Cheers >>> Alain >>> >>> Le 16 oct. 2013 Ã 11:14, plantec <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com> a Ã©crit : >>> >>>> >>>> Le 16 oct. 2013 Ã 08:07, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >>>> >>>>> Undo framework? >>>>> Where to see it? what the package name? >>>>> >>>> >>>> It is System-History >>>> Cheers >>>> Alain >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013/10/16 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >>>>> please note that the re is a little undo frameworks made by alain plantec in the image. >>>>> I think that phil is refeergin to paragraph and textEditor not undo/redo >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 16, 2013, at 4:02 AM, btc(a)openInWorld.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I guess Phil is referring to the difficulties of the current undo mechanism, which you've already discovered. >>>>>> One of the problems with web interfaces to a mailling-list is sometimes losing context. (I'm using Thunderbird 2.0 and it doesn't do threads.) >>>>>> >>>>>> btw, What is the plan/schdule for TxText integration into Pharo mainline? >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers -ben >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> kilon wrote: >>>>>>> philippeback wrote >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Don't enter that if you aren't ready to invest a couple of weeks. >>>>>>>> TxText will change it all anyway. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Disclaimer: I spent the couple of weeks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Phil >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry don't understand what you mean . Are you referring to me ? Enter what >>>>>>> ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> View this message in context: >>>>>>> http://forum.world.st/bug-4993-Typing-cmd-L-cancel-all-typing-and-we-can-t-… >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >>>>>>> Nabble.com >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >> > > > > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Outdated Bug [7245] Autocomplete highlighting out of sync w editor after partial match

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-10-16, at 07:24, btc(a)openinworld.com wrote: > An additional problem is referring to old identifiers that are no longer in the image. Yeah, so that is part of a long-standing bug in the completion framework... > Not sure whether that should be a separate Case. well it should be :) but chances are low that this will ever be fixed. The completion framework is a battlefield of its own :P > cheers -ben > > btc(a)openinworld.com wrote: >> Refer to attached pic. When the Spotlight text jumps from 'Conf' to >> 'Configuration' by pressing <tab>, the list is not updated. >> Actually, why does the auto-completion jump from 'Conf' to 'Configuration' and >> not stop at 'Config' ? The code currently only looks at the first 10 entries or so for the tab completion.

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

by Alexandre Bergel

Which 3d apps has a nice GUI? I would be happy to have a look at it Alexandre > Le 15-10-2013 Ã 11:36, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> a Ã©crit : > > Camillo Bruni-3 wrote >> processing.org uses monospaced font, these are the art guys that have more >> sense graphics >> than any one this mailinglist (BTW, how many of you have visited an art >> school?) >> >> signature.asc (457 bytes) >> <http://forum.world.st/attachment/4714509/0/signature.asc> > > Guilty as charged, doing music and graphics as long as I do coding. I am > pushing becoming a pro digital painter in the next 3-5 years. I have been to > an art school last year, but I prefer learning alone. > > > Goubier Thierry wrote >> Not me. >> >> I'm often not impressed by the tools used by graphics designers. I can't >> get my head around the blender GUI, for example. >> >> Specialized communities, tools around their own concepts and very >> productive for the training they have in it. Not a good entry level GUI, >> in most cases. >> >> Innovative, interesting GUIs ? Game, arts projects (not tools, results >> out of their tools). >> >> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > > you should be , 3d apps are by very far the most innovative software out > there and their technology is evolving so fast artists barely can keep up. > > The challanges that GUIs have to face are just pure insane, the level of > complexity just overwhelming because of thousands of features that > constantly are dependent on each other. To be put it short, 3d apps are GUI > coder worst nightmare. > > 3d app are for very hard to use for users , power users , coders , amateur > artists , traditional pro artist. They don't care about any of them. They > focus on a single group , 3d artists. This is why you will rarely find any > serious 3d app sacrificing complexity of the gui for luring in other groups. > They are nuclear weapons meant to be used by people that have high depends > and want to do million different things with them. > > The only exception is Scetchup. But even that is not used by 3d artists as > much as regular users. > > Blender belongs to the mediocre examples of GUI design for 3d app, best > implementation by far being Softimage XSI. That program is a seminar how > very complex GUIs should be done. > > Music apps also have the tendency of large complexity with very solid GUI > Designs, an example is Ableton Live. > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/default-monospaced-code-font-tp4714433p4714547.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old Compiler is now unload able!

by Tudor Girba

This is amazing work! Thank you! I am an outsider in this topic, but I would kindly ask everyone to take a moment and consider the achievement. This is the first important sign of a long, tedious and highly undervalued work towards a goal set essentially from the very beginning of Pharo. It might not appear glamorous, but it certainly is a cornerstone. It is precisely this type of work that places Pharo in a land of its own. Doru On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 12:05 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > This opens a wide range of improvements. The future will be bright :). > Thanks clement, camillo and marcus for this effort. > Opal + slots will be really sexy. > > Stef > > > Bravo! > > > > Thierry > > > > Le 16/10/2013 11:15, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : > >> Hi, > >> > >> You can now do: > >> > >> ScriptLoader new unloadPackageNamed: 'CompilerTests'. > >> ScriptLoader new unloadPackageNamed: 'Compiler'. > >> > >> and the system continues to work. > >> > >> > >> Marcus > >> > > > > -- > > Thierry Goubier > > CEA list > > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > > France > > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] TxText status (was Re: bug: [4993] Typing cmd+L cancel all typing and we can't undo it [Terminated] )

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thierry the one of alain is a simple do/undo now Epicea is a new changes model developed by martin and you raised a good point, we should look if Epicea could be used for RB undo. Stef On Oct 16, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > Hi Alain, > > thanks for the information. It looks very powerfull, I'll have to look into it. > > There is also a RB related history system, I'm using it in my browser. It's RBRefactoryChangeManager (is that the one Nautilus is using?). > > Thierry > > Le 16/10/2013 11:29, plantec a Ã©crit : >> You can have a look at Tests-SystemHistory. >> afaik, EditingState is the only user in the current system. >> Nautilus has its own. >> Will TxTextMorph have its own undo/redo framework too ? >> Cheers >> Alain >> >> Le 16 oct. 2013 Ã 11:14, plantec <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com> a Ã©crit : >> >>> >>> Le 16 oct. 2013 Ã 08:07, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >>> >>>> Undo framework? >>>> Where to see it? what the package name? >>>> >>> >>> It is System-History >>> Cheers >>> Alain >>> >>> >>>> >>>> 2013/10/16 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >>>> please note that the re is a little undo frameworks made by alain plantec in the image. >>>> I think that phil is refeergin to paragraph and textEditor not undo/redo >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Oct 16, 2013, at 4:02 AM, btc(a)openInWorld.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> I guess Phil is referring to the difficulties of the current undo mechanism, which you've already discovered. >>>>> One of the problems with web interfaces to a mailling-list is sometimes losing context. (I'm using Thunderbird 2.0 and it doesn't do threads.) >>>>> >>>>> btw, What is the plan/schdule for TxText integration into Pharo mainline? >>>>> >>>>> cheers -ben >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> kilon wrote: >>>>>> philippeback wrote >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Don't enter that if you aren't ready to invest a couple of weeks. >>>>>>> TxText will change it all anyway. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Disclaimer: I spent the couple of weeks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Phil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry don't understand what you mean . Are you referring to me ? Enter what >>>>>> ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> View this message in context: >>>>>> http://forum.world.st/bug-4993-Typing-cmd-L-cancel-all-typing-and-we-can-t-… >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >>>>>> Nabble.com >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] TxText status (was Re: bug: [4993] Typing cmd+L cancel all typing and we can't undo it [Terminated] )

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> You can have a look at Tests-SystemHistory. > afaik, EditingState is the only user in the current system. > Nautilus has its own. > Will TxTextMorph have its own undo/redo framework too ? No we will use yours and nautilus should do the same. Reusing and improving vs stacking similar solutions. > Cheers > Alain > > Le 16 oct. 2013 Ã 11:14, plantec <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com> a Ã©crit : > >> >> Le 16 oct. 2013 Ã 08:07, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >> >>> Undo framework? >>> Where to see it? what the package name? >>> >> >> It is System-History >> Cheers >> Alain >> >> >>> >>> 2013/10/16 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >>> please note that the re is a little undo frameworks made by alain plantec in the image. >>> I think that phil is refeergin to paragraph and textEditor not undo/redo >>> Stef >>> >>> On Oct 16, 2013, at 4:02 AM, btc(a)openInWorld.com wrote: >>> >>>> I guess Phil is referring to the difficulties of the current undo mechanism, which you've already discovered. >>>> One of the problems with web interfaces to a mailling-list is sometimes losing context. (I'm using Thunderbird 2.0 and it doesn't do threads.) >>>> >>>> btw, What is the plan/schdule for TxText integration into Pharo mainline? >>>> >>>> cheers -ben >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> kilon wrote: >>>>> philippeback wrote >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Don't enter that if you aren't ready to invest a couple of weeks. >>>>>> TxText will change it all anyway. >>>>>> >>>>>> Disclaimer: I spent the couple of weeks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Sorry don't understand what you mean . Are you referring to me ? Enter what >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> View this message in context: >>>>> http://forum.world.st/bug-4993-Typing-cmd-L-cancel-all-typing-and-we-can-t-… >>>>> >>>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >>>>> Nabble.com >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old Compiler is now unload able!

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

This opens a wide range of improvements. The future will be bright :). Thanks clement, camillo and marcus for this effort. Opal + slots will be really sexy. Stef > Bravo! > > Thierry > > Le 16/10/2013 11:15, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : >> Hi, >> >> You can now do: >> >> ScriptLoader new unloadPackageNamed: 'CompilerTests'. >> ScriptLoader new unloadPackageNamed: 'Compiler'. >> >> and the system continues to work. >> >> >> Marcus >> > > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >

Oct. 16, 2013

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/30491 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Oct. 16, 2013