October 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

by phil＠highoctane.be

Bryce 7 has an approachable UI. http://www.youtube.com/user/davidbrinnen/videos And there is a lot of depth in the materials etc. Wings3D is also approachable. http://www.wings3d.com/ --- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr>wrote: > > > Le 16/10/2013 15:05, dimitris chloupis a Ã©crit : > >> >> Blender also has very nice GUI, used to be awful at it, but a few years >> ago they committed the biggest Coding Sin, they rewrote the software and >> old GUI was thrown away. Its no Softimage but its a good example none >> the less. Definitely much better than Pharo. >> > > Hum. I'm utterly lost in the Blender GUI. The fact I'm trying it on a > netbook with a 11"6 screen and no keypad has probably something to do with > it: you can't even use it without going into the options and remapping the > keyboard shortcuts... And all that wasted space! > > So count me as not impressed by that GUI. Maybe as a good power user GUI, > for someone who has a 30" display, a full size keyboard, a mouse and > invested the time to learn it. > > The GUI that accomodates beginners and power user on a highly complex > system is a rare beast indeed :( > > However, like the dark theme discussion, it shows something of interest > for Pharo: egoistic applications which takes over a full screen with their > own selfish look and feel are perfectly fine :):) > > Thierry > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > >

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Igor, On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 15 October 2013 18:36, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 10/15/2013 11:06 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> *From: *Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> >> >> >> >>> Progress is possible, >> >> >> Indeed it is. And moving from proportional to mono-spaced fonts is not >> progress, it is regress. >> >> >>> perfection was not achieved in 81 or in 95. >>> >> >> I didn't say it was. I said that systems designed with a coherent >> aesthetics and philosophy are more coherent, powerful and comprehensible >> than those which are not. >> >> >> yes, they are, I agree with that, and that's what we are trying to >> achieve... advancing one small step at a time, because we cannot doit all >> together, sadly. >> What I do not see is how proportional fonts fits more with a pharo >> coherence (which in my pov does not exists today) than a monospaced one. >> >> >> But the change is away from proportional to monospace. I think the sale >> must be made as to what does that actually buy us. How does this improve >> our experience, pharo coherence? >> >> It seems that many of us here don't believe that it provides that >> coherence of UI/UX that your hoping to move us towards. >> >> So when changing from what we have, it seems that it needs to >> demonstrated that the change is for the better and not neutral or worse. >> >> I personally don't buy the it is less foreign to non-Smalltalkers >> argument. non-Smalltalkers would just move their distaste of Smalltalk >> somewhere else. Why do we have to use the image? Why can't I use Emacs, >> vim, Eclipse? Its all very personal and sometimes very visceral. >> >> I have seen some visceral comments from Igor regarding Python. I could >> make some from the C++ I've been looking at. >> >> > ah.. python. yes, i hate their choice of using white space as part of > language syntax. > That is really retarded choice. > Slurring the off-side rule <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-side_rule>with "retarded" is simply childish. I should declare that I knew and admired the inventor of the off-side rule, Peter Landin, for quite a few years at Queen Mary. And a more intelligent man you couldn't hope to meet. The off-side rule is a considered design, it is used by lots of languages, especially those in the functional tradition (e.g. Haskell and Curry), it is simple and elegant, and for people brought up in that tradition I'm sure it seems extremely natural. Like Smalltalk, these languages are concise, having a minimal ammount of supporting syntax for declarations. The off-side rule means no open and close braces, and what a field of disagreement over code aesthetics that eliminates. "retarded"? Come on, how about some thought and criticism? > And actually the roots of my disdain of it is same why i prefer > proportional fonts: > i like text, where white space is variable and not fixed, and used to make > the text more readable, > and ergonomically fit within its boundaries (like in newspaper column). > But that doesn't militate against the off-side rule (which doesn't have to be based on space count, or assuming tab with is 8, or..., simply needs to be based on the clear appearance of indentation, and there are presumably implementation choices there). > If for people it would be easier to read text printed with monospaced > font, then it would be like that > long before first computer display appear in the world. > Therefore, the whole idea that monospaced font is more readable is moot. > Agreed. > I could justify such choice if we would have certain technical limitations > (of the past), which forcing us to use > less memory and text terminals.. but we're not.. > Agreed. And please forgive my outburst the other day. > > We need to be the best open source Smalltalk-like experience. And not be >> constrained to other languages/editors/environments constraints and views >> on the world. >> >> So those who choose to advocate for a change. Advocate. Make the sale. >> Or else lets not make the change. >> >> Jimmie >> > -- best, Eliot

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] [ann] system attraction view

by Serge Stinckwich

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > It would be great to have a domain specific force based layout. > > For example, if you want to connect methods with their defining classes, and have many classes on screen. It is more important to have a strong repulsion between the classes, than having the methods of a class repulsing from methods from another class. I like the idea, but what do you mean by domain-specific ? Do you want to visualize something else than software ? -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] MorpgTreeMorph enable/disable?

by Esteban Lorenzano

cool! thank you very much :) On Oct 16, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > done. > a slice is in inbox > Cheers > Alain > > On 15 oct. 2013, at 20:14, plantec <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Hi Esteban, >> >> Le 15 oct. 2013 Ã 18:30, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I'm working with MorphTreeMorph and I need to toggle enable/disable... and as far as I see is not implemented. >>> Any idea how can I do it? >> >> I will have a look >> cheers >> Alain >> >> >> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Esteban >> >> > >

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] MorpgTreeMorph enable/disable?

by Alain Plantec

done. a slice is in inbox Cheers Alain On 15 oct. 2013, at 20:14, plantec <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi Esteban, > > Le 15 oct. 2013 Ã 18:30, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > >> Hi, >> >> I'm working with MorphTreeMorph and I need to toggle enable/disable... and as far as I see is not implemented. >> Any idea how can I do it? > > I will have a look > cheers > Alain > > > >> >> Thanks, >> Esteban > >

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

by dimitris chloupis

Dont understand the point you try to make. Using Blender settings is like the first thing you will do , to use Blender or any 3d app. I have used blender on 9'' netbook with super slow cpu. You can use it without numpad.Â I repeat 3d apps dont care and should not care about beginners. What a beginner thinks about the GUI of a 3d app, just does not matter. If he does not feel lost then he does not use a 3d app. There is no way to produce a begineer friendly GUI for a 3d app as it would be for iPhone , or iPad apps. The future set is just insanely huge to do so. Also its a bad idea because you will need a complex GUI anyway to do even the most basic 3d art.Â If you want to do very basic 3d art then you should use apps specializing on such thing and definitely not Blender. Â Blender has a very impressive GUI , but in the end is like operating Star Ship Enterprise without the help of its onboard AI computer. Thats the price of photorealism. If you are not willing to take on that kind of complexity then you are not cut out for 3d app. Maya and 3d Studio Max which have the monopoly in 3d apps are far more ugly and far less usable than Blender. Â Â 3d is so complex that most 3d artists specialize on specific areas. This is why I think they have the most demanding GUIs in software.Â Wasted space ? Where ? Blender GUI is scalable , customisable., dockable , drag and dropable They have recently implemented also retina support and there are on going ports for android and iOS. Blender GUI is one of the first full blown OpenGL guis and is lighting fast. Blender GUI also supports flow based coding, using nodes and recently custom nodes have been implemented allowing any python script to be visualised as nodes inside blender.Â Â I can go on for days on its feature set. Â Its just huge and very well thought out. Does it beat Softimage ? Nope Softimage is still the King. But definitely beats behemoths as 3ds MAX and Maya that have big issues with their guis.Â No idea why you don't find it impressive, you should.Â On Wednesday, 16 October 2013, 17:40, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: Le 16/10/2013 15:05, dimitris chloupis a Ã©crit : > > Blender also has very nice GUI, used to be awful at it, but a few years > ago they committed the biggest Coding Sin, they rewrote the software and > old GUI was thrown away. Its no Softimage but its a good example none > the less. Definitely much better than Pharo. Hum. I'm utterly lost in the Blender GUI. The fact I'm trying it on a netbook with a 11"6 screen and no keypad has probably something to do with it: you can't even use it without going into the options and remapping the keyboard shortcuts... And all that wasted space! So count me as not impressed by that GUI. Maybe as a good power user GUI, for someone who has a 30" display, a full size keyboard, a mouse and invested the time to learn it. The GUI that accomodates beginners and power user on a highly complex system is a rare beast indeed :( However, like the dark theme discussion, it shows something of interest for Pharo: egoistic applications which takes over a full screen with their own selfish look and feel are perfectly fine :):) Thierry -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec error

by Sean P. DeNigris

Benjamin Van Ryseghem-2 wrote > Without further information, I can not do much more I sent #openDialogWithSpec, and the offending symbol is #DialogWindowSpec ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Spec-error-tp4714069p4715018.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old Compiler is now unload able!

by Sean P. DeNigris

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote > Well said! Indeed :) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Old-Compiler-is-now-unload-able-tp4714845p4715017.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] https://pharo.fogbugz.com ??

by Sean P. DeNigris

abergel wrote > How can I create a login on https://pharo.fogbugz.com ? > I have created a login on bugs.pharo.org. I am not sure how does this > differ from the fogbugz... The login you created should work for fogbugz. Now that we have a permalink to the registration page, I've added it to the fogbugz welcome page. HTH ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/https-pharo-fogbugz-com-tp4714366p4715016.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Color is strange

by Camillo Bruni

haltOnce :) On 2013-10-16, at 16:53, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > put a halt > > XD > > Ben > > On Oct 16, 2013, at 4:49 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> I wonder if this is me that miss something importantâ¦ but here is what I did: >> >> Color>>printOn: aStream >> | name | >> Transcript show:'x'. >> (name := self name) ifNotNil: >> [ ^ aStream >> nextPutAll: 'Color '; >> nextPutAll: name ]. >> self storeOn: aStream >> >> >> then I type >> >> 1 makeAnError and execute it. >> >> and in the transcript I get >> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSmallInteger >> >> I'm totally puzzled why would we printOn: color ? before even opening a browser. >> >> stef >

Oct. 16, 2013