October 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] missing updates: 30503 30504

by Camillo Bruni

>> It is fundamentally wrong to rely on written description of processes (not to be confused with documentation). We script, we >> write code, we do not read prose. > > Sorry but the integration requires human intervention at least to make sure we do not merge bullshits or checking conflicts just before. > Right now this is like that. Then even a script should be commented and documented. When I read you, you give the impression to > the rest of the world that we are idiots doing everything manually. But this is not the case. We are doing only 2%: checking conflicts, > writing the log and closing the bugs. Of course we should continue and make it fully automate. Which is something we solved with Ben 2 years ago. It did not do everything automatically, but as much as you can: - it list the issues that can be integrated - it lets you select the issues to be integrated - it shows the diff of the integrated changes - it triggers a new update cycle That means, not more manually copying over issue descriptions, no more manually closing issues. I guess it doesn't work anymore since nobody used it since then, but that is definitely something that should be taken care of. > To me the bottleneck is that the process is not concurrent and that conflicts are not automatically detected once we qualify a fix > as ready to include. Since another changes can be made in parallel we can have conflict and it means that the automated approach > should recheck all the pending fixes to make sure that none of them got into conflict since the last integration. This is exactly how the monkey works. it checks for each release again if all the pending fixes integrate cleanly. For each check it will add a tag, [validated in 30xxx]. >> And the scriptloader comment is, and never was complete either, since it excluded the >> interaction on the bug tracker. Issues have to be closed after integrating them, well >> marcus did that job yesterday, but this has to be done automatically in the integration process. > > Indeed but instead of getting on your favorite topic, tell me where is the update.list? > So that I can edit it. => see further down, it is here: http://files.pharo.org/updates/pharo3.0/ > I do not understand why it is not in the pharo-update folder Because it is generated, you do not touch it. Look at it some sort of code duplication. And furthermore it is separated into two parts, staged updates (which are not public) and the public updates (updates.list). If the staged updates fail, the updates.list never even gets modified, hence you do not have to manually edit it. This is far less error prone than the previous update process and requires almost never a manual retraction of an update, since it never even gets released when the update doesn't work. So all in all less work. > Because any scripted actions should also support full rollback and so far I cannot rollback > a change even manually because I do not know where this file is and how I can edit it. > > This comment does not help. - it tells you exactly where the file is(answering your above question): http://files.pharo.org/updates/pharo3.0/ - again forwarding to the proper jenkins jobs from files.pharo.org - it also tells you where the file is generated: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-3.0-Update-Step-3-Release/ So the next step is to read the description of the jenkins jobs: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-3.0-Update-Step-0-Prepare/ https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-3.0-Update-Step-1-Tracker/ ... and so forth, Unlike what you say, it is properly documented, not centralized, but in all places where the things happen. I really wonder what is missing. Yes, there are some dangling links on jenkins since the update process go recently modified, but these are things that happen.

Oct. 21, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Character>>#leadingChar

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

What would be the possible steps? Stef On Oct 21, 2013, at 9:26 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Phil, > > On 21 Oct 2013, at 21:09, "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > >> Well, for one, removing leadingChar will make the urlEncode/urlDecode work properly for the test, as now, the leadingChar thing prevents it. > > Read my last comment in https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/6368/deprecate-unescapePercents-and-encod… > > I rewrote the test without the language environment stuff, it should pass. > >> As it is now, leadingChar generates a code point outside of the unicode range, making leadingChar a non supportable element. >> >> Let's get that out. > > Yes, longer term I think we should indeed remove it. > >> Phil > > Sven > >

Oct. 21, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Character>>#leadingChar

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Phil, On 21 Oct 2013, at 21:09, "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > Well, for one, removing leadingChar will make the urlEncode/urlDecode work properly for the test, as now, the leadingChar thing prevents it. Read my last comment in https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/6368/deprecate-unescapePercents-and-encod… I rewrote the test without the language environment stuff, it should pass. > As it is now, leadingChar generates a code point outside of the unicode range, making leadingChar a non supportable element. > > Let's get that out. Yes, longer term I think we should indeed remove it. > Phil Sven

Oct. 21, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] missing updates: 30503 30504

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> probably >> But there is no documentation (except what I wrote in ScriptLoader comment), so I cannot guess. > > I just don't like that all of a sudden things go wild without an announcement, what is going wild? > and > by chance I detect it, since I monitor all channels... > >>> We really need to invest a couple of sprints in creating an integration UI, >>> ben and I started this 2 years ago and it lies dormant since then. The current >>> way is just too brittleâ¦ >> >> And we added more complexity to it. > > The point is that the integration process is not automated. > It might be more complex now, but that's how far we can get with INRIA infrastructure. > So the only thing we can do, since we will never have direct access to the file server, > and I think this is better that way, is to automate the integration process as much as > possible. Yes of course. Now if the loader pop ups a stupid dialog in the middle then you get into trouble and previously the solution was based on manual actions. Now we can automate it too. So my change is a progress in the right direction. And it does not have any impact on other people: only help me, marcus and esteban. > As I said, we wrote a UI with ben together 2 years ago that does the whole integration > without relying one some written specification. which written specification are you talking about? Ah you mean a class comment. I can easily remove it if it hurts you :). > It is fundamentally wrong to rely on written description of processes (not to be confused with documentation). We script, we > write code, we do not read prose. Sorry but the integration requires human intervention at least to make sure we do not merge bullshits or checking conflicts just before. Right now this is like that. Then even a script should be commented and documented. When I read you, you give the impression to the rest of the world that we are idiots doing everything manually. But this is not the case. We are doing only 2%: checking conflicts, writing the log and closing the bugs. Of course we should continue and make it fully automate. Now without my change, you can try to load a package on the server in headless mode with a dirty package and you will see that it will not work. To me the bottleneck is that the process is not concurrent and that conflicts are not automatically detected once we qualify a fix as ready to include. Since another changes can be made in parallel we can have conflict and it means that the automated approach should recheck all the pending fixes to make sure that none of them got into conflict since the last integration. > And the scriptloader comment is, and never was complete either, since it excluded the > interaction on the bug tracker. Issues have to be closed after integrating them, well > marcus did that job yesterday, but this has to be done automatically in the integration process. Indeed but instead of getting on your favorite topic, tell me where is the update.list? So that I can edit it. I do not understand why it is not in the pharo-update folder Because any scripted actions should also support full rollback and so far I cannot rollback a change even manually because I do not know where this file is and how I can edit it. This comment does not help. Pharo 3.0 Update Files ====================== This repository contains a collection of the updates files used for the system-updates of Pharo 3.0. The files are made available on the [file server](http://files.pharo.org/updates/pharo3.0/). The [updates30.list](updates30.list) is contains a list of all update files and is generated by a [jenkins job](https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-3.0-Update-Step-3-Release/). Do not touch these files manually if you do not know what you are doing. Read the class comments of the `ScriptLoader` class for a complete description of the Pharo integration process. Stef

Oct. 21, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] WhatsUp from: 2013-10-21 until: 2013-10-31

by phil＠highoctane.be

Log and Authomatic Method Categorizer: sweet!

Oct. 21, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Character>>#leadingChar

by phil＠highoctane.be

Well, for one, removing leadingChar will make the urlEncode/urlDecode work properly for the test, as now, the leadingChar thing prevents it. As it is now, leadingChar generates a code point outside of the unicode range, making leadingChar a non supportable element. Let's get that out. Phil

Oct. 21, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] Class AthensCairoSurface missing in Athens Version 2.5?

by Alexandre Bergel

True, I've tried with Pharo 3.0 and it works fine. Really strange... the class AthensCairoSurface is loaded Alexandre On Oct 21, 2013, at 6:31 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Moose is in Pharo 20! > Igor is talking about Pharo30 > Stef > > On Oct 21, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > >> Not sure whether I do the right thing. >> >> In a fresh Moose image, I doit: >> Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Athens'; package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadDevelopment >> >> then executing: AthensCairoSurfaceExamples exampleInterop >> raises an error => AthensCairoSurface not found >> >> Alexandre >> >> On Oct 21, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Yes, i just checked, it loads fine in latest image, >>> though, there are some unmerged stuff (no idea why) while loading, i just pressed 'load' >>> >>> ConfigurationOfAthens loadDevelopment >>> >>> AthensCairoSurfaceExamples exampleInterop >>> working fine to me. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 21 October 2013 13:34, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>> Any update? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On Oct 20, 2013, at 3:27 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 20 October 2013 15:03, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>>> hi! >>>> >>>> Apparently this class is not present in Version 2.5. >>>> The example is broken because of this apparently: >>>> AthensCairoSurfaceExamples exampleInterop >>>> => error >>>> >>>> Any idea what's going on? >>>> >>>> >>>> Error in Configuration? >>>> I will check loading it in fresh image. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Igor Stasenko. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Oct. 21, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] missing updates: 30503 30504

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-10-21, at 18:41, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Oct 21, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> What happened with those updates? > > there was a problem because the packages were dirty and we got a popup on the serverâ¦. > so we could not integrate simply their saved versions. > >> Why are there no images? > > see above. > I could not understand (I could not find and edit the updates.list to remove them) > This is not documented!!!!!!!!!! > > >> If something like this happens, the git exporter needs to be properly reset, >> otherwise we don't have consecutive numbers :/ > > probably > But there is no documentation (except what I wrote in ScriptLoader comment), so I cannot guess. I just don't like that all of a sudden things go wild without an announcement, and by chance I detect it, since I monitor all channels... >> We really need to invest a couple of sprints in creating an integration UI, >> ben and I started this 2 years ago and it lies dormant since then. The current >> way is just too brittleâ¦ > > And we added more complexity to it. The point is that the integration process is not automated. It might be more complex now, but that's how far we can get with INRIA infrastructure. So the only thing we can do, since we will never have direct access to the file server, and I think this is better that way, is to automate the integration process as much as possible. As I said, we wrote a UI with ben together 2 years ago that does the whole integration without relying one some written specification. It is fundamentally wrong to rely on written description of processes (not to be confused with documentation). We script, we write code, we do not read prose. And the scriptloader comment is, and never was complete either, since it excluded the interaction on the bug tracker. Issues have to be closed after integrating them, well marcus did that job yesterday, but this has to be done automatically in the integration process.

Oct. 21, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] missing updates: 30503 30504

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Oct 21, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > What happened with those updates? there was a problem because the packages were dirty and we got a popup on the serverâ¦. so we could not integrate simply their saved versions. > Why are there no images? see above. I could not understand (I could not find and edit the updates.list to remove them) This is not documented!!!!!!!!!! > If something like this happens, the git exporter needs to be properly reset, > otherwise we don't have consecutive numbers :/ probably But there is no documentation (except what I wrote in ScriptLoader comment), so I cannot guess. > We really need to invest a couple of sprints in creating an integration UI, > ben and I started this 2 years ago and it lies dormant since then. The current > way is just too brittleâ¦ And we added more complexity to it. Two years ago I knew where the updates.list file was stored. Not anymore. I could not find it in Pharo-update. So yes THIS IS FRUSTRATING. I spent two hours two integrate two packages and 3 methods! I'm probably an idiot. Stef PS: now scriptLoader will load without warning packages on dirty packages.

Oct. 21, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] WhatsUp from: 2013-10-21 until: 2013-10-31

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > > ### Here's what I've been up to since the last WhatsUp: > > - $HEROIC_ACHIEVEMENTS_OR_DISMAL_FAILURES_OR_SIMPLE_BORING_NECESSARY_TASKS > > ### What's next, until 2013-10-31 (*): Got stuck on - log System (should add filtering + release it + doc) - snapshotcello (should handle private projects) - automatic method categorizer (should release it) Started to work on configurationOfs for Pharo image - ConfigurationOfRB is now working. - Could unload RB :) - Now working again on Nautilus one. Finished > - $NEXT_STEPS_TOWARDS_WORLD_DOMINATION > > (*) we'll be expecting results by then ;) - should extend people (contributors/consultants to add PharoTopics of master)

Oct. 21, 2013