January 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: Problem installing Neptuno

by Frank Church

Is the new system in some way related to what is discussed in this article - http://swiki.krampe.se/gohu/32 ? On 15 January 2013 08:27, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Frank, > > the problem is that Pharo is a community effort, and there are so much projects around that we cannot track down all the packages (but we are working on a "validator" for metacello to ensure the packages at least load). Eventually, that provokes some incompatibilities... but if you think is just because we are disordered, take a look of what happens in other communities (python, ruby, java, all of them I know have similar problems with their products). > > I understand your frustration, and we are trying to improve a lot, but a correct publishing mechanism will take some time and effort to come. > In the mean time, I just can ask for your understanding and collaboration. > > Pharo 2.0, btw, will allow shadow variables (same name of variables in different classes, in same hierarchy, or same variable name between an instance variable and a method variable), a decision that also has some consequences, but that will allow this kind of conflicts to load without problems (to actually run, that's another story :) > > cheers, > Esteban > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 4:01 AM, Frank Church <vfclists(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Is it okay for me to say that something isn't right here? >> >> The way I see it if something in Neptuno ie GLMTreeMorphModel is going >> to be in conflict with MorphTreeModel, then it shouldn't even released >> in the first place or clearly marked as a work in progress. >> MorphTreeModel appoears to be quite high up the Smalltalk environment >> hierarchy. Unless the change which caused the conflict was caused by >> introducing a method in MorphTreeModel "after" it was developed in >> Glamour which doesn't appear to the case. >> >> Which raises a few questions: >> >> 1. When a new version of Pharo is released, is there a set of >> packages with specified versions which are supposed to work perfectly >> with that Pharo release? >> >> 2. When a packaged is created is the creator required to list the >> exact base release and the combination of packages it is tested >> against, eg Pharo 1.4-14557? >> >> I am not saying this with regards to Neptuno in particular because the >> conflict seems to come from Glamour, there is also another "announcer" >> method in DBXBrowser but it appears the one in GLMTreeMorphModel is >> the culprit. After trying what I can truthfully describe as an >> amateurish attempt to refactor the "announcer" method even the Finder >> is broken. Basically I changed "announcer" to "announcerGLM" and the >> Finder breaks with MNU:False>>announce and I can't revert it. >> >> It doesn't feel right to me that search an important element in the >> IDE should be broken by something lower down the hierarchy. I will try >> it on earlier versions of Pharo to see. >> >> On starting with Pharo I have had to switch among different versions >> to get the demos working properly, but this name(space) clash is >> simply too jarring >> On 14 January 2013 19:46, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> yes, but that means it is present twice in the hierarchy, after loading you can check when it corresponds actually and re-add announcer in MorphTreeModel, rename the one in Neptuno... and commit the fix for Neptuno to the repository... is all community work so feel free to do it :) >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:39 PM, Frank Church <vfclists(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> If "announcer" is removed from MorphTreeModel isn't that likely to >>>> break something else that depends on "announcer" being present in >>>> MorphTreeModel? >>>> >>>> Is "announcer" something new in MorphTreeModel and is Neptuno >>>> duplicating the function or is it the other round? MorphTreeModel >>>> seems to be the UI object and it doesn't feel right to me that a >>>> database oriented tool should override something in a UI object. I >>>> think if the functionality is duplicated it may be better to rename >>>> the "announcer" in Neptuno. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 14 January 2013 16:00, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> that's because somethings on morphic were added for 1.4 summer. >>>>> Try removing "announcer" on MorphTreeModel, then load. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 14, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Frank Church <vfclists(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone managed to get Neptuno - ConfigurationOfDBXTools in Pharo 1.4?. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I try to install Neptuno in Pharo 1.4 I get the error - >>>>>> 'announcer is already defined in MorphTreeModel' >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>> From: Frank Church <vfclists(a)gmail.com> >>>>>> Date: 14 January 2013 01:05 >>>>>> Subject: Problem installing Neptuno >>>>>> To: A friendly place where any question about pharo is welcome >>>>>> <pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> When I try to install Neptuno in Pharo 1.4 I get the error - >>>>>> 'announcer is already defined in MorphTreeModel' >>>>>> >>>>>> Gofer it >>>>>> squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; >>>>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfDBXTools'; >>>>>> load. >>>>>> >>>>>> (((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfDBXTools) >>>>>> perform: #project) >>>>>> perform: #version: with: #stable) >>>>>> load: 'Phoseydon'. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gofer it >>>>>> squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; >>>>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfDBXBrowser'; >>>>>> load. >>>>>> >>>>>> (((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfDBXTools) >>>>>> perform: #project) >>>>>> perform: #version: with: #stable) >>>>>> load: 'Neptuno' . >>>>>> >>>>>> The error happens at the last stage when I am installing Neptuno. >>>>>> >>>>>> The issue appears in the DBXTalk mailing list - >>>>>> http://forum.world.st/Re-Pharo-project-How-to-load-Phoseydon-and-Neptuno-td… >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Frank Church >> >> >> -- >> Frank Church >> >> ======================= >> http://devblog.brahmancreations.com >> > > -- Frank Church ======================= http://devblog.brahmancreations.com

Jan. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: Problem installing Neptuno

by Frank Church

Thanks for the heads up. Is there a way to load Glamour independently and suppress the one packaged with Phoseydon and Neptuno. On 15 January 2013 08:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi Frank, > > GLMTreeMorphModel does not have announcer since a long time. You should > probably update your code. Furthermore, the latest version of Glamour is > made to work with Pharo 1.4. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 4:01 AM, Frank Church <vfclists(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Is it okay for me to say that something isn't right here? >> >> The way I see it if something in Neptuno ie GLMTreeMorphModel is going >> to be in conflict with MorphTreeModel, then it shouldn't even released >> in the first place or clearly marked as a work in progress. >> MorphTreeModel appoears to be quite high up the Smalltalk environment >> hierarchy. Unless the change which caused the conflict was caused by >> introducing a method in MorphTreeModel "after" it was developed in >> Glamour which doesn't appear to the case. >> >> Which raises a few questions: >> >> 1. When a new version of Pharo is released, is there a set of >> packages with specified versions which are supposed to work perfectly >> with that Pharo release? >> >> 2. When a packaged is created is the creator required to list the >> exact base release and the combination of packages it is tested >> against, eg Pharo 1.4-14557? >> >> I am not saying this with regards to Neptuno in particular because the >> conflict seems to come from Glamour, there is also another "announcer" >> method in DBXBrowser but it appears the one in GLMTreeMorphModel is >> the culprit. After trying what I can truthfully describe as an >> amateurish attempt to refactor the "announcer" method even the Finder >> is broken. Basically I changed "announcer" to "announcerGLM" and the >> Finder breaks with MNU:False>>announce and I can't revert it. >> >> It doesn't feel right to me that search an important element in the >> IDE should be broken by something lower down the hierarchy. I will try >> it on earlier versions of Pharo to see. >> >> On starting with Pharo I have had to switch among different versions >> to get the demos working properly, but this name(space) clash is >> simply too jarring >> On 14 January 2013 19:46, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > yes, but that means it is present twice in the hierarchy, after loading >> > you can check when it corresponds actually and re-add announcer in >> > MorphTreeModel, rename the one in Neptuno... and commit the fix for Neptuno >> > to the repository... is all community work so feel free to do it :) >> > >> > Esteban >> > >> > On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:39 PM, Frank Church <vfclists(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> If "announcer" is removed from MorphTreeModel isn't that likely to >> >> break something else that depends on "announcer" being present in >> >> MorphTreeModel? >> >> >> >> Is "announcer" something new in MorphTreeModel and is Neptuno >> >> duplicating the function or is it the other round? MorphTreeModel >> >> seems to be the UI object and it doesn't feel right to me that a >> >> database oriented tool should override something in a UI object. I >> >> think if the functionality is duplicated it may be better to rename >> >> the "announcer" in Neptuno. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 14 January 2013 16:00, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >>> that's because somethings on morphic were added for 1.4 summer. >> >>> Try removing "announcer" on MorphTreeModel, then load. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Jan 14, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Frank Church <vfclists(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Has anyone managed to get Neptuno - ConfigurationOfDBXTools in Pharo >> >>>> 1.4?. >> >>>> >> >>>> When I try to install Neptuno in Pharo 1.4 I get the error - >> >>>> 'announcer is already defined in MorphTreeModel' >> >>>> >> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> >>>> From: Frank Church <vfclists(a)gmail.com> >> >>>> Date: 14 January 2013 01:05 >> >>>> Subject: Problem installing Neptuno >> >>>> To: A friendly place where any question about pharo is welcome >> >>>> <pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> When I try to install Neptuno in Pharo 1.4 I get the error - >> >>>> 'announcer is already defined in MorphTreeModel' >> >>>> >> >>>> Gofer it >> >>>> squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; >> >>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfDBXTools'; >> >>>> load. >> >>>> >> >>>> (((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfDBXTools) >> >>>> perform: #project) >> >>>> perform: #version: with: #stable) >> >>>> load: 'Phoseydon'. >> >>>> >> >>>> Gofer it >> >>>> squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; >> >>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfDBXBrowser'; >> >>>> load. >> >>>> >> >>>> (((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfDBXTools) >> >>>> perform: #project) >> >>>> perform: #version: with: #stable) >> >>>> load: 'Neptuno' . >> >>>> >> >>>> The error happens at the last stage when I am installing Neptuno. >> >>>> >> >>>> The issue appears in the DBXTalk mailing list - >> >>>> >> >>>> http://forum.world.st/Re-Pharo-project-How-to-load-Phoseydon-and-Neptuno-td… >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Frank Church >> >> >> -- >> Frank Church >> >> ======================= >> http://devblog.brahmancreations.com >> > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" -- Frank Church ======================= http://devblog.brahmancreations.com

Jan. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] In Memory of Andreas Raab

by Frank Church

Despite not knowing him personally his name appears a lot in the Squeak mailing lists and in a lot of packages. When I saw this message I thought he passed away earlier and this post was to commemorate the event, not knowing that it was all so sudden. I am sure I will miss his presence and any contributions he would have made if we was still present with us. My condolences to his family. Sincerely Frank Church ======================= http://devblog.brahmancreations.com

Jan. 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalkhub project deletion

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> On 15 January 2013 15:43, Nicolas Petton <petton.nicolas(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I won't mess with the prod db, but thanks anyway ;) >> > you should reconsider. Messing with prod db is one of the most funnier things :) lol you made me laugh a lot. Stef

Jan. 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalkhub project deletion

by Norbert Hartl

Am 15.01.2013 um 21:42 schrieb Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: > On 15 January 2013 15:43, Nicolas Petton <petton.nicolas(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I won't mess with the prod db, but thanks anyway ;) >> > you should reconsider. Messing with prod db is one of the most funnier things :) > Unless have to maintain it :) Norbert > >> Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> writes: >> >>> BTW you can mess with the 'p' repository, I created a new 'p4' where I copy all the files for now :) >>> >>> >>> On 2013-01-15, at 15:37, Nicolas Petton <petton.nicolas(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Nope, this is not supposed to work this way :) >>>> I'll see what's wrong. >>>> >>>> Nico >>>> >>>> Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> writes: >>>> >>>>> I just tried to delete my project to wipe out all versions, but it looks like >>>>> that the versions all re-appear after you create a new project with the same name >>>>> as the old one. >>>>> >>>>> Is that on purpose? >>>>> >>>>> best >>>>> cami >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Nicolas Petton >>>> http://nicolas-petton.fr >>>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Nicolas Petton >> http://nicolas-petton.fr >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Jan. 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalkhub project deletion

by Igor Stasenko

On 15 January 2013 15:43, Nicolas Petton <petton.nicolas(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I won't mess with the prod db, but thanks anyway ;) > you should reconsider. Messing with prod db is one of the most funnier things :) > Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> writes: > >> BTW you can mess with the 'p' repository, I created a new 'p4' where I copy all the files for now :) >> >> >> On 2013-01-15, at 15:37, Nicolas Petton <petton.nicolas(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Nope, this is not supposed to work this way :) >>> I'll see what's wrong. >>> >>> Nico >>> >>> Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> writes: >>> >>>> I just tried to delete my project to wipe out all versions, but it looks like >>>> that the versions all re-appear after you create a new project with the same name >>>> as the old one. >>>> >>>> Is that on purpose? >>>> >>>> best >>>> cami >>> >>> -- >>> Nicolas Petton >>> http://nicolas-petton.fr >>> >> >> > > -- > Nicolas Petton > http://nicolas-petton.fr > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Class initialisation after loading

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:05, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > On 14 Jan 2013, at 09:38, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > >> Am 14.01.2013 um 09:24 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >> >>> On 14 Jan 2013, at 09:09, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> >>>> Am 14.01.2013 um 07:54 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >>>> >>>>> Morning, Norbert, >>>>> >>>>> On 14 Jan 2013, at 07:44, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As for every other objects initialize is called when the object is created. Upgrading code might change the shape of the object but then there is no initialize call. Do you want to have initialize called every tiny code change? >>>>>> Using *cello you can use postLoadDoits to tweak stuff. >>>>> >>>>> You mean that, in your opinion, making sure that the #initialize is called in every scenario (new/existing class) can only be done with an explicit action ? >>>> >>>> I think that the primary purpose is to initialize newly created space. In case of shape change this doesn't happen. So taking the example you initialize e.g. an instvar with a collection. Do you want to reinitialize it even if you corrected a typo in the comment of a method? >>>> If I wanted to have control over those things I would on class initialization register a class of mine to the local change notification system in the image. But this isn't easy to do in a cross platform manner. Maybe there are better ways. I'm sure someone will speak up then. >>> >>> Let's make it more concrete. Zinc-Resource-Meta-Core is a package that among other thins contains ZnMimeType. ZnMimeType class>>initialize sets up some constants (lists of known mime types, file extension to mime type mappings, you get the idea). When I add new constants in a new source version, I want them to be added when doing an automated CI build, obviously. Right now, this does *not* happen, probably because the class and #initialize method already exist in the image where it is being load in. >> >> I understand. The problem is introduced by having a cache of those mime types. That is often a problem because the cache is designed as infinite valid but there is a use case that needs a little less infinite :) I think it depends how often that "adding" takes place. And it seems to me it does not occur very often. Apart from that cache invalidation is one of the more unpleasant things we face. If you want your cache to update you need to check something. But that is what you want to avoid for performance reasons. >> So I would see a postLoadIt for these rare jobs is a good match. > > Thanks for the discussion, Norbert, I still feel that in most cases, when loading code, or when building new images, I want the class initializers of loaded classes to run to make sure everything is in a known, up to date state. Loading code or building images does not happen a lot and it feels strange to load something but not have it initialized. > > We'll see if somebody else has anything to say about this. In a private email conversation, Lukas Renggli helped me out. This is what I learned, in my words: It is indeed so that after a Monticello load, a class initializer is only run for totally new classes or when the source code string of the class #initialize method coming in is different from the one already present. So adding/changing a comment or whitespace is all that is needed to force it to run. See, apparently, MCMethodDefinition>>#postloadOver: Now, this Zinc build based on Pharo 1.3 is all green again: http://jenkins.lukas-renggli.ch/job/Zinc/ I learned something important that was bugging me for some time. Sven >>> Indeed, you would not always want costly initializations to run, but there should at least be a hook to do it, no ? >>> >>>>>> Am 14.01.2013 um 07:20 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For a long time I have been having troubles with #initialize (not) being sent to classes that just got loaded. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apparently #initialize is only sent to *newly* loaded classes that did not exist before ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It does not get sent to existing classes being reloaded/overwritten ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does the fact that the #initialize class method itself gets overwritten (actually changes) have anything to do with it ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What would be the best practice here ? The most portable one ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I want to be able to make sure #initialize is sent when I want it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thx, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sven >>>>>>> >>>>>>> PS: I am looking for a solution that would work for Monticello package loading, via Gofer or Metacello as well as regular #fileIn. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Sven Van Caekenberghe >>>>>>> http://stfx.eu >>>>>>> Smalltalk is the Red Pill

Jan. 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] CI down?

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-01-15, at 20:10, "Sean P. DeNigris" <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Camillo Bruni-3 wrote >> and done! > > Thanks, Cami!! It looks like there are two newer versions on Jenkins... right, slightly messy everything :/, uploading those as well right now

Jan. 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Spreadsheet widget

by Hilaire Fernandes

It is a nice start. Hilaire Le 14/01/2013 22:22, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > Hi hilaire > > I updated a bit the code of Hans. > > - remove clone > - remove fractions:offset: to work in latest 2.0 > - postCopy should call super postCopy. > > > > SpreadsheetGridMorph new openInWorld > > > Open a new spreadsheet with "SpreadsheetGridMorph new openInWorld". > You can enter numbers into the cells, and you may enter rules (start > with "=", cell refs are written as A1, B1 etc). > Currently implemented are +-*/ operations. > The update machinery (which is the heart of a spreadsheet) works nicely. > > > > > > Would be good to publish the code somewhere. > > > Stef >

Jan. 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] CI down?

by Sean P. DeNigris

Camillo Bruni-3 wrote > and done! Thanks, Cami!! It looks like there are two newer versions on Jenkins... -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/CI-down-tp4659453p4663596.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 15, 2013