September 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] How to try Shapes and Gaucho?

by Fernando Olivero

Hi Denis, I'm actively working on Shapes/Gaucho, but not having the time to finally polish it to release has held me back in doing so. The repos are closed for now, until i release them. Shapes is not "production" ready, unless you are willing to work on it. Meaning that Gaucho is the sole user for now. It's much more simpler than using Morphic though(at the expense of loosing some features, which were never used by the way). What it gives you is: 1) Vector graphics, its based on Athens. 2) Customizable shapes using a kind of CSS. 3) Shapes always deal with a local coordinate system, no matter were they're placed in the top/down hierarchy within the scene 4) simpler Event handling based on message passing (instead of MorphicEvents), a reified display and peripherals, 5) An non-overlapping scheme, with snowplowing. 6) No GLOBALS, such as World & ActiveHand. 6) etc... What's preventing me from releasing it now, is that the MultipleLinesTextEditor based on Cairo/Pango isnt 100% finished, so you can type and edit multiple lines of text, and methods. I'm working on it. Fernando On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello > > ss3 repo for Shapes and Gaucho closed for reading or maybe empty. > So is it possible to get it somewhere? maybe there is prepared image? > > Actually I gather migrate our applications to last Pharo and use latest achievemens like fuel and tanker. > And of course I want vector graphics for user interface by athens. > And I very very excited about shapes which gives clean and powerfull morphic replacement (Am I right?) > > But to understand amount of work for such big changes I should see shapes livelly. I need code. > > Best regards, > Denis

Sept. 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: change n same words in browser with one action

by Sabine KnÃ¶fel

I agree with Igor and want to add, that a newbie will not be disturbed by shortcuts and can use the dialogs. It is the normal way, if you learn a new system, you get to know one thing after the other and someday, you get to know the shortcuts and they help to work faster. As you can see in the screenshot (left side), the feature is documented. At the right side you can see, that it is not implemented ;.) Perhaps it is possible to implement it in one of the next releases? On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Chris Muller <ma.chris.m(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> You should not expect that -- Pharo used to have it but it was removed > >> in favor of a more mainstream editor look-and-feel -- so that it be > >> would more attractive to new users. Command+J / Control+J are just > >> two of several powerful code-editing capabilities Pharo originally > >> inherited from Squeak, along with my other favorites Command+E = > >> Exchange the last two selections and Command+[, (, {, or | = Surround > >> the highlighted text with that bracket-type pair. (not sure if those > >> are still there in Pharo). > > > > Now what would be really cool is to have a documentation about all > > those, and make them easily > > discoverable. I worked with Squeak long enough, and didn't saw > > anything close to that. > > I said that it is 'command-g' instead 'command-j' exactly because of > > that, because you never know... > > And for me it was always felt like: > > - let user discover shortcuts by pressing random key combinations and > > see what happens. > > And then tell me, what are the chances that people will understand > > what exactly cmd-j does without > > reading documentation? In 99% of cases it will be 'oh.. what was just > happen' .. > > This is about "more attractive". > > And if you hiding knowledge behind sealed doors, don't be surprised > > that someone will come and build a new library with open doors, > > replacing yours. > > You didn't look hard enough -- it's under the "help" menu. Squeak 3.0 > is the earliest I have on my HD but.. yes, it was there then and its > still there now. Ok, I know you just forgot we miss you too Igor. ;) > > I admire Pharo blazing new trails but notice a pattern in some of the > "gold" feedback from Pharo customers which worth taking to heart. > Like: > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2012-May/064702.html > > > This is, what i think, happens with shortcuts changes in Pharo, except > > form those which was remapped. > > > >> Pharo favors _familiarity_ for new users somewhat at the cost of > >> productivity for its experienced users. It somewhat resembles eclipse > >> -- with pop-up dialogs and a seemingly "modal" philosophy. Squeak, by > >> constrast, has kept pushing the "simple-but-powerful" philosphy of its > >> IDE to near extremes. While it's less familiar for new uesrs, once > >> learned, general navigation and editing require _far fewer_ gestures. > >> > > Another thing, is that i first time hear that pharo is in favor of > > newcomers at expense of experienced users. > > I am not involved in changes to key bindings / shortcuts, but i doubt > > that people, who doing that, making changes having such strange aim. > > I think they are focused on making it good for newcomers and > > experienced users both. Otherwise i don't see much sense in doing this > > at all, and would be first who will be against it. > > Ok, glad to hear that. I would rather have the best system possible > than one with the most mainstream acceptance. >

Sept. 29, 2012

[Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: change n same words in browser with one action

by Chris Muller

>> You should not expect that -- Pharo used to have it but it was removed >> in favor of a more mainstream editor look-and-feel -- so that it be >> would more attractive to new users. Command+J / Control+J are just >> two of several powerful code-editing capabilities Pharo originally >> inherited from Squeak, along with my other favorites Command+E = >> Exchange the last two selections and Command+[, (, {, or | = Surround >> the highlighted text with that bracket-type pair. (not sure if those >> are still there in Pharo). > > Now what would be really cool is to have a documentation about all > those, and make them easily > discoverable. I worked with Squeak long enough, and didn't saw > anything close to that. > I said that it is 'command-g' instead 'command-j' exactly because of > that, because you never know... > And for me it was always felt like: > - let user discover shortcuts by pressing random key combinations and > see what happens. > And then tell me, what are the chances that people will understand > what exactly cmd-j does without > reading documentation? In 99% of cases it will be 'oh.. what was just happen' .. > This is about "more attractive". > And if you hiding knowledge behind sealed doors, don't be surprised > that someone will come and build a new library with open doors, > replacing yours. You didn't look hard enough -- it's under the "help" menu. Squeak 3.0 is the earliest I have on my HD but.. yes, it was there then and its still there now. Ok, I know you just forgot we miss you too Igor. ;) I admire Pharo blazing new trails but notice a pattern in some of the "gold" feedback from Pharo customers which worth taking to heart. Like: http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2012-May/064702.html > This is, what i think, happens with shortcuts changes in Pharo, except > form those which was remapped. > >> Pharo favors _familiarity_ for new users somewhat at the cost of >> productivity for its experienced users. It somewhat resembles eclipse >> -- with pop-up dialogs and a seemingly "modal" philosophy. Squeak, by >> constrast, has kept pushing the "simple-but-powerful" philosphy of its >> IDE to near extremes. While it's less familiar for new uesrs, once >> learned, general navigation and editing require _far fewer_ gestures. >> > Another thing, is that i first time hear that pharo is in favor of > newcomers at expense of experienced users. > I am not involved in changes to key bindings / shortcuts, but i doubt > that people, who doing that, making changes having such strange aim. > I think they are focused on making it good for newcomers and > experienced users both. Otherwise i don't see much sense in doing this > at all, and would be first who will be against it. Ok, glad to hear that. I would rather have the best system possible than one with the most mainstream acceptance.

Sept. 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: change n same words in browser with one action

by Chris Muller

> The community behind Pharo does not want modes in the UI! That's great to hear! My mistake. > Of course for power users, remembering tons of shortcuts might be > better (not for me though), but there are plans to add default and > customizable keybindings ( using the work of Guille Polito). The keybindings are already customizable since the code can be changed.

Sept. 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: change n same words in browser with one action

by Igor Stasenko

On 28 September 2012 21:40, Chris Muller <asqueaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> yes, exactly like this: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/900 >> >> Bert Freudenberg added the following: >> >> Tip: You do not have to perform a "find" for the "replace" to work. >> Just select a word you want to have replaced, overtype it with your >> new word, and hit (ctrl-j). Very handy for renaming variables. >> >> This would be perfect. > > You should not expect that -- Pharo used to have it but it was removed > in favor of a more mainstream editor look-and-feel -- so that it be > would more attractive to new users. Command+J / Control+J are just > two of several powerful code-editing capabilities Pharo originally > inherited from Squeak, along with my other favorites Command+E = > Exchange the last two selections and Command+[, (, {, or | = Surround > the highlighted text with that bracket-type pair. (not sure if those > are still there in Pharo). > Now what would be really cool is to have a documentation about all those, and make them easily discoverable. I worked with Squeak long enough, and didn't saw anything close to that. I said that it is 'command-g' instead 'command-j' exactly because of that, because you never know... And for me it was always felt like: - let user discover shortcuts by pressing random key combinations and see what happens. And then tell me, what are the chances that people will understand what exactly cmd-j does without reading documentation? In 99% of cases it will be 'oh.. what was just happen' .. This is about "more attractive". And if you hiding knowledge behind sealed doors, don't be surprised that someone will come and build a new library with open doors, replacing yours. This is, what i think, happens with shortcuts changes in Pharo, except form those which was remapped. > Pharo favors _familiarity_ for new users somewhat at the cost of > productivity for its experienced users. It somewhat resembles eclipse > -- with pop-up dialogs and a seemingly "modal" philosophy. Squeak, by > constrast, has kept pushing the "simple-but-powerful" philosphy of its > IDE to near extremes. While it's less familiar for new uesrs, once > learned, general navigation and editing require _far fewer_ gestures. > Another thing, is that i first time hear that pharo is in favor of newcomers at expense of experienced users. I am not involved in changes to key bindings / shortcuts, but i doubt that people, who doing that, making changes having such strange aim. I think they are focused on making it good for newcomers and experienced users both. Otherwise i don't see much sense in doing this at all, and would be first who will be against it. _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Sept. 29, 2012

[Pharo-project] How to try Shapes and Gaucho?

by Denis Kudriashov

Hello ss3 repo for Shapes and Gaucho closed for reading or maybe empty. So is it possible to get it somewhere? maybe there is prepared image? Actually I gather migrate our applications to last Pharo and use latest achievemens like fuel and tanker. And of course I want vector graphics for user interface by athens. And I very very excited about shapes which gives clean and powerfull morphic replacement (Am I right?) But to understand amount of work for such big changes I should see shapes livelly. I need code. Best regards, Denis

Sept. 28, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: change n same words in browser with one action

by Fernando Olivero

Hi, maybe in Pharo some of these keyboard shortcuts were removed (for now), but providing the same operations via pop-up menus doesn't make it a modal UI. One could argue that remembering and triggering keyboard shortcuts simply avoids showing the menu at all, at the expense of a big VI-like learning curve . The community behind Pharo does not want modes in the UI! Of course for power users, remembering tons of shortcuts might be better (not for me though), but there are plans to add default and customizable keybindings ( using the work of Guille Polito). Fernando On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 9:40 PM, Chris Muller <asqueaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> yes, exactly like this: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/900 >> >> Bert Freudenberg added the following: >> >> Tip: You do not have to perform a "find" for the "replace" to work. >> Just select a word you want to have replaced, overtype it with your >> new word, and hit (ctrl-j). Very handy for renaming variables. >> >> This would be perfect. > > You should not expect that -- Pharo used to have it but it was removed > in favor of a more mainstream editor look-and-feel -- so that it be > would more attractive to new users. Command+J / Control+J are just > two of several powerful code-editing capabilities Pharo originally > inherited from Squeak, along with my other favorites Command+E = > Exchange the last two selections and Command+[, (, {, or | = Surround > the highlighted text with that bracket-type pair. (not sure if those > are still there in Pharo). > > Pharo favors _familiarity_ for new users somewhat at the cost of > productivity for its experienced users. It somewhat resembles eclipse > -- with pop-up dialogs and a seemingly "modal" philosophy. Squeak, by > constrast, has kept pushing the "simple-but-powerful" philosphy of its > IDE to near extremes. While it's less familiar for new uesrs, once > learned, general navigation and editing require _far fewer_ gestures. >

Sept. 28, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: change n same words in browser with one action

by Chris Muller

> yes, exactly like this: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/900 > > Bert Freudenberg added the following: > > Tip: You do not have to perform a "find" for the "replace" to work. > Just select a word you want to have replaced, overtype it with your > new word, and hit (ctrl-j). Very handy for renaming variables. > > This would be perfect. You should not expect that -- Pharo used to have it but it was removed in favor of a more mainstream editor look-and-feel -- so that it be would more attractive to new users. Command+J / Control+J are just two of several powerful code-editing capabilities Pharo originally inherited from Squeak, along with my other favorites Command+E = Exchange the last two selections and Command+[, (, {, or | = Surround the highlighted text with that bracket-type pair. (not sure if those are still there in Pharo). Pharo favors _familiarity_ for new users somewhat at the cost of productivity for its experienced users. It somewhat resembles eclipse -- with pop-up dialogs and a seemingly "modal" philosophy. Squeak, by constrast, has kept pushing the "simple-but-powerful" philosphy of its IDE to near extremes. While it's less familiar for new uesrs, once learned, general navigation and editing require _far fewer_ gestures.

Sept. 28, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] change n same words in browser with one action

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

find -> replaceAll On Sep 28, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Sabine KnÃ¶fel wrote: > Hi, > > double clicking on one word in the SYSTEM browser (OBSystemBrowserAdaptor) > selects this word in one color and all other appearances of this wort in > another color. This is nice. Is there a possibility to change ALL the > occurences of this word in one action? I did noch find this feature yet. > > I do not mean the search and replace dialog - to many clicks while > developing. > > Greetings Sabine > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/change-n-same-words-in-browser-with-one-action-tp4649… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Sept. 28, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello bleedingEdge question

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

dale at the end do we really need latestVersion because I'm still confused by it. On Sep 28, 2012, at 3:42 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: > #latestVersion is defined as the latest version whose blessing is neither #baseline nor #development.

Sept. 28, 2012